I've been using Aloe Vera juice as a surfactant. I mixed it with plain water just to help the water penetrate the soil well and not just run through, with kelp and alfalfa meal botanical teas before watering and foliar spraying. As far as I know, if you keep it refrigerated, it should last for a good while. I bought a large bottle and have a rather modest grow so I've had the same bottle for several months. BTW, I thought that the kelp and alfalfa meal teas with aloe were quite good for the plants. They just seemed to perk up after a good watering or spraying. I'm going to try some seed sprout teas on the next grow...which should be starting soon...if I ever get some time off from work and can finish those new LED fixtures. Supposedly, the enzymes from the seeds are very efficacious for our plants.
Living Organics *Ofiicial Thread*
- Thread starter Piff83
- Start date
I've been using Aloe Vera juice as a surfactant. I mixed it with plain water just to help the water penetrate the soil well and not just run through, with kelp and alfalfa meal botanical teas before watering and foliar spraying. As far as I know, if you keep it refrigerated, it should last for a good while. I bought a large bottle and have a rather modest grow so I've had the same bottle for several months. BTW, I thought that the kelp and alfalfa meal teas with aloe were quite good for the plants. They just seemed to perk up after a good watering or spraying. I'm going to try some seed sprout teas on the next grow...which should be starting soon...if I ever get some time off from work and can finish those new LED fixtures. Supposedly, the enzymes from the seeds are very efficacious for our plants.
Cann
Well-Known Member
^ what jcjmrt said. aloe should last for quite a while in the fridge, although fresh aloe filets will be much better for many reasons. also he has a great point about sprouts and enzymes for teas/foliar. apparently barley and alfalfa sprouts make amazing enzymes, i can elaborate more on that later.
enduroxx - have you tried a rice/milk wash to make your own EM? from what I understand you shouldn't need to buy a mother culture, and the whole process should only take about 20 days from start to finish and you will have activated effective microorganisms. here is a good link - http://www.hawaiihealingtree.org/?p=163
also I would stay away from applying some sort of AACT/EM mixture during every watering...most of the great organic minds I know only apply 2 or 3 AACTs/EM mixes during the entire cycle - usually one at the beginning of veg, and one at the beginning of flower (high fungal tea to facilitate K uptake i think). over applying AACTs is like forcing microbes down your plants throat - the microbes should already be at full force if your soil mix is right, so adding a bunch more microbes might not be helping as much as we think. I was initially under the same impression as you, but the more I read the more I realized less is more with AACTs. just a heads up
otherwise everything is lookin gravy
enduroxx - have you tried a rice/milk wash to make your own EM? from what I understand you shouldn't need to buy a mother culture, and the whole process should only take about 20 days from start to finish and you will have activated effective microorganisms. here is a good link - http://www.hawaiihealingtree.org/?p=163
also I would stay away from applying some sort of AACT/EM mixture during every watering...most of the great organic minds I know only apply 2 or 3 AACTs/EM mixes during the entire cycle - usually one at the beginning of veg, and one at the beginning of flower (high fungal tea to facilitate K uptake i think). over applying AACTs is like forcing microbes down your plants throat - the microbes should already be at full force if your soil mix is right, so adding a bunch more microbes might not be helping as much as we think. I was initially under the same impression as you, but the more I read the more I realized less is more with AACTs. just a heads up
otherwise everything is lookin gravy
SpliffAndMyLady
Well-Known Member
Glad you found the light
Couldn't put it much better myself bro. . .less=more; more= more problems and less amendments. it's a lot easier to add a pinch later.
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Coot doesn't use ACT at all any longer. Gas is almost not using ACT at all any more. Spending time making exceptional Vermicompost is the way, IMHO.
FR33MASON
Active Member
I'll chime in with a post I made a while back. I highlighted the paragraph that pertains to water treatment. Just food for thought.
Very good Monkey,
I would also like to add to this thread by also discussing watering do’s and Dont’s.
- Do water your pot(s) the first time, thoroughly.
This will prevent dry, dead spots from forming in your pot(s).
With transplants, this will make the plant’s roots to spread throughout the entire pot and chase the water all the way down to the bottom of the pot.
- Don’t get water on your foliage.
Many plant diseases are spread through water supply with powdery mildew being a major one.
Also water droplets in full sun or grow lights act as a magnifying glass and will burn plant’s tissue.
A fine mist with lemon water (1/2 Tsp. juice and a brunoise strip of rind in a 1L spray bottle made fresh every time that I need it) first thing in the morning about ½ to 1 hour before lights on has served me well for when it is needed.
- Do de-nature municipal water supplies. Bacterial decomposition is the quickest and best non-chemical way for chloramines. Just circulation and time is needed for chlorine.
I use a commercially available culture.
The brand that I use is Cycle. The bacterial culture of nitrobacter and nitrosomonas bacilli will break the bond between the chlorine atoms and the ammonia molecules in order to consume the ammonia the chlorine effervesces out of solution by way of gas exchange at the surface of the water (meniscus) or the chlorine atom will bond with other atoms or compounds to form usually a ‘salt’ and is quite negligent as far as quantity is concerned.
Cycle or whatever other brand names are out there will rapidly remove chloramines (approx. 20 Gal. (75.8L)) within 24 hours with circulation (power head or air-stone).
If your surface area is wide enough and/or you can cascade the water you could easily eliminate chloramines out of much larger volumes of water. Chloramines are a quickly degrading molecule and will break down within minutes to days of being exposed to a bio active environment depending on bacterial action.
- Don’t over water your plants.
Let them tell you when it is time to water. They will ‘sulk’ when thirsty. When the leaves are just not standing quite at attention is plant talk for “I need water.”
The best time to water is about an hour before lights on as plants do not take much water when lights are off or at night outdoors.
An aquarium as Monkey Bones pointed out is the best way to keep your water supply nutrient rich, healthy and disease free without chemicals.
Here is the link to that thread: https://www.rollitup.org/organics/509830-aquarium-water-your-indoor-organic.html
Cheers and happy growing.
EDIT: One thing I will say about watering with living soil is you cannot let The soil dry out so I retract on advising to let your plants sulk in between waterings.
Very good Monkey,
I would also like to add to this thread by also discussing watering do’s and Dont’s.
- Do water your pot(s) the first time, thoroughly.
This will prevent dry, dead spots from forming in your pot(s).
With transplants, this will make the plant’s roots to spread throughout the entire pot and chase the water all the way down to the bottom of the pot.
- Don’t get water on your foliage.
Many plant diseases are spread through water supply with powdery mildew being a major one.
Also water droplets in full sun or grow lights act as a magnifying glass and will burn plant’s tissue.
A fine mist with lemon water (1/2 Tsp. juice and a brunoise strip of rind in a 1L spray bottle made fresh every time that I need it) first thing in the morning about ½ to 1 hour before lights on has served me well for when it is needed.
- Do de-nature municipal water supplies. Bacterial decomposition is the quickest and best non-chemical way for chloramines. Just circulation and time is needed for chlorine.
I use a commercially available culture.
The brand that I use is Cycle. The bacterial culture of nitrobacter and nitrosomonas bacilli will break the bond between the chlorine atoms and the ammonia molecules in order to consume the ammonia the chlorine effervesces out of solution by way of gas exchange at the surface of the water (meniscus) or the chlorine atom will bond with other atoms or compounds to form usually a ‘salt’ and is quite negligent as far as quantity is concerned.
Cycle or whatever other brand names are out there will rapidly remove chloramines (approx. 20 Gal. (75.8L)) within 24 hours with circulation (power head or air-stone).
If your surface area is wide enough and/or you can cascade the water you could easily eliminate chloramines out of much larger volumes of water. Chloramines are a quickly degrading molecule and will break down within minutes to days of being exposed to a bio active environment depending on bacterial action.
- Don’t over water your plants.
Let them tell you when it is time to water. They will ‘sulk’ when thirsty. When the leaves are just not standing quite at attention is plant talk for “I need water.”
The best time to water is about an hour before lights on as plants do not take much water when lights are off or at night outdoors.
An aquarium as Monkey Bones pointed out is the best way to keep your water supply nutrient rich, healthy and disease free without chemicals.
Here is the link to that thread: https://www.rollitup.org/organics/509830-aquarium-water-your-indoor-organic.html
Cheers and happy growing.
EDIT: One thing I will say about watering with living soil is you cannot let The soil dry out so I retract on advising to let your plants sulk in between waterings.
POH Organics
Member
One of the biggest misconceptions of microherds is that you have to keep the soil wet. Not true, according to the Ohio State University
http://ohioline.osu.edu/sag-fact/pdf/0016.pdf
You can also use molasses and humic acid to bind up chloramine
Rrog
Well-Known Member
That's a good article. Emphasizes the advantage of no-till, which can be done inside under lights also.
The article mentions composting works well with wet / dry sessions, but we're not composting when growing. It mentions microbes go dormant when dry, but a dormant microbe isn't helping the plant.
A constantly, properly moist soil would keep all the microbes constantly operational. Anecdotally, growers using Blumat drippers in soil have found growth improvement from keeping the soil in a nice moisture zone. I keep mine at ~10 kPa.
The article mentions composting works well with wet / dry sessions, but we're not composting when growing. It mentions microbes go dormant when dry, but a dormant microbe isn't helping the plant.
A constantly, properly moist soil would keep all the microbes constantly operational. Anecdotally, growers using Blumat drippers in soil have found growth improvement from keeping the soil in a nice moisture zone. I keep mine at ~10 kPa.
Cann
Well-Known Member
In regards to the moisture issue - this was taken straight from "Teaming with Microbes"
"Hydroscopic water is a thinner film of water, only a few molecules thick, which, like capillary water, attaches to extremely small soil particles by virtue of electrical properties. This film is so thin that the bonds between water molecules and soil particles are concentrated and extremely hard to break. Roots cannot absorb it, therefore, but this film of water is critical to the ability of many microbes to live and travel. Even when conditions are dry, the soil particulate surface holds some hydroscopic water; it is impossible to remove it from the soil without applying lots of heat and actually boiling it off"
hope this clears things up. also, rrog, thanks for the tip about lack of ACT (or AACT or whatever the proper term is....). maybe if microbeman is still lurking around here he can make that clarification at some point...
"Hydroscopic water is a thinner film of water, only a few molecules thick, which, like capillary water, attaches to extremely small soil particles by virtue of electrical properties. This film is so thin that the bonds between water molecules and soil particles are concentrated and extremely hard to break. Roots cannot absorb it, therefore, but this film of water is critical to the ability of many microbes to live and travel. Even when conditions are dry, the soil particulate surface holds some hydroscopic water; it is impossible to remove it from the soil without applying lots of heat and actually boiling it off"
hope this clears things up. also, rrog, thanks for the tip about lack of ACT (or AACT or whatever the proper term is....). maybe if microbeman is still lurking around here he can make that clarification at some point...
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Cann, that's a cool excerpt. Very appropriate.
My only point is it's best to not cycle the soil through purposeful wet / dry periods. Keep the herd at optimal conditions.
Also, AACT is a fantastic way to deliver a great deal of nutrients to the soil very quickly. I just choose to deliver with the original EWC or EWC drench rather than making a formal aerated brew.
My only point is it's best to not cycle the soil through purposeful wet / dry periods. Keep the herd at optimal conditions.
Also, AACT is a fantastic way to deliver a great deal of nutrients to the soil very quickly. I just choose to deliver with the original EWC or EWC drench rather than making a formal aerated brew.
POH Organics
Member
I completely agree, whilst cooking my soil I definitely keep it wet (Let the top go dry, mix it, repeat for a week or two then wet it again). I'm also a fan of EWC slurry as I'm just not confident in my ACT until I get a professional brewer and a microscope, too much up in the air as far as what its in the brew. Instead I've resigned to weekly waterings with EM-1 and IMO5.
$20 Liter of EM-1 can be turned into 20x the mother culture, definitely cost effective enough to water with it liberally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BttGnPHRFT4
Instead of regular blackstrap, I innoculate my molasses at a 1:1 with lactic bacteria and use that in the EM-1 Activation. Double the herd means the activated em-1 is "ready" sooner.
Fermentation vs. Aerobic bacteria. Opinions?
Rrog
Well-Known Member
I don't buy microbes. I'm surrounded by billions. I collect them (BIM's) and use them to start a soil. After that, I let the soil / plant / microbe relationship form the way the plant wants. My opinion is to make your own exquisite worm castings, amending the worm bin / bag with rock powders, silica, kelp, fish meal, clay powders, biochar, etc.
Makes this a simple super amendment, fully bio-active. Combine with 1) Barley Sprout Tea 2) Coconut Water 3) Aloe
Combined with the Vermicompost you make, these three teas will add significant plant enzymes, secondary metabolites and hormones. These molecules degrade rapidly once released from the plant tissue, so use quickly. You can't buy stuff this good.
Makes this a simple super amendment, fully bio-active. Combine with 1) Barley Sprout Tea 2) Coconut Water 3) Aloe
Combined with the Vermicompost you make, these three teas will add significant plant enzymes, secondary metabolites and hormones. These molecules degrade rapidly once released from the plant tissue, so use quickly. You can't buy stuff this good.
POH Organics
Member
I do all of the above
, you know the saponins in aloe make for a good rooting hormone too and shit, throw some willow in with your barley sprouts to boot.I also harvest indigenous microorganisms and use bokashi in compost. You should add some bokashi to your bins, tell me whatcha think
You should drop the clay and add em ceramics, just as many feldspars and ideal home for microorganisms, much in the same way rock dust works. Already innoculated
(Yes, it does cost money though! 
)http://www.teraganix.com/TERRA-Powder-p/4011.htm
and yes I buy microbes too
. $20 bottle for THIS plant, worth it, and like I said one bottle lasts about a year, very cost effective.I have a feeling you've got alot to teach, eager to learn!
Cann
Well-Known Member
POH - nice to see you around here. you seem to have a good grasp of organics for someone such a low post count - don't be afraid to school all the n00bs on here who are spreading lies - I sure wish someone woulda schooled me a few months ago...
that being said, pay close attention to Rrog - this cat knows his stuff. and if he doesnt know 100%, the answer is not far away via clackamascootz, microbeman, or gascanastan. treasure trove of information this one is
that being said, pay close attention to Rrog - this cat knows his stuff. and if he doesnt know 100%, the answer is not far away via clackamascootz, microbeman, or gascanastan. treasure trove of information this one is
Cann
Well-Known Member
word. I am loving the plushberry right now...one of them is still running at 9 weeks...getting real plump. ill snap some pics once the lights come on. shes coming down in a few days, all of her sisters are curing right now. the smoke from the scissor hash is amazing lol but thats not much of a indicator. 2 keeper phenos for me I think...out of 3 females - 5 beans popped originally. jillybean is great - the one female i ended up with popped nanners so I culled her early, not gonna keep the genetics - still a great smoke though. perfect for anti-depression qualities and very sweet smelling, i wish I had a keeper female. i have grown vortex before and it is pretty good overall, nothing special in my book though.
rrog - on a soil note, the mix of yours has been "cooking" for about 20 days and at this point is pretty dry (crumbly not clumpy), but still smells decently of ammonia. what is going on here??? i sprayed with a molasses dilution of MM's reccomendation but it doesnt seem to have done much...should I just give it time and let it fully dry out?? really stuck on what to do here...
rrog - on a soil note, the mix of yours has been "cooking" for about 20 days and at this point is pretty dry (crumbly not clumpy), but still smells decently of ammonia. what is going on here??? i sprayed with a molasses dilution of MM's reccomendation but it doesnt seem to have done much...should I just give it time and let it fully dry out?? really stuck on what to do here...
Rrog
Well-Known Member
Ammonia is N leaving, so I'm wondering what N source seems to be cooking. When you lift the lid off are you getting hit with ammonia, or only when you stick your nose to it? Otherwise if it's not anaerobic (can't see how it would be with all the turning) I'd keep it moist to keep the aerobes happy.
FR33MASON
Active Member
Just though I would show what I have growing with living soil. I use promix BX and vermi-compost based concoction. To that, I mineralize the mix primarily with glacial rock dust that I get right here from northern Alberta. I also add a bit of green sand and crushed egg shells. I add blood and bone meal, ground poplar leaf litter, composted chicken and cow manure right from my family's farm. I also collect a huge amount of mulm from my aquariums and add that all together. I also make smaller batches of a living soil that has high phosphorus bat guano mixed in for top dressing during flowering. I compost for 60 days minimum before use.
I water the plants with live water that I keep from my aquariums and keep it fed with municipal tap water that has chloramine in it.
I only have a 430W HPS for this grow but I am upgrading to a 1000W right after harvest.
Here are (5) Vortex and (1) Blueberry in #3 pots at day 42-44 of flowering.
Blueberry
Vortexes (sp? lol)
I dunno, they seem to like what they are growing in.
I water the plants with live water that I keep from my aquariums and keep it fed with municipal tap water that has chloramine in it.
I only have a 430W HPS for this grow but I am upgrading to a 1000W right after harvest.
Here are (5) Vortex and (1) Blueberry in #3 pots at day 42-44 of flowering.
Blueberry
Vortexes (sp? lol)
I dunno, they seem to like what they are growing in.