What do you believe is the fundamental problem with [American] government?

What do you believe is the fundamental problem with [American] government?

  • I don't believe a government should exist. That society would be better off without

  • Poor creation/execution of legislation

  • Incompetence/Inability/Ineptitude

  • Corruption

  • The authority of government: Executive orders v. Addressing Congress

  • The size of the government: Big v. Small

  • Efficiency of government

  • Racism/sexism/classism/other/etc.

  • Capitalism*

  • Other

Results are only viewable after voting.
undercovergrow

undercovergrow

Well-Known Member
Grandpapy said:
What if one becomes poor because of lack of govt. intervention, is that not the tool of an outside source? Squeeze the local coffers cutting public services so Exxon can sell Iraq oil to China @ $2 bbl. and pay no tax.

Your govt. is taking care of you.
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people don't become poor because of outside intervention, they are poor and remain poor because of lack of personal intervention.
 
undercovergrow

undercovergrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You said about me:
"you assume that every woman that is single and has kids must be incompetent and unable to provide for herself"

What can I say? You accuse me of something I never said. From that statement you go on in a meaningless made up diatribe about what I "assume". Again, belief is not the same as fact. I don't assume what you say. So the rest of your statement is idle musing or BS, whichever you want.

The median individual income is about $35,000 per year.

me·di·an
ˈmēdēən/
adjective
  1. denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it.
Half the workers in this country have an income that is less than the median income of $35,000. If somebody gets a better job, then good for them. It doesn't change the fact that more than half the country still can't afford to purchase health care coverage, something that is necessary to make it in this economy. If you believe that people "should" pay for their own then what do you suggest we do? I can think of several options How about a minimum wage that is high enough for the necessities of life such as health care coverage. If you don't like that option then tell me what you suggest is possible that we do? Cut the morality crap and give me a solution.
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why don't you cut the morality high horse you are on and give me a solution? each person is responsible for the choices they make in life. if you don't get good grades in middle school to build a good foundation for high school and be able to go to college, then you've made poor choices that are affecting how you're able to live today. you keep assuming what i think without necessarily knowing just based off of a few comments that i've made -- mostly that the fundamental problem with the government is corruption. you seem to be on a rant to show that socialism is the way to go and since i don't believe that, i must be ignorant or less than you... i don't want to argue with you. i just don't want the government to get bigger, i don't want to pay more taxes, etc., i don't want people to live in poverty. i would love to see people being able to get jobs that can pay enough that they can live on but we need to keep a capitalist approach for this nation to survive. having the government tell us they can fix all these problems for all these past presidents is getting kind of old, isn't it?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
undercovergrow said:
why don't you cut the morality high horse you are on and give me a solution? each person is responsible for the choices they make in life. if you don't get good grades in middle school to build a good foundation for high school and be able to go to college, then you've made poor choices that are affecting how you're able to live today. you keep assuming what i think without necessarily knowing just based off of a few comments that i've made -- mostly that the fundamental problem with the government is corruption. you seem to be on a rant to show that socialism is the way to go and since i don't believe that, i must be ignorant or less than you... i don't want to argue with you. i just don't want the government to get bigger, i don't want to pay more taxes, etc., i don't want people to live in poverty. i would love to see people being able to get jobs that can pay enough that they can live on but we need to keep a capitalist approach for this nation to survive. having the government tell us they can fix all these problems for all these past presidents is getting kind of old, isn't it?
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I don't understand what you are proposing the nation does about the need of health care access for people who can't afford it. Could you be more specific?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You talk as if the two parties are the same too. Yet you agree there are differences. Important ones at that. Different means they are not the same. You had to go back thirty years to make your case. Maybe it was valid then.
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I didn't say they're the same. I said they function in very similar ways. When it comes to certain issues, both parties hold opposite ideologies, but when it comes to other issues, they function very similarly;

List of Secretary of the Treasury since Ronald Reagan was president;

-Reagan - Donald Regan; Chairman and CEO of Merrill Lynch from 1971 to 1980
-Reagan/Bush 1 - Nicholas F. Brady; former Chairman of the Board of Dillon Read & Co. Inc. (investment banking) (1970–1988)
-Clinton - Robert Rubin; Before his government service, he spent 26 years at Goldman Sachs, eventually serving as a member of the board and co-chairman from 1990 to 1992.
-Clinton - Lawrence Summers; During the California energy crisis of 2000, then-Treasury Secretary Summers teamed with Alan Greenspan and Enron executive Kenneth Lay to lecture California Governor Gray Davis on the causes of the crisis, explaining that the problem was excessive government regulation. Under the advice of Kenneth Lay, Summers urged Davis to relax California's environmental standards in order to reassure the markets.

Summers hailed the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999, which lifted more than six decades of restrictions against banks offering commercial banking, insurance, and investment services (by repealing key provisions in the 1933 Glass–Steagall Act): "Today Congress voted to update the rules that have governed financial services since the Great Depression and replace them with a system for the 21st century," Summers said. "This historic legislation will better enable American companies to compete in the new economy."
-Bush 2 - John W. Snow; served as a director for NationsBank Corp
-Bush 2 - Henry Paulson; Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Goldman Sachs
-Obama - Timothy Geithner; Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Goldman Sachs, former American central banker
-Obama - Jack Lew; COO at Citigroup from 2006 to 2008
-Trump - Steven Mnuchin; CIO of Goldman Sachs, CEO and Chairman of OneWest Bank

At least 9 key players in 9 key positions who have ties to banks, appointed by both Republican presidents as well as Democrats

One example

War would be another example;



Bush 2 initiated 2 wars; Iraq & Afghanistan, Obama inherited them both and advanced the global war on terror to 5 other countries; Somalia, Libya, Yemen, Syria, & Pakistan

The war on illegal drugs, NSA spying, whistleblowers, etc.
Fogdog said:
Today, just look at how the Obama administration governed then look at the Trump one. Big differences.
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Comparing Trump to any previous president is an unfair comparison, even George W. Bush

When You compare Bush to Obama, there are many similarities with how they both governed
Fogdog said:
If you like Donald Trump's tax cut and spending increase policy so much then fine, I agree that you've gone over to the other side.
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Neoliberal economics is the biggest issue I criticize outside campaign finance reform. I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.
Fogdog said:
But don't tell me that the two parties are the same.
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I didn't. I said both parties function in very similar ways. You said I said they're the same.
Fogdog said:
His management of the economy made life better for you and others whether you recognize it or not.
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1 In 2 Working Americans Make Less Than $30,000 A Year
95% Of Income Gains Since 2009 Went To The Top 1% — Here's What That Really Means
Fogdog said:
Right now, the cause is to prevent Trump and the 1% from making things worse. If you can't see this then fine. We agree on a lot of things but not this.
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We agree on that, but you still want to use the same losing strategy that gave us Trump, lost 1,000 seats in government during the Obama administration, and has no clear vision for the future beyond defending the ACA, instead of single payer

You have yet to outline why you wish to cling to this losing strategy instead of a populist progressive one that is virtually guaranteed to beat Trump in 2020 if he doesn't get impeached before then


Are you capable of answering that like an adult?
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
undercovergrow said:
@esh dov ets

View attachment 3944127
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LOL I believe you are confusing Freedom with Commerce, neither one is free but commerce is the most expensive bill I pay for while sitting in traffic.

Freedom loving Corps.
  1. Pepco Holdings
  2. PG&E Corp.
  3. Wisconsin Energy
  4. NiSource
  5. International Paper
  6. FirstEnergy
  7. Priceline.com
  8. Amos Energy
  9. General Electric
  10. American Electric Power
  11. Ryder System
  12. Duke Energy
  13. NextEra Energy
  14. Xcel Energy
  15. Ameren
  16. CMS Energy
  17. Sempra Energy
  18. Eversource Energy
  19. ......
  20. .....
  21. .http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-18-companies-that-paid-no-taxes-over-8-years/
 
undercovergrow

undercovergrow

Well-Known Member
Grandpapy said:
LOL I believe you are confusing Freedom with Commerce, neither one is free but commerce is the most expensive bill I pay for while sitting in traffic.

Freedom loving Corps.
  1. Pepco Holdings
  2. PG&E Corp.
  3. Wisconsin Energy
  4. NiSource
  5. International Paper
  6. FirstEnergy
  7. Priceline.com
  8. Amos Energy
  9. General Electric
  10. American Electric Power
  11. Ryder System
  12. Duke Energy
  13. NextEra Energy
  14. Xcel Energy
  15. Ameren
  16. CMS Energy
  17. Sempra Energy
  18. Eversource Energy
  19. ......
  20. .....
  21. .http://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-18-companies-that-paid-no-taxes-over-8-years/
Click to expand...
you are equating freedom as equality which should come from socialism when capitalism is the only system that is for the individual therefore for personal freedom. focusing on the corruption that exists in WS and the banks is only the tip of the iceberg. the whole system is corrupt.
 
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