sunshine17542
Well-Known Member
Some people are very prideful
Head VS head
- Thread starter medicineman
- Start date
RickWhite
Well-Known Member
I think this exemplifies why nobody ever sees the other person's point. How can there be agreement when people express outrageous views and are willing to go to their grave defending them.
I have always said that there are two ways to think. The first is to gather information and form your ideas based on this information. The second is to formulate your opinions before hand and then search for evidence to support what you want to be true. Just look at the 911 conspiracy thread and you will see a lot of the second group.
Many of the people in this forum including yourself, are not open to new ideas. They are only here to engage in verbal arm wrestling.
And it is clear when people are doing this based on how they communicate. When you see hyperbolic claims, personal attacks and childish, snide remarks it is a sign you are dealing with such a person. You yourself use personal attacks as your main tool of debate.
The truth is, I am always open to new ideas if they are worth considering. I have yet to see a persuasive argument in this forum. Most are more along the lines of what I discussed above.
The best example is GrowRebel in the 911 thread. Here is a case of a guy doing nothing but acting like a stupid little child. What are we supposed to learn from a guy like that aside from how childish people on the internet can be.
I myself am a Centrist and I see all radical, hyperbolic views as being somewhat stupid by definition. I think the most intelligent people are in the center although the Left has gone so far off the deep end it is as if Centrists are the new right. The religious Right - I don't know anyone who takes them seriously anyway.
Anyway, in the end, I doubt anyone will ever convince me to adopt some stupid radical Left viewpoints and I doubt someone will ever have me believing in faith healers.
I will however consider all reasonable opinions.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
the problem with your statement is that both liberty and tyranny mean different things to different people. i can't begin to count the number of times i've read folks on this very site express the notion that we may have too much freedom. the belief that a government can be trusted to determine just how far our liberties can limited before it can be called tyranny seems an opinion becoming increasingly popular. the days when common revolutionary thought considered big business and government to be co-conspirators in crimes against the people have passed, to be replaced by the idea that government may be the unwitting dupe of corporate conspirators. there seem to be very few who can see the possibility that it may be the other way around.
i guess i'm doing something very wrong or maybe it's something very right. i've spent a good part of my life to reach the point i'm at, firmly ensconced in the lowest rungs of the middle class, and i'm fairly satisfied with the life i've lived. i've seldom been too terribly impressed with the material, preferring to exercise my freedom of choice and usually eschewing the accumulation of more than i really need. not having come from privilege, none of it was easy. all around me i saw the children of the wealthy being given everything they could possibly want, but it never really bothered me all that much because i knew i had my liberty and i knew how to appreciate it.
knowing how to appreciate it seems to be the key. the idea that liberty is of concern only to the wealthy seems born more of envy than anything else. i've known greater liberty working sixteen hours a day than many rich men will ever know and certainly more than anyone chained to the goodwill of the state. but i guess i'm one of the elite, the ability to revel in freedom for its own sake and without the trappings of material accomplishment seems all that's needed to join their ranks.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Yeah that ranting that I do about liberty is pretty insane huh? Elitist? Me? First time I've been called that. I have to disagree with your label for me.
I suppose I'm not shy about expressing my opinion here, but the theme is usually a "live and live" concept, I'm not sure how that makes me an elitist. If anything I'd say I'm all about respecting others as long as they harm nobody. I believe in liberty for everybody, don't you ?
i'm posting on the politics forum cuz it's entertaining, i enjoy it. it's even funner cuz there's conservatives here, and stoners discussing shit is just plain and simple incredible. have you seen these forums?? it starts about Iran and ends up being about gay marriage, horseback riding, rights to privacy, astronauts, midgets, mutations, the moon.... all sorts of crazy shit... it's incredible!!
and you are wrong. changing the world can happen one person at a time... it just takes patience....
and you are wrong. changing the world can happen one person at a time... it just takes patience....
The Warlord
Well-Known Member
This statement leads me to believe you are a pinko commie and want to take my money and give it to poor people.
Freedom and liberty have NOTHING to do with wealth. NOTHING. Not even a lil bit. Not at all.
Your statement is so false it's like watching bugs bunny cartoons. fairy tale land.
Well lets start simple, OK?
Can we agree that we shouldn't
point guns at one another to get our way?
If you can grasp that consept you will see Liberty in a whole diffrent light.
See a Libertarian can live with a socialist a socialist can't live with a Libertarian.
Not without pointing guns at him anyway.
If I've learned anything here its that everyone is diffrent.
We all have our muse, we all have our likes and dislikes.
We all have our social priorities.
However, Liberty brings us together.
We all have broken the "Law" we all know it can me unjust.
I just draw my line at pre-emptive force.
If you have to point guns at peaceful people trying to live their lives.
in order to get your way, for whatever reason, your part of the problem.
I want government to enforce contracts, prevent theft, fraud and violence.
That is why government is instituted.
Government has proven a poor substitute for charity and real meaningful giving.
Let men wrestle their own conscience on what is right and wrong.
So long as they harm no-one.
Can we agree that we shouldn't
point guns at one another to get our way?
If you can grasp that consept you will see Liberty in a whole diffrent light.
See a Libertarian can live with a socialist a socialist can't live with a Libertarian.
Not without pointing guns at him anyway.
If I've learned anything here its that everyone is diffrent.
We all have our muse, we all have our likes and dislikes.
We all have our social priorities.
However, Liberty brings us together.
We all have broken the "Law" we all know it can me unjust.
I just draw my line at pre-emptive force.
If you have to point guns at peaceful people trying to live their lives.
in order to get your way, for whatever reason, your part of the problem.
I want government to enforce contracts, prevent theft, fraud and violence.
That is why government is instituted.
Government has proven a poor substitute for charity and real meaningful giving.
Let men wrestle their own conscience on what is right and wrong.
So long as they harm no-one.
ViRedd
New Member
^^^ Now, that right there is one of the most astute posts I've seen here on the forum.
Undertheice ... the above post would be my interpretation of liberty.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Whoa... what elementary school did you go to, where 3rd grade was a "fuckfest"?
Seriously, I want to know. My daughter will be in 3rd grade next year and I'd like to keep her as far from this 3rd grade fuckfest as possible. Unless, of course, as Michelle Bachmann insists, there will be "sex clinics" in the school.
Thanks.
Seriously, I want to know. My daughter will be in 3rd grade next year and I'd like to keep her as far from this 3rd grade fuckfest as possible. Unless, of course, as Michelle Bachmann insists, there will be "sex clinics" in the school.
Thanks.
medicineman
New Member
Here's the line: But Both sides are so vehemently opposed that it is a fuckfest, [like 3rd grade, I know you are but what am I.] I believe the meaning was clear, I was refering to adults acting like 3rd graders. The assumption that I was refering to a 3rd grade sex party is beyond belief. It would take a distorted mind to even make that connection. Can you see the line clearly now professor. Object= "Both sides" Fuckfest is the verb, I'm no english major and really don't have a degree in sentence structure, But I think the meaning was clear. The sentence may have been made clearer like: both sides act like 3rd graders, but are involved in a fuckfest of immense porportions. I actually feel belittled by your comment. the meaning was clear.
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Freedom and liberty have nothing to do with wealth, huh? So why is it if you don't have the money to retain a good attorney, your chances of being convicted of a crime and sentenced to prison (even if you're innocent) are higher?This statement leads me to believe you are a pinko commie and want to take my money and give it to poor people.
Freedom and liberty have NOTHING to do with wealth. NOTHING. Not even a lil bit. Not at all.
Nothing to do with wealth my ass.
The Warlord
Well-Known Member
i'm speaking of freedom from government interference in how you live your life. If you need an attorney and you have not harmed another person you are not fee so it doesn't matter if you can afford the attorney or not. Even if you beat the rap with your expensive attorney the opresive law is still there. your not free, your just not incarcerated.
medicineman
New Member
Well, it sure beats being incarcerated, wouldn't you agree? That being said, Money is freedom, the more you have, the more things you can do, places you can go, luxury living you can enjoy, etc. Money=good, broke=bad. The rest of the freedom thing is strictly bullshit, at least in a capitalist society, money rules. I wonder how many rich dudes ever went to jail for Pot possession, sales maybe.
The Warlord
Well-Known Member
I disagree. Money= luxury. Not having the government rule your life=freedom. Regardless of how much money you have. Rich or poor. My idea of freedom is obviously much different than yours. Some of the happiest people i've ever met lived in a cabin and crapped in an outhouse. No wealth but they sure seemed free and they enjoyed life more than some of the wealthyest people i've met.
if you really believe money is freedom i feel sorry for you. You've lost your way.
Big P
Well-Known Member
actually I find that my posts are so thoughtfull and undeniable that even when libs refuse to admit it I know deep down they know im right
but I think medi that in the past when you and other libs enjoyed this forum more it was filled with way left leaning progressives, and now that the shoe resides upon the other side it just seems to you that the battle for hearts and minds is being lost. but to guys like me we see it as us finally winning for once and I am proud to be a part of it
but I think medi that in the past when you and other libs enjoyed this forum more it was filled with way left leaning progressives, and now that the shoe resides upon the other side it just seems to you that the battle for hearts and minds is being lost. but to guys like me we see it as us finally winning for once and I am proud to be a part of it
medicineman
New Member
Not at all, I've just become acquainted with reality. I used to smoke pot like crazy and believe in fairy tales, but then I grew up, something some of you on this site have not yet achieved. As one old dude once said, " when you're up to your ass in aligators, it's hard to remember you just came here to drain the swamp". That pie in the sky your as free as a bird without money bullshit doesn't work for me anymore, but soldier on. It's not even about materialistic things, but when one is on a fixed income and everything is escalating in price, money does become a very important thing. money to pay the mortguage, (Or sleep under the bridge) Money to pay the light bill, the water bill, etc. Example, the hot water line under the slab broke, $4,000.00. That may be peanuts to you, but that's real money to me. Don't give me that oh yeah, you don't need money bullshit, it is bullshit pure and simple. Believe me, there are plenty of people right now that know that money is important. If you don't think so, mail me yours.I disagree. Money= luxury. Not having the government rule your life=freedom. Regardless of how much money you have. Rich or poor. My idea of freedom is obviously much different than yours. Some of the happiest people i've ever met lived in a cabin and crapped in an outhouse. No wealth but they sure seemed free and they enjoyed life more than some of the wealthyest people i've met.
if you really believe money is freedom i feel sorry for you. You've lost your way.
The Warlord
Well-Known Member
Plus rep for confidence and conviction.actually I find that my posts are so thoughtfull and undeniable that even when libs refuse to admit it I know deep down they know im right
but I think medi that in the past when you and other libs enjoyed this forum more it was filled with way left leaning progressives, and now that the shoe resides upon the other side it just seems to you that the battle for hearts and minds is being lost. but to guys like me we see it as us finally winning for once and I am proud to be a part of it
medicineman
New Member
Well la-ti-da. You know ViRoid, it's really not about you and I. We just tend to personalize it. It's really about all Americans from the poorest motherfucker to the richest prick. Re-distribution of wealth is the governments job. Trying to equalize the playing field to give everyone that wants to work a job should be job one. Fuck lazy assholes that refuse to work, let them starve, but for those that can't, we need to provide a healthy productive chance. When there are no jobs due to unmitigated greed by the top 10%, then we are fueling a revolution. as far as I'm concerned, let-er-rip.actually I find that my posts are so thoughtfull and undeniable that even when libs refuse to admit it I know deep down they know im right
but I think medi that in the past when you and other libs enjoyed this forum more it was filled with way left leaning progressives, and now that the shoe resides upon the other side it just seems to you that the battle for hearts and minds is being lost. but to guys like me we see it as us finally winning for once and I am proud to be a part of it
doobnVA
Well-Known Member
Anyone who says money doesn't equal freedom has never sat in jail for a month for a crime they didn't commit because they couldn't post $1,000 bond.
They've also never needed to get away from an abusive relationship but couldn't afford a plane/bus/train ticket or the gas money to drive away.
They've also never needed to get away from an abusive relationship but couldn't afford a plane/bus/train ticket or the gas money to drive away.
undertheice
Well-Known Member
gee, i wonder if it could have something to do with a corrupted judicial system and a society that refuses to commit to the idea of personal responsibility. liberty is nothing without the acceptance of responsibility and we seem to spend an inordinate amount of time attempting to relieve ourselves of our obligations. it's no wonder that money can buy justice in a land with a decaying ethos.