The great thermite debate.

[doc111]

nano thermite brought down wtc north south & 7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZNQq7XBLwc
this guy is part of architects and engineers for 911 truth aka ae911

*Sigh*



http://debunking911.com/thermite.htm

 

[WillyBagseed]

Show me one government without innocent blood on their hands, JUST ONE! Look, I'm not defending the government, in fact I somewhat agree with you. I have read plenty of history and have participated in a fair bit of it as well. It may not be able to be proven one way or the other, but there is a lot of evidence supporting the official version and very little evidence and ZERO proof supporting the CT version. Again, I say, it may not matter to YOU, but it DOES matter to a whole lot of people, myself included. This happens to be a subject that I'm very passionate about, have a personal connection to and happen to have a bit of expertise (as well as personal experience) in this field. If it doesn't matter to you, I'm curious, why even post in this thread at all? A lot of threads on here don't "really matter one way or the other" to ME, but I don't attempt to belittle the fact that it matters to someone else.

Why does it matter if our government did it or not? So you can decide if you want to be pissed off at them or not? Enough has been done by our government that one more thing shouldn't make it any worse.

If they had nothing to do with it why does it matter to you if people believe otherwise? Read up on some studies going back to the 1960's until present. 99% of the time if somebody has made up their mind one way or another you have almost 0% chance of changing their mind without 100% plus facts that 100% prove your view. Hell, even with 100% proof it is hard to change the mind of somebody who has vested any time in coming to their own conclusion.

The reason I posted here is because other than directly losing somebody or something in 9.11 it truly does not matter because there is no way to 100% prove it either way and I wished to share that.

Doesn't mean I do not care it happened, I do, very much so and hope all involved die terrible painful deaths. I just choose to not get caught up in something that cannot be proven either way to me satisfactorily.

I have read and seen as much BS from the conspiracy people as I have from the official explanation. Neither side can remotely prove their version in my mind. I am talking about the whole story, not just 2 planes hitting 2 buildings.

And if we are talking experience with this situation please refer to my profile and second PAFSC in the USAF. I too know what I talk about.

I would not intentionally belittle anybody over this bullshit that happened.

 

[doc111]

Why does it matter if our government did it or not? So you can decide if you want to be pissed off at them or not? Enough has been done by our government that one more thing shouldn't make it any worse.

If they had nothing to do with it why does it matter to you if people believe otherwise? Read up on some studies going back to the 1960's until present. 99% of the time if somebody has made up their mind one way or another you have almost 0% chance of changing their mind without 100% plus facts that 100% prove your view. Hell, even with 100% proof it is hard to change the mind of somebody who has vested any time in coming to their own conclusion.

The reason I posted here is because other than directly losing somebody or something in 9.11 it truly does not matter because there is no way to 100% prove it either way and I wished to share that.

Doesn't mean I do not care it happened, I do, very much so and hope all involved die terrible painful deaths. I just choose to not get caught up in something that cannot be proven either way to me satisfactorily.

And if we are talking experience with this situation please refer to my profile and second PAFSC in the USAF. I too know what I talk about.

Then join the debate or don't. The choice is yours. A whole lot of things can't be proven one way or another and they matter to a whole lot of people as well. You act like it's not important to you, but you took the time to click on the thread and EVEN took the time to post, more than once. Are you trying to change my mind? It would seem so since you are telling me it's basically futile to try to change anyone else's mind! I'm confused. What exactly IS your point posting since it "doesn't matter"?

 

[WillyBagseed]

Lol, this post as in my last post is in response to you posting directly to me. My first post is the only one I made to the actual thread.

It does not matter either way (cannot be proven), it does matter that it happened. There is a difference.


*As far as joining the debate all I could add is the same speculation and few truths that are already out there.

I'll be done here now unless I receive something needing a reply again.

 

[negrodamusCBG]

*Sigh*



http://debunking911.com/thermite.htm

all your link was all about a photo(s). im not talking about a single photo- and im defiantly not trying to nit pick and debate historical details and "facts" about the photo.

if you watch that video and look for others like it, you will see that there is scientific evidence for the use of nano thermite. chemical evidence. the way that elements react in chemistry is a known thing- and this knowledge is used when looking at the evidence... which if you watched the video he said he analyzed metal samples taken from wtc wreckage. the samples contain red iron micro spheres, which can only come from the use of thermite, nanothermite specifically.

wake up, use your brain.
conspiracy theorist is just a label, used by TPTB (the powers that be) and the sheeple they control.
WAKE UP

 

[doc111]

all your link was all about a photo(s). im not talking about a single photo- and im defiantly not trying to nit pick and debate historical details and "facts" about the photo.

if you watch that video and look for others like it, you will see that there is scientific evidence for the use of nano thermite. chemical evidence. the way that elements react in chemistry is a known thing- and this knowledge is used when looking at the evidence... which if you watched the video he said he analyzed metal samples taken from wtc wreckage. the samples contain red iron micro spheres, which can only come from the use of thermite, nanothermite specifically.

wake up, use your brain.
conspiracy theorist is just a label, used by TPTB (the powers that be) and the sheeple they control.
WAKE UP

lol! I just had my coffee, so I'm "awake" now! That guy stated he has a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering. I happen to have a degree in chemistry as well, and although I didn't specifically analyze these metal samples from the WTC, I can tell you that thermite is essentially Aluminum and an oxidizer (Iron oxide, Tugnsten oxide, Potassium permanganate, etc.) A fire is a chemical reaction, in fact chemical reactions are taking place inside of us, and all around us. Certain things can cause these chemical reactions to happen at a faster or slower rate or even differently as you change the conditions. I can tell you that there was plenty of Aluminum and Iron Oxide in the WTC. Both are very common and were present in quite large quantities at the WTC. It has never been proven that thermite, nano-thermite, or any other metastable intermolecular composite, or explosive were present at the WTC.

The link I provided is a link to a really well done 9/11 myth debunking site. There was a hell of a lot more than just photos in that link that I provided, so I'm not sure what you are talking about there. Thermite has been debunked with extreme prejudice.

 

[doc111]

all your link was all about a photo(s). im not talking about a single photo- and im defiantly not trying to nit pick and debate historical details and "facts" about the photo.

if you watch that video and look for others like it, you will see that there is scientific evidence for the use of nano thermite. chemical evidence. the way that elements react in chemistry is a known thing- and this knowledge is used when looking at the evidence... which if you watched the video he said he analyzed metal samples taken from wtc wreckage. the samples contain red iron micro spheres, which can only come from the use of thermite, nanothermite specifically.

wake up, use your brain.
conspiracy theorist is just a label, used by TPTB (the powers that be) and the sheeple they control.
WAKE UP

............and sheeple is a label used by??????????

 

[ginjawarrior]

all your link was all about a photo(s). im not talking about a single photo- and im defiantly not trying to nit pick and debate historical details and "facts" about the photo.

if you watch that video and look for others like it, you will see that there is scientific evidence for the use of nano thermite. chemical evidence. the way that elements react in chemistry is a known thing- and this knowledge is used when looking at the evidence... which if you watched the video he said he analyzed metal samples taken from wtc wreckage. the samples contain red iron micro spheres, which can only come from the use of thermite, nanothermite specifically.

thats a lie
have you checked chemical composition of the red primer paint used on the steel beams
have you accounted for the wielding done on the building?
or the powder in copier toner (thats iron rich)
or the brakes on the elevators?

have you seen iron spheres can be produced in ash from coal power stations
http://www.flyash.info/2005/49dro.pdf

or that particles of iron burn at 400c even wire wool http://www.popsci.com/node/9344
[youtube]7Xu5D-UGVRM[/youtube]
have you ever sharpened a knife on a grind wheel you see the sparks that come off guess what they are iron spheres?

to sum it all up that bloke in video is full of shit and your an idiot for believing he has any science behind him

 

[ginjawarrior]

thats a lie
have you checked chemical composition of the red primer paint used on the steel beams
have you accounted for the wielding done on the building?
or the powder in copier toner (thats iron rich)
or the brakes on the elevators?

have you seen iron spheres can be produced in ash from coal power stations
http://www.flyash.info/2005/49dro.pdf

or that particles of iron burn at 400c even wire wool http://www.popsci.com/node/9344
[youtube]7Xu5D-UGVRM[/youtube]
have you ever sharpened a knife on a grind wheel you see the sparks that come off guess what they are iron spheres?

to sum it all up that bloke in video is full of shit and your an idiot for believing he has any science behind him

i just found somethig else out about that "fly ash" its used to make cement!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly_ash#Portland_cement

and they were using it back in the 60's and 70's

http://www4.uwm.edu/cbu/Presentations/WS71-Pozza.pdf
http://www.nrmca.org/research/cif spring 08 fly ash.pdf

 

[NoDrama]

lol! I just had my coffee, so I'm "awake" now! That guy stated he has a bachelor's degree in chemical engineering. I happen to have a degree in chemistry as well, and although I didn't specifically analyze these metal samples from the WTC, I can tell you that thermite is essentially Aluminum and an oxidizer (Iron oxide, Tugnsten oxide, Potassium permanganate, etc.) A fire is a chemical reaction, in fact chemical reactions are taking place inside of us, and all around us. Certain things can cause these chemical reactions to happen at a faster or slower rate or even differently as you change the conditions. I can tell you that there was plenty of Aluminum and Iron Oxide in the WTC. Both are very common and were present in quite large quantities at the WTC. It has never been proven that thermite, nano-thermite, or any other metastable intermolecular composite, or explosive were present at the WTC.

The link I provided is a link to a really well done 9/11 myth debunking site. There was a hell of a lot more than just photos in that link that I provided, so I'm not sure what you are talking about there. Thermite has been debunked with extreme prejudice.

For there to be thermite it has to be mixed in specific ratios. Are you saying that Rust fell off steel contained in the building and mixed itself in the correct ratio with powdered aluminum? How did the aluminum get powdered, how did it randomly mix itself in the correct ratios? How did the reaction start? it takes a temperature in excess of 2,000C. Where the fuck did those high of temperatures come from? So many unanswered questions you haven't given any thought to.

Just so you know, you can't take an aluminum can, throw some rust in it and make thermite, won't even kind of work.

 

[ginjawarrior]

For there to be thermite it has to be mixed in specific ratios. Are you saying that Rust fell off steel contained in the building and mixed itself in the correct ratio with powdered aluminum? How did the aluminum get powdered, how did it randomly mix itself in the correct ratios? How did the reaction start? it takes a temperature in excess of 2,000C. Where the fuck did those high of temperatures come from? So many unanswered questions you haven't given any thought to.

Just so you know, you can't take an aluminum can, throw some rust in it and make thermite, won't even kind of work.

hang on a minute thought you didnt like the thermite idea

Wow , you guessed all of those things didn't you? I never once mentioned thermite, you lose, again. If you don't even know what I said, and instead you just try to put words in my mouth it means you have no logically defensible position and henceforth all your arguments are moot as you cannot argue against someone who just spews lies.

You can wait all you want, I already told you to find it yourself. I aint your bitch.

so are you now espousing thermite??

and all that aside no one found thermite in the wtc dust

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/cache/nyenvirolaw_WTCDustSignatureCompositionAndMorphology.pdf

 

[doc111]

For there to be thermite it has to be mixed in specific ratios. Are you saying that Rust fell off steel contained in the building and mixed itself in the correct ratio with powdered aluminum? How did the aluminum get powdered, how did it randomly mix itself in the correct ratios? How did the reaction start? it takes a temperature in excess of 2,000C. Where the fuck did those high of temperatures come from? So many unanswered questions you haven't given any thought to.

Just so you know, you can't take an aluminum can, throw some rust in it and make thermite, won't even kind of work.

Ummm, no shit? You mean, you can't just throw some rusty nails in a beer can and get a thermite reaction? I'm not the fool you evidently take me for. So what are you contending? That they found unburned thermite? Remember, I don't believe there was thermite at the WTC, nor do I believe there was any kind of thermite reaction, so you are making an awful lot of presumptions. Someone analyzed some shit from the WTC and found Aluminum and Iron oxide and they are all like "Thermite is the ONLY plausible explanation, blah, blah, blah!" Really? No other possible explanation? Is that your final answer?

 

[Ganjuana]

i've seen it said it gives them something to feel important about that they have "special knowledge" that us "sheeple" are too blind to see. it gives them the chanc to feel like some sort of warrior for the "truth" as they sit there entranced by the likes of alex jones

what gets me is they believe their government did something so heinous as to kill thousands of their own citizens yet all they can seem to do is moan on internet forums about it. while they carry on living their lives in the same country paying taxes to that same government literary doing nothing about it. if what they say really is the truth then i call all of them weak feeble COWARDS who are too scared to move away from the "evilness" that is their country let alone do anything about it

and i love the people jumping into this thread with snippits of theories they been nursing for years

cant you even get the name of your really bad conspiracy right? have you even researched it or did you just over hear it from some drunk down the bar??

Operation Northwoods

It doesn't matter if the US is responsible for 9/11 or not, it's still one of the best countries in the world. Hardly anyone would move out of the country even if the government admitted they were actually affiliated with 9/11.

I don't think you'de move either, nor would you be able to do anything about it if the government admitted any type of affiliation with 9/11. I'de assume there may be some looneys who grab some firearms and start something, but the majority of people wouldn't do anything because they value their freedom rather then getting caught up in the government's silly political games, and paying their life for doing so.

I do appreciate the correction on "Operation Northwoods". PS - I briefly researched it a couple years ago. Obviously I didn't look too in depth, as to the incorrect spelling.

Some other things regarding 9/11 that should be questioned:
-The volume of purchased put options 285 times above the average volume, throughout airline stocks.
-Munich Re and Swiss Re stock volumes were both around double their average volumes on September 6th & 7th, both of which are insurance companies that insured the world trade center.
-Raytheon call options were 6 times their average volume on September 10th, which is a tomahawk and patriot missles manufacturer.
-A single $5-billion dollar purchase of 5-year US Treasury notes were purchased before the attacks.

Of course this doesn't mean the US knew anything, but all this stock activity is far beyond the financial capacity of all the terrorist organizations in the world, combined.


I'm not inferring this on you, but to not question anything is ignorance, and you must have an open mind in order not to be ignorant. It wouldn't suprise me if the government was involved. They have a rap sheet for not doing things in the interest of this country.

I did attach a photos of WTC 7 - for those of who believe it was never hit with debris.

 

[ginjawarrior]

It doesn't matter if the US is responsible for 9/11 or not, it's still one of the best countries in the world. Hardly anyone would move out of the country even if the government admitted they were actually affiliated with 9/11.

I don't think you'de move either, nor would you be able to do anything about it if the government admitted any type of affiliation with 9/11. I'de assume there may be some looneys who grab some firearms and start something, but the majority of people wouldn't do anything because they value their freedom rather then getting caught up in the government's silly political games, and paying their life for doing so.

I do appreciate the correction on "Operation Northwoods". PS - I briefly researched it a couple years ago. Obviously I didn't look too in depth, as to the incorrect spelling.

Some other things regarding 9/11 that should be questioned:
-The volume of purchased put options 285 times above the average volume, throughout airline stocks.
-Munich Re and Swiss Re stock volumes were both around double their average volumes on September 6th & 7th, both of which are insurance companies that insured the world trade center.
-Raytheon call options were 6 times their average volume on September 10th, which is a tomahawk and patriot missles manufacturer.
-A single $5-billion dollar purchase of 5-year US Treasury notes were purchased before the attacks.

Of course this doesn't mean the US knew anything, but all this stock activity is far beyond the financial capacity of all the terrorist organizations in the world, combined.


I'm not inferring this on you, but to not question anything is ignorance, and you must have an open mind in order not to be ignorant. It wouldn't suprise me if the government was involved. They have a rap sheet for not doing things in the interest of this country.

I did attach a photos of WTC 7 - for those of who believe it was never hit with debris.

and what alex jones told you about the stocks?

who would buy stocks of the inusrance companies of wtc? even easier who sold their stocks

 

[NoDrama]

and what alex jones told you about the stocks?

who would buy stocks of the inusrance companies of wtc? even easier who sold their stocks

Where did Ganj say they sold stocks in insurance companies? I don't think you read that post correctly. And I know for a fact he never said anything about Alex Jones. Is Alex Jones where you get most of your info from? You seem to have a hard on for the guy, you have mentioned him a few times so far.

 

[NoDrama]

l I can tell you that there was plenty of Aluminum and Iron Oxide in the WTC. Both are very common and were present in quite large quantities at the WTC.

Remember, I don't believe there was thermite at the WTC, nor do I believe there was any kind of thermite reaction, so you are making an awful lot of presumptions.

So when you duly noted that WTC had lots of aluminum and rust you weren't trying to convince us that it was the combination of these things added to the fire that gave off the evidence of thermitic reactions in the dust samples?

Judging by your very own admission I would say it was pretty clear that you believe at least somewhat that the evidence of thermitic reaction was somehow caused by a thermitic reaction, other wise why mention aluminum and Rust?

 

[NoDrama]

Someone analyzed some shit from the WTC and found Aluminum and Iron oxide and they are all like "Thermite is the ONLY plausible explanation, blah, blah, blah!" Really? No other possible explanation? Is that your final answer?

Who are you quoting here? I looked through all the posts and no one makes this claim, Who are you asking the question of?

 

[doc111]

So when you duly noted that WTC had lots of aluminum and rust you weren't trying to convince us that it was the combination of these things added to the fire that gave off the evidence of thermitic reactions in the dust samples?

Judging by your very own admission I would say it was pretty clear that you believe at least somewhat that the evidence of thermitic reaction was somehow caused by a thermitic reaction, other wise why mention aluminum and Rust?

You DID watch the video, didn't you? (It was posted by Ganjuana I believe, a few pages back)


[video=youtube;JZNQq7XBLwc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZNQq7XBLwc[/video]


This guy specifically talks about Aluminum and Iron Oxide (go to around 2:00 and watch). Where did he get his sample? Who reviewed his work? This guy has some SERIOUS problems with the claims he's making if he can't back them up. You should make sure the government hasn't gotten to him too! lol!

 

[NoDrama]

You DID watch the video, didn't you? (It was posted by Ganjuana I believe, a few pages back)



This guy specifically talks about Aluminum and Iron Oxide (go to around 2:00 and watch). Where did he get his sample? Who reviewed his work? This guy has some SERIOUS problems with the claims he's making if he can't back them up. You should make sure the government hasn't gotten to him too! lol!

So what are you trying to say? If government agencies are not involved then all evidence is tainted, false and no good? Only government collected evidence can survive intact? Only Government can review and make decisions?

BTW if you actually paid attention your question as to where he got the sample from is clearly stated. But I am sure since it wasn't collected by a no mistakes ever made government agent, Im sure the sample was tainted with thermite from somewhere else.

I don't suppose you have ever used a thermite grenade? NM you didn't serve in the military.

 

[doc111]

So what are you trying to say? If government agencies are not involved then all evidence is tainted, false and no good? Only government collected evidence can survive intact? Only Government can review and make decisions?

BTW if you actually paid attention your question as to where he got the sample from is clearly stated. But I am sure since it wasn't collected by a no mistakes ever made government agent, Im sure the sample was tainted with thermite from somewhere else.

I don't suppose you have ever used a thermite grenade? NM you didn't serve in the military.

Really bro? I never served in the military now? I happened to have been a Corpsman. You know, the guys who patch you up when you get your ass shot or when you get fragged? My moniker clearly states my nickname witch I earned serving with YOU fuckers! Now I'm offended!