Where are we headed?

[RickWhite]

Are we moving in a good direction or a bad one?

I am not referring to the current political or economic climate or standard of living. I am referring to the general direction we as a society, as a culture and as individuals, are headed.

I for one feel we are headed in a bad direction. I think we have lost focus on what is important in life and what will ultimately bring us happiness.

Everything I know and believe tells me that it is our relationships that bring us happiness. Cultures with cohesive and large families consistently rate higher in happiness. I believe strong families are the best way to insure health, wealth and happiness and I have ample evidence to support this.

I believe that the breakdown of the traditional family is the underlying cause of most of our social ills and I believe the facts support this notion. I see this as the main cause of poor mental health on an individual level, delinquency, poverty and unhappiness.

Until we become cognizant of what we had and what we have lost, I fear we as individuals and as a society will continue to decline in happiness and in quality of life. Not necessarily in standard of living but in quality of life.

What do you think?

 

[redivider]

you are wrong. the issues we have at hand are caused by people that refuse to take responsibility for anything. the traditional family (man and woman and kids) has never been proven to keep things stable. if the parents do not do a good job at raising their kids, then the kids will be fucked up. just like the columbine parents, who blamed marilyn manson for their kids shooting up the place. it wasn't their fault they didn't notice their kids were amassing a huge arsenal, and planning the worst school shooting in american history. it wasn't their fault they didn't notice their kids had issues, and it certainly wasn;t their fault they didn't provide their children with the proper treatment for these issues. it was marilyn manson and death metal's fault....


i think you need to take your head out of your ass, and stop giving credit to the 'traditional' family. give credit to good parenting, communication, and empathy. the cultures of this world that are the happiest happen to have a quasi-socialist society with universal healthcare, free education all the way to college, honest politicians who will fuck a corporation in the ass if they go past their limits, and open-mindedness. they embrace sexuality as a part of the human being, and do not repress it as americans do, they believe the best way to keep young people happy is by teaching them that sex is ok, if done safely. they believe the way to happiness is through education, communication, and setting as little barriers as possible, even if it includes shunning or banning religious exercises that serve as a divisive force, instead of the religion serving as the community building, counsel giving, positive influence they should be.

that's the way to true happiness, living in a family with one mother and one father has nothing to do with it....

 

[RickWhite]

you are wrong. the issues we have at hand are caused by people that refuse to take responsibility for anything. the traditional family (man and woman and kids) has never been proven to keep things stable. if the parents do not do a good job at raising their kids, then the kids will be fucked up. just like the columbine parents, who blamed marilyn manson for their kids shooting up the place. it wasn't their fault they didn't notice their kids were amassing a huge arsenal, and planning the worst school shooting in american history. it wasn't their fault they didn't notice their kids had issues, and it certainly wasn;t their fault they didn't provide their children with the proper treatment for these issues. it was marilyn manson and death metal's fault....


i think you need to take your head out of your ass, and stop giving credit to the 'traditional' family. give credit to good parenting, communication, and empathy. the cultures of this world that are the happiest happen to have a quasi-socialist society with universal healthcare, free education all the way to college, honest politicians who will fuck a corporation in the ass if they go past their limits, and open-mindedness. they embrace sexuality as a part of the human being, and do not repress it as americans do, they believe the best way to keep young people happy is by teaching them that sex is ok, if done safely. they believe the way to happiness is through education, communication, and setting as little barriers as possible, even if it includes shunning or banning religious exercises that serve as a divisive force, instead of the religion serving as the community building, counsel giving, positive influence they should be.

that's the way to true happiness, living in a family with one mother and one father has nothing to do with it....

There are a lot of ways to manipulate studies, especially when issues are as abstract as happiness.

I am aware some studies show that certain European Countries like Denmark (which also has one of the highest suicide rates) report high happiness. But the majority of studies show that the Latino cultures and others with a great deal of emphasis on family are the most happy.


Here is a link that describes the difference between happiness and subjective well being.

http://www.thehappinessshow.com/HappiestCountries.htm

At any rate, this thread is not a scientific debate about which cultures are the most happy. It is about whether or not we are headed in a good direction or a bad one.

I assume from your response that you feel we are heading in a good direction as long as parents continue to become more permissive in their parenting and we teach our children to be more sexual. So, one can also assume one parent is better that two because the children will have less supervision and therefore less restrictions on their behavior. Am I close?

 

[undertheice]

i suppose it depends on your definition of family. the traditional description, those related by blood and/or marriage, may be where we first learn to care about those around us, but it is that caring for others that signifies an enlightened society. caring for those in your traditional family is merely an extension of caring for yourself, empathy and a willingness to sacrifice for those totally unrelated to you, to the stranger in need, is the higher goal that allows civilizations to thrive beyond the material. the moral imperative that we, as individuals, care for those around us is the necessary next step in our ethical evolution. we avoid taking that step by demanding that governments, as our proxy, take over that responsibility. we distance ourselves from the problems of our society, refusing to accept the blame for our own missteps and avoiding the personal responsibility of alleviating suffering.

it is the concept of charity that defines an advanced society. technology is merely a mask that enables us to sate our baser desires without getting our hands dirty. government is merely an instrument of force, driving others to obey the desires of the mob or the chosen few. the rule of law is merely that force, codified and imposed whether the members of that society are willing or not. it is the choice to charity by each individual that signifies an enlightened populace and that is one of the few goals worth aiming for. each time we use the force of government to impose charity, we drive ourselves further from that goal by absolving ourselves of the personal responsibility and the choice.

 

[GrowingfortheGold]

I agree with you that society is going downhill. I think that we no longer have the same values as we did in the past. The way people raise their kids, what kids as exposed to as a whole...really changes how they develop. Changes there perception of things and their principles/beliefs. I think that media, political correctness, to an extent technology, and the lack of absolutes are fucking things up...just a few examples. Anyways peace.

 

[RickWhite]

i suppose it depends on your definition of family. the traditional description, those related by blood and/or marriage, may be where we first learn to care about those around us, but it is that caring for others that signifies an enlightened society. caring for those in your traditional family is merely an extension of caring for yourself, empathy and a willingness to sacrifice for those totally unrelated to you, to the stranger in need, is the higher goal that allows civilizations to thrive beyond the material. the moral imperative that we, as individuals, care for those around us is the necessary next step in our ethical evolution. we avoid taking that step by demanding that governments, as our proxy, take over that responsibility. we distance ourselves from the problems of our society, refusing to accept the blame for our own missteps and avoiding the personal responsibility of alleviating suffering.

it is the concept of charity that defines an advanced society. technology is merely a mask that enables us to sate our baser desires without getting our hands dirty. government is merely an instrument of force, driving others to obey the desires of the mob or the chosen few. the rule of law is merely that force, codified and imposed whether the members of that society are willing or not. it is the choice to charity by each individual that signifies an enlightened populace and that is one of the few goals worth aiming for. each time we use the force of government to impose charity, we drive ourselves further from that goal by absolving ourselves of the personal responsibility and the choice.

Brilliant as usual.

Where do you think we learn how to relate to others on a genuine intimate level as opposed to a non-personal one? I can't think of any place to better learn this than growing up in an intact family. In fact, studies show that younger children from larger families tend to be more socially savvy than even their older siblings.

 

[RickWhite]

I agree with you that society is going downhill. I think that we no longer have the same values as we did in the past. The way people raise their kids, what kids as exposed to as a whole...really changes how they develop. Changes there perception of things and their principles/beliefs. I think that media, political correctness, to an extent technology, and the lack of absolutes are fucking things up...just a few examples. Anyways peace.

Good points here too.

I hate those damn video games. When I was a kid we used to go outside to play. We used to use our imagination and make stuff and examine our world.

And we learned how to relate to other people socially and about life as we lived it. Now, kids just sit inside by themselves and tune out everything save for getting to the next level. How are children supposed to learn proper social conduct?

 

[GrowingfortheGold]

Yea too much video games is definitely on track to social retardation aka nerds haha. I understand what you're saying about traditional family. Family is supposed to guide you and instill what is trully important in life. Their age and wisdom is what shows them this. However, now it's the kids out all the time. They have much less guidance and are left a lot more to their own devices. School of hard knocks for finding happiness I suppose. Unfortunately, many find superficial happiness and in the end are left empty and unfulfilled. They seek help and what do you know they get prescribed a drug or two because they are so "depressed" Modern medicine seems to treat the symptoms all the time but never the cause....Just some thoughts from a youngin [18]

 

[laughingduck]

I just have 3 letters for you J O B S.

 

[medicineman]

i suppose it depends on your definition of family. the traditional description, those related by blood and/or marriage, may be where we first learn to care about those around us, but it is that caring for others that signifies an enlightened society. caring for those in your traditional family is merely an extension of caring for yourself, empathy and a willingness to sacrifice for those totally unrelated to you, to the stranger in need, is the higher goal that allows civilizations to thrive beyond the material. the moral imperative that we, as individuals, care for those around us is the necessary next step in our ethical evolution. we avoid taking that step by demanding that governments, as our proxy, take over that responsibility. we distance ourselves from the problems of our society, refusing to accept the blame for our own missteps and avoiding the personal responsibility of alleviating suffering.

it is the concept of charity that defines an advanced society. technology is merely a mask that enables us to sate our baser desires without getting our hands dirty. government is merely an instrument of force, driving others to obey the desires of the mob or the chosen few. the rule of law is merely that force, codified and imposed whether the members of that society are willing or not. it is the choice to charity by each individual that signifies an enlightened populace and that is one of the few goals worth aiming for. each time we use the force of government to impose charity, we drive ourselves further from that goal by absolving ourselves of the personal responsibility and the choice.

You know, I was right on board with you intill you barked your usual Bad government mantra. There actually may be some good things to government if you could widen your perspectives. Do I think this government is good, (US)? Hell no. It is evil as hell. A good government may be more closely related to the Canadian example. Though not perfect by a long ways, it actually has a modicum of civility in the way it treats it's citizenry. It provides health care to its citizens, has a lot more relaxed policy towards Marijuana, and in general, promotes the welfare of its people over the profits of its ruling class. There is still a ruling class, but it is mostly comprised of old money, long time family ties to wealth, not upstart runaway capitalism. Your general thesis was fine untill you went astray with your anti-government rant. I'm with you on the evilness of the US government and their over compensating exuberance towards corporate America. As usual we differ on why the US government is evil. We are almost exactly 180* apart.

 

[GrowingfortheGold]

I just have 3 letters for you J O B S.

Got one full time...and that happens to be 4 letters.

 

[chitownsmoking]

were headed to hell in a hurry. used to be only the strong and smart survive. now with modern laws and logics the weak and stupid are protected. leading to the rapid decline in society. think about it look around you. theres alot of dumbass people that shouldnt be here!!!!! thats my beef

 

[medicineman]

were headed to hell in a hurry. used to be only the strong and smart survive. now with modern laws and logics the weak and stupid are protected. leading to the rapid decline in society. think about it look around you. theres alot of dumbass people that shouldnt be here!!!!! thats my beef

Are you advocating euthanasia of the lower IQ ranges? What would be your cutoff level, the level where a lower than IQ would be euthanized? Anyone with a below ??? IQ.

 

[chitownsmoking]

Are you advocating euthanasia of the lower IQ ranges? What would be your cutoff level, the level where a lower than IQ would be euthanized? Anyone with a below ??? IQ.

not just the stupid............ snitches, most police, and the people who call them on others. lots lawyers and judges... pretty much half the scum of the earth, who are in charge of policing or fucking over the other "half scum of the earth"

 

[chitownsmoking]

but to more directly answer your question medman i think the cuttof would be 100. thats about average.

 

[medicineman]

not just the stupid............ snitches, most police, and the people who call them on others. lots lawyers and judges... pretty much half the scum of the earth, who are in charge of policing or fucking over the other "half scum of the earth"

Agreed................

 

[undertheice]

You know, I was right on board with you until you barked your usual Bad government mantra. There actually may be some good things to government if you could widen your perspectives. Do I think this government is good, (US)? Hell no. It is evil as hell. A good government may be more closely related to the Canadian example. Though not perfect by a long ways, it actually has a modicum of civility in the way it treats it's citizenry. It provides.....

where we differ, where folks like you and i will always differ, is that you are trapped in the belief that government is there to provide you with something. i realize you have been indoctrinated by a lifetime of union rhetoric, but it is the individual who must do for himself. all else is childish indolence.

 

[chitownsmoking]

where we differ, where folks like you and i will always differ, is that you are trapped in the belief that government is there to provide you with something. i realize you have been indoctrinated by a lifetime of union rhetoric, but it is the individual who must do for himself. all else is childish indolence.

i agree with what your saying basicly your saying you not promised your piece of the pie you must take it. i can dig it. but why pay taxes to a government or system that dont do shit to help you or most out in everyday life.

 

[Leothwyn]

I do enjoy video games occasionally, but I'm with you guys. Having a kid has made me so much more aware of how much kids are taking in everything, and being shaped by their experiences. Their brains, like their muscles, need to exercised in a very well rounded way constantly - developing social skills, problem solving, being creative, etc.. Video games challenge a tiny fraction of the multitude of different mental skills they need to be working out constantly (same with TV). (Of course, there's the physical health aspect too).

Even trying to keep kids' exposure to media influence minimal, they're going to be exposed to a lot of things that are challenging - sexuality, violence, etc.. It's a tough time to be a parent for sure. It's a lot of work, and I'm not taking the super-permissive, hands-off approach at all, but I'm also not going to try sticking my head in the sand and pretending that they're going to wait for marriage to have sex, for example. The issues are there, and they need to be dealt with - even when they don't fit your notion of traditional values. They're pretty much going to be exposed to everything these days (good and bad), whether you like it or not. Being lazy is not an option anymore. Being too permissive is lazy, and pretending that you can keep your kids in a bubble of traditional values, and not dealing with issues that you don't like is just as lazy.

 

[ViRedd]

I think The Ten Commandments provide us with an excellent rudder for guiding us to a happy life. Anyone want to take issue with that?