Don't switch straight to 12/12 according to new study

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Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
this is one of the reasons why i think any amount of light past 16+ hours does little for the plant during veg
other than keep it warm for a bit longer

peace
It's actually all about a plant's light saturation point, s concept which few seem to explore around here. Easier to parrot the 24/0 thing I guess than to try to find the light saturation point of their plants where more becomes less.

UB
 

ProfessorPotSnob

New Member
I could never see one applying this to a perpetual grow , it would not work as the photoperiod would be fucked no matter due to the disruption of adding acclimating plants . I would rather just walk room to room and call it done while checking my calendar .
Calculating the stretch using this method could really become one hell of a nightmare :mrgreen:
 

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
in winter time my plants can go from 80-85f lights on to 55-60f lights off i do not provide any heating once the lights are off
i do not see any detectable slowing in growth rate, just a few more colourful buds due to the colder conditions

peace
My plants don't grow at ALL in the winter. They will stay green and healthy when I heat the room, but they still don't begin to grow properly until March or later. My house is old and has no insulation, single pane windows, and no central heating; it gets miserable in the winter and almost unbearable in the summer.

The plants do turn a pretty, but disturbing purple color though. Maybe I should go for that "designer bud" next winter, lol.
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
The fastest growth i have seen is during veg, from week 4 onward with lights on 24/0
keeping temps at constant 80f , growth is phenomenal lol
i see no reason to drop temps in veg, but during flower i would worry about greater risk of mold and bud root etc
with high night temps

peace
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
My plants don't grow at ALL in the winter. They will stay green and healthy when I heat the room, but they still don't begin to grow properly until March or later. My house is old and has no insulation, single pane windows, and no central heating; it gets miserable in the winter and almost unbearable in the summer.

The plants do turn a pretty, but disturbing purple color though. Maybe I should go for that "designer bud" next winter, lol.
i had a similar grow about 10 years ago, the place was very old even the widnows did not fully shut gaps and drafts everywhere
i did decide to install some heating when the lights switched off, i did not notice any difference other than a larger electric bill
i do not think they would of gone below 50f but it was cold enough to see your breath in the air
 

skunkd0c

Well-Known Member
It's actually all about a plant's light saturation point, s concept which few seem to explore around here. Easier to parrot the 24/0 thing I guess than to try to find the light saturation point of their plants where more becomes less.

UB
You misinterpreted my post
it was the constant heat of 80F that produced the faster growth, rather than the extended photo period
i have experimented with various photoperiods during veg, and flower
i believe that anything over 16+ hours has little benefit to plants other than the constant heat supply from the lights during veg,
this point i have previously raised in this very thread only a page or two ago
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
The fastest growth i have seen is during veg, from week 4 onward with lights on 24/0
keeping temps at constant 80f , growth is phenomenal lol
i see no reason to drop temps in veg, but during flower i would worry about greater risk of mold and bud root etc
with high night temps

peace
I gave you the science and you STILL see no reason to drop the night temps. OK

This is normal growth for me. Note the width and heights that I measured for each week. Do you get plants that are 13" + width after only 2 weeks of the seeds popping the surface? This was my normal indoor growth rate. 12/12 at 3.5 weeks still resulted in 5' tall plants come harvest. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
You misinterpreted my post
it was the constant heat of 80F that produced the faster growth, rather than the extended photo period
i have experimented with various photoperiods during veg, and flower
i believe that anything over 16+ hours has little benefit to plants other than the constant heat supply from the lights during veg,
this point i have previously raised in this very thread only a page or two ago
Didn't misunderstand anything. What you believe is immaterial. It's all about science. http://www.marietta.edu/~spilatrs/biol103/photolab/saturati.html
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Light saturation point? I would be interested to see a journal article or two about this phenom. That term is typically used to describe the maximum intensity that a plant can utilize to produce carbohydrates through ATP and it is NOT time based. Time has absolutely positively NOTHING to do with light saturation levels yet, as is somewhat typical for you, you understand most of the concept then staunchly apply it in a wrong way. Saturation levels for MJ are around 90k lux. Above that tissue damage may occur. I don't know the exact light saturation point but it's safe to assume it is reached as this lux level is higher than what is typically experieneced under natural light.

The major point here is that discussions of time and light saturation are not appropriate as they are completely independent of each other. Plants may UTILIZE sunlight at different rates dependant on time, but the limit is completely static.

MJ is a C3 plant and fixes co2 through ATP and NADPH molecules. It's not a staggered cycle of absorption and then fixation during the dark like C4 plants. As long as the light are on, the plant is "working" and growing. As stated before, the ciracdian rhythm still applies and a plant will slow down its rate of CO2 absorption as the light duration is extended past what is typical but it will adjust to 24 hours of light.

Obviously the temperature has an effect on growth rates, it an endothermic (takes heat) reaction. Plants are like lizards in that respect. As long as you increase the availability or intensity of other limiting factors (co2, light intensity, nutrient availabilty), growth rates are directly tied to temperature.

This is newb stuff guys.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Light saturation point? I would be interested to see a journal article or two about this phenom. That term is typically used to describe the maximum intensity that a plant can utilize to produce carbohydrates through ATP and it is NOT time based. Time has absolutely positively NOTHING to do with light saturation levels yet, as is somewhat typical for you, you understand most of the concept then staunchly apply it in a wrong way. Saturation levels for MJ are around 90k lux. Above that tissue damage may occur. I don't know the exact light saturation point but it's safe to assume it is reached as this lux level is higher than what is typically experieneced under natural light.

The major point here is that discussions of time and light saturation are not appropriate as they are completely independent of each other. Plants may UTILIZE sunlight at different rates dependant on time, but the limit is completely static.

MJ is a C3 plant and fixes co2 through ATP and NADPH molecules. It's not a staggered cycle of absorption and then fixation during the dark like C4 plants. As long as the light are on, the plant is "working" and growing. As stated before, the ciracdian rhythm still applies and a plant will slow down its rate of CO2 absorption as the light duration is extended past what is typical but it will adjust to 24 hours of light.

Obviously the temperature has an effect on growth rates, it an endothermic (takes heat) reaction. Plants are like lizards in that respect. As long as you increase the availability or intensity of other limiting factors (co2, light intensity, nutrient availabilty), growth rates are directly tied to temperature.

This is newb stuff guys.
The issue is the total amount of photons received by the leaf tissue relative to all the inputs during the lights on cycle. Now, for the newbs, that means that if you bleached out your chlorophyll, then you don't have enough of say....N or you've given the plant too much light or both.

For the record, plants produce more carbos when given less light over a longer period of time than very high light over a shorter period of time.

I explained what I thought were the best all around inputs for the typical cannabis mutt in my tweeks thread. Those inputs will give you the fast and healthiest growth with excellent production.

UB
 

Situation420

Well-Known Member
It's actually all about a plant's light saturation point, s concept which few seem to explore around here. Easier to parrot the 24/0 thing I guess than to try to find the light saturation point of their plants where more becomes less.

UB
WTF is a light saturation point?
 

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
I'm beginning to think that Dutch Masters Liquid Light may simply be a Triacontanol solution intended for foliar application. Does anyone else think this could be a possibility? I've read that Triacontanol needs a surfactant in order to be "dissolved" and DM is quite explicit and insistent about the need for their surfactant, Saturator, when using Liquid Light.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Liquid light is mostly comprised of very short chain simple sugars. Although their saturator is excellent, and surfactant will reduce surface tension enough to aid absorption. Liquid light is a good product. I spray it on shorter plants to have them catch up with bigger plants. The saturator however is a total rip off.

Pick up some coco wett or dr. Bronners soap. I use dr Bronners peppermint cause bugs dont like it
 

Situation420

Well-Known Member
Liquid light is mostly comprised of very short chain simple sugars. Although their saturator is excellent, and surfactant will reduce surface tension enough to aid absorption. Liquid light is a good product. I spray it on shorter plants to have them catch up with bigger plants. The saturator however is a total rip off.
Great idea with the shorter plant spray, My $200 bottle of liquid light has been sitting on my shelf for 2 years, i now have a use for it. Don't spray during flowering right, or atleast after the first week?
 

Impman

Well-Known Member
Liquid Light??!? Its not funny anymore. Someone needs to shut these grow shops down. These gypsy grow shop operators are stealing from these people. LIQUID LIGHT??!? I have seen some ignorant shit before but this takes the cake. This is the mother of all Snake Oils. I am saving these posts and printing. NO ONE will believe me if I don't
 

Situation420

Well-Known Member
Liquid Light??!? Its not funny anymore. Someone needs to shut these grow shops down. These gypsy grow shop operators are stealing from these people. LIQUID LIGHT??!? I have seen some ignorant shit before but this takes the cake. This is the mother of all Snake Oils. I am saving these posts and printing. NO ONE will believe me if I don't
I would have to agree. I used it and saw no difference, but at the same time now that I think of it I used it on every plant so how am i to know? I got the shit from a friend that said he didn't want it and it's just sat on my shelf for 2 years haha.
 

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
Liquid light is mostly comprised of very short chain simple sugars. Although their saturator is excellent, and surfactant will reduce surface tension enough to aid absorption. Liquid light is a good product. I spray it on shorter plants to have them catch up with bigger plants. The saturator however is a total rip off.

Pick up some coco wett or dr. Bronners soap. I use dr Bronners peppermint cause bugs dont like it
Agreed, I'm not spending $60 on a quart of surfactant when I can get 5 gals for the same price at the co-op.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail. Thought I'd ask since it occurred to me and we were on the subject of light, lol.
 

hexthat

Well-Known Member
i use agave sugar for liquid light, neem oil and soap for surfactant

idk how well sugars work but neem oil and soap are a good surfactant
 
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