Don't switch straight to 12/12 according to new study

also when i flower i spend a week lowering the light from 18/6 to 12/12 everyday droping the amount of daylight by an hour

Impman said:

Liquid Light??!? Its not funny anymore. Someone needs to shut these grow shops down. These gypsy grow shop operators are stealing from these people. LIQUID LIGHT??!? I have seen some ignorant shit before but this takes the cake. This is the mother of all Snake Oils. I am saving these posts and printing. NO ONE will believe me if I don't

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I love how people that have absolutely no experience with a product just come out and start making all these bullshit claims. You and UB can keep growing in dirt with miracle grow and call everything else "snake oil"

If your going to be an ignorant ass about then so be it.

Like all the "advanced" threads. The turds found this one and ruined it

You forgot that just before calling whatever product snake oil, they call whatever person made the comment a newb who knows nothing of botanical science. Really though that's like their catch phrase watch for it. Personally I'm waiting for those trolls to get banned

Uncle Ben said:

More bullshit from you and a stupid practice that is against everything that's natural as it pertains to mother nature. You don't understand plant evolution or processes.

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Indoors is natural? If you think growing indoors is natural then you are the one that does not understand. The information you have brought to the table was taught to me 30 years ago. You do realize this is 2013? Methods and processes have changed drastically and you know it. YOU and YOUR information are OLD HAT so unless you school yourself to the standards of today your ego and info are outdated. Go back to school.

Uncle Ben said:

I don't do myths, I bust them. I also bust know-it-alls like you

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I will gladly put my worst plant up against your best plant any day my friend, I've seen your pictures, there's nothing to boast about, and looking at kites pics and threads proves that your info is bunkum and you have taken a decent grower and put him down the wrong path...Sadly he has no clue because your info(though viable)is old and out of date. He could do sooo much better with better info. From the pics you and your cronies post, I could easily double your yields with just a little guidance and different techniques. YOU my friend(and I use that term loosely)should NOT give advice until you actually have a clue and come down from that HIGH HORSE you think you are on

Uncle Ben is an Alpha, pure and simple. That is why he comes off crass and shit, but for fucks sake, he knows what he's talking about. He and his references from Universities, the nerve. Yea, get off your high horse UB and succumb to the marketing forces. You should have been around when Fatman was here arguing with UB, talk about 2 rutting Rams having at it, WOW.

Uncle Ben doesn't even grow anymore and I have been told he was strictly outdoor when he did. He has SOME decent advise but his above post about light saturation with a link to peer reviewed literature is classic.

The post has nothing to do about the topic at hand and then he goes further to bastardize it and try to twist it to make his point. Same with the " advice" about temperature differential.

It's really a shame that more people can't think critically and realize that technology and methods evolve as information does.

The didn't even know about fulvic acid and how it works 30 years ago. And I can tell you that it absolutely Ficking rocks!!

Spray some liquid gold from flower products on half your plants and then tell me it's snake oil.

The sad part is that I am finally finding out why many of the truely expert growers don't post on RIU. Who has the energy to try and convince less educated people that insist they already understand all the intricacies of plant physiology and horticulture practices. All of UBs posts reflect this narrow mindset.

I mean, what do I know, it's not like nearly every dispensary in portlad is selling my buds.

so guys , ive always believed soil/root temp should be 65deg F +/- 5 deg. And that the growroom chamber should be at 75 +/- 10 deg (unless co2)
the reason i initially thought this was because
1) Microbes thrive in 60-70deg F water, this is why when people brew teas they like to take the soil temperature before they add the water, so they dont shock the herd (even though you truly have the herd die every time food runs out, there may be micro herds chillin
2) The temperature drop allows the soil to cool off, this is why its important for the night cycle, cool air cools off the buckets and lets the plant get ready for its next day
3) Microbes will die if they fluctuate down to 50 degrees or up to 80 degrees (guessing the numbers here but u get what i mean no more/less than 60-70 degrees is optimal) so this means the soil is supposed to always been between 60 and 70

of course you need to be bio friendly if teaming with the microbes and know how to apply the teas and whatnot
and this research brought me to the conclusion of why its best to keep soil 60-70 and area 70-80, with a lights off period during veg (i go 18/6)

lol edit i forgot to mention nighttime temps are 60-70; 10 deg lower than day temps . This will cool off the medium and stuff and the foliage handles it fine

patlpp said:

Uncle Ben is an Alpha, pure and simple. That is why he comes off crass and shit, but for fucks sake, he knows what he's talking about. He and his references from Universities, the nerve. Yea, get off your high horse UB and succumb to the marketing forces. You should have been around when Fatman was here arguing with UB, talk about 2 rutting Rams having at it, WOW.

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He knows what he is talking about in 1975. His 4 main colas technique proves that. This is a very good example of what some of us are talking about. Topping as early as he recommends does in fact work and work well but what isn't mentioned is the fact that it will also take 10-14 days longer to mature. This problem was solved late eighties when it was found that by topping later basically gives you the same outcome but because its later in veg the maturing plant does not skip a beat and added time is a thing of the past. This is common knowledge in the circles I frequent. So now...if the newbie coming on here new this, what way do you think he would do it? Every aspect of his knowledge base is like this. Its too bad because the people he helped really think they got some GREAT knowledge and advice, when in fact they should check the expiry date on said advise and look for other alternatives. I did not mean to hijack your thread and get off topic, I apologize.

Sir.Ganga said:

He knows what he is talking about in 1975. His 4 main colas technique proves that. This is a very good example of what some of us are talking about. Topping as early as he recommends does in fact work and work well but what isn't mentioned is the fact that it will also take 10-14 days longer to mature. This problem was solved late eighties when it was found that by topping later basically gives you the same outcome but because its later in veg the maturing plant does not skip a beat and added time is a thing of the past. This is common knowledge in the circles I frequent. So now...if the newbie coming on here new this, what way do you think he would do it? Every aspect of his knowledge base is like this. Its too bad because the people he helped really think they got some GREAT knowledge and advice, when in fact they should check the expiry date on said advise and look for other alternatives. I did not mean to hijack your thread and get off topic, I apologize.

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I have not experienced a 10-14 day delay at all with his topping technique, as a matter of fact when I top as he suggests (when if you cut at the 4th node such that the clipping is well suited as a root-able clone), I end up with a clone 2 1/2 weeks behind the original ! He stresses not to top too early by the way, just as you do. Do you mean not to top @ node 4 at all or what? . WHen do you top and what method? FIM ? Don't you think he has also tried it at different stages ? Doing it later would also defeat the purpose he describes IMO. I don't think he states that his way is the only way does he? I use his method and that is all I do, no LST or anything. I let her rip and I have superb results so I commend him for providing me with a sure fire method to increase yield and keeping them in control with excellent canopy penatration. I have gone a round with him also about AN Sensi and lo and behold, out of all his subsequent posts about how he loves Dyna FP and reduced P and plenty of N in bloom it equates to what AN Sensi (with a tad cal/mag) provides, but he will never admit it. It's an ego face-saving thing I guess. I'm with you bro, one should always strive for the better and he tends to slam one for trying when it contrasts with basic Botany, which in a way you can't blame him. I'm not by any means defending all of his teachings coupled with his slams but I do respect the time he has given this board helping others. But why not respect his input just as much as you want respect for yours?

legallyflying said:

Liquid light is mostly comprised of very short chain simple sugars. Although their saturator is excellent, and surfactant will reduce surface tension enough to aid absorption. Liquid light is a good product. I spray it on shorter plants to have them catch up with bigger plants. The saturator however is a total rip off.

Pick up some coco wett or dr. Bronners soap. I use dr Bronners peppermint cause bugs dont like it

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"Liquid Light"? Sheesh, even the title sounds cheesy. I think they should call it "Liquid Fuckin' Lite" with a catchy acronmym of LFL. Might get more of you sucker bets hehe.

If you need a "saturator" at a reasonable price, you don't buy it from a hydro store. Take that back, guys like you do but wise folk like me head down to a feed store where you can buy a gallon of a non-ionic surfactant such as your saturator shit for a fraction of the cost. A gallon costs about $14. Now, if you really want to run with the big dogs, you use what I use, a product such as "Surf King Plus". I buy it in 2.5 gal. jugs from Winfield Solutions. For the little pups (that would be you)....you can buy it here: http://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/surf-king-plus

Now, for you guys still struggling with mite issues, a new product from Bayer is not to be beat - Forbid 4F. I have 8 oz on the way. At a rate of 1/8 tsp/gallon, 8 oz is enough to supply the entire growing membership of RIU.

UB

Sir.Ganga said:

He knows what he is talking about in 1975. His 4 main colas technique proves that. This is a very good example of what some of us are talking about. Topping as early as he recommends does in fact work and work well but what isn't mentioned is the fact that it will also take 10-14 days longer to mature. .

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Bullshit. Maturity is genetically and culturally (temps, etc.) driven. If it takes 14 days longer to mature, it's because of you, not the technique. As I stated on page one, the plant will react with new output within 24 hours. If not, you got a growing issue that YOU need to solve. It's just that simple.

Nice try troll....

Uncle Ben

Sir.Ganga said:

He knows what he is talking about in 1975. His 4 main colas technique proves that. This is a very good example of what some of us are talking about. Topping as early as he recommends does in fact work and work well but what isn't mentioned is the fact that it will also take 10-14 days longer to mature. This problem was solved late eighties when it was found that by topping later basically gives you the same outcome but because its later in veg the maturing plant does not skip a beat and added time is a thing of the past. This is common knowledge in the circles I frequent. So now...if the newbie coming on here new this, what way do you think he would do it? Every aspect of his knowledge base is like this. Its too bad because the people he helped really think they got some GREAT knowledge and advice, when in fact they should check the expiry date on said advise and look for other alternatives. I did not mean to hijack your thread and get off topic, I apologize.

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He's talking about a 10-14 day delay in vertical growth and he's right. I just recently started topping during the first week of veg and notice my plants took a additional week and a half to get big enough to place into flowering compared to the previous times. As for results, ive had my largest harvests to date.

Situation420 said:

He's talking about a 10-14 day delay in vertical growth and he's right.

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Are you now a spokesman for Troll-It-Up Uncle Ben's Cyber Stalker? He used the word "maturity" and some spin hoping someone will fall for his petty UB putdowns. You do know what "maturity" means and I'm not talking about some of the childish behavior here. Maturity as in "it took my plant 8 weeks to mature enough to harvest." NOT vertical height.

Any time you top any kind of plant material whether it be a peach tree, pecan tree, wisteria, cannabis, or rose bush it will result in a plant with less vertical growth. That is what you're after when you train using topping aka 'tipping'. If you top a sativa clone, the one not topped will ALWAYS be much taller than the one topped. Go back to my topping thread and you'll learn a bit about apical dominance and the redistribution of growth hormones.

UB

I know a lot about apical meristem dominance and how it effects hormonal balance and its "redistribution" (no such thing probably a misinterpretation of whats going on) throughout plants. Thank you for simply understanding what i was saying about that topping. I also have plants that i topped when they were in there first week and are taller than any plants than iv'e ever grown because i allowed them too. You cannot compare topping between a cannabis plant and a peach tree or a rosebush because they are drastically different. Thats like comparing the anatomy of a dog to a human. Good luck on your quest to defend yourself and trying to sound intelligent.

Situation420 said:

I also have plants that i topped when they were in there first week and are taller than any plants than iv'e ever grown because i allowed them too.

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All of the exact same genetics I'm sure.

When it comes to certain plant processes that are shared by most plants I will lump them together to make my point. Why? Cause I can.

No, you can't compare cacti with cannabis. duh.......

UB

Uncle Ben said:

"Liquid Light"? Sheesh, even the title sounds cheesy. I think they should call it "Liquid Fuckin' Lite" with a catchy acronmym of LFL. Might get more of you sucker bets hehe.

If you need a "saturator" at a reasonable price, you don't buy it from a hydro store. Take that back, guys like you do but wise folk like me head down to a feed store where you can buy a gallon of a non-ionic surfactant such as your saturator shit for a fraction of the cost. A gallon costs about $14. Now, if you really want to run with the big dogs, you use what I use, a product such as "Surf King Plus". I buy it in 2.5 gal. jugs from Winfield Solutions. For the little pups (that would be you)....you can buy it here: http://store.doyourownpestcontrol.com/surf-king-plus

Now, for you guys still struggling with mite issues, a new product from Bayer is not to be beat - Forbid 4F. I have 8 oz on the way. At a rate of 1/8 tsp/gallon, 8 oz is enough to supply the entire growing membership of RIU.

UB

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Classic. Post up like you know it all.
Guys like me, guys with a commercial pesticide applicators license with wholesale business accounts at ag supply wharehouses?

You see, guys like me have used commercial ag surfactants and realized cocowet is the same price yet...hey look it's 3 times more concentrated. Your surfking will make 500 gallons of spray at two tsp gallon and the cocowet will make 1500+ for actually $5 cheaper.

Grumpy old douche fail.

http://www.spray-n-growgardening.com/Coco-Wet-gallon/productinfo/GCCW/

Ps. Only sloppy growers get mites. Have fun smoking poison.

There is no point in arguing about surfactants. Different brands are available in different areas and not in others. You just have to do the math and figure out which is more cost effective. Some people can't afford, nor do they need a barrel of surfactant, so even if they wind up paying more in the long run... it's ok. You do what you can.

I admit I laughed at Liquid Light when I first heard about it, but a couple of people that I trust recommended it too me, said it worked wonders, so I thought I'd spend the money and try it out. It causes my leaves to yellow and burn, does that mean it's working.... idk. I have to use a quarter to half the recommended strength. I am inclined to say that it does work though. It is intended for indoor grows under artificial light; I'm growing outdoors right now and think the blazing summer sun combined with Liquid Light is just too much. If you don't want to use it, don't buy it.

legallyflying said:

Classic. Post up like you know it all.
Guys like me, guys with a commercial pesticide applicators license with wholesale business accounts at ag supply wharehouses?

You see, guys like me have used commercial ag surfactants and realized cocowet is the same price yet...hey look it's 3 times more concentrated. Your surfking will make 500 gallons of spray at two tsp gallon and the cocowet will make 1500+ for actually $5 cheaper.

Grumpy old douche fail.

http://www.spray-n-growgardening.com/Coco-Wet-gallon/productinfo/GCCW/

Ps. Only sloppy growers get mites. Have fun smoking poison.

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Another snake oil op. I know who these people are. That spray-n-grow crap is highest in sodium. Wanna napalm your faves, go ahead.

I wouldn't piss on their office if it was on fire.

Only real growers get mites. Sorry, but it's a fact of life. Kinda like you saying "I've never lost money playing the stock money". Right, if you never lost money playing the stock market, then you've never really played.

UB

At least it doesn't crash your PH like surfking does. So no comment on covering your plants in pesticides? Thank god they just passed a law here that all buds sold in dispensaries have to be tested for pesticides.

Uncle Ben said:

Only real growers get mites. Sorry, but it's a fact of life.

UB

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4 years growing, 17 harvests, never had a single bug in my grow room, not even a fly

LOL am I just destined to have them come or am i doing something right?