10,000 Watt 10 Plant 13 Gallon Rdwc [3d Model Incl. Inside Thread]

[Stltoed]

Most, yes, but I've seen a few with a lot of posts/likes and even some nice grows showcased on their profile. I think it really boils down to people having success with HPS (because yes, they do in fact work...) and they aren't willing to put the work into figuring out if LED is now a better alternative. Having only ever grown with HPS before, and only just recently beginning serious research into the subject, I completely understand where those people are coming from. The research is hard. You have to dive into some very complex material and spend a lot of time figuring out what LED configuration works best for your specific circumstances. Its just a lot more complicated than HPS: "hey guys i have a 4x4 space how much light should i use?" - "easy bro just throw a 1k watt hps in there and make sure you have adequate cooling!" - "ok thanks man!"

The LED conversation is a bit more elaborate than that lol. People just don't want to put in the effort to learn for themselves. I'm confident I won't get an argument in favor of HPS over LED that will change my mind. But you know what the funny part is? I want that! If someone has a real argument that leads me to the best lighting system for my grow, then I want it! Lol...I'm not a LED re-seller. I don't profit from advocating LED. I just want to grow in the most efficient way I can and produce the best buds I can.

BTW...

I see this thread has become fairly active. That's pretty cool so I'd like to pose this question to you folks here and see what you think.

We've all heard of vertical growing, standard horizontal growing, supplemental lighting as well for the sides of the plant, but I've never seen a serious discussion on the benefit of surrounding the entire plant with light. Almost like keeping the plant enclosed in a cylinder of light with light also shooting upwards from the bottom of the plant. I'd like to experiment with that. My idea is, regardless of what lighting system you choose, the operation pays for the lights and eventually you are profiting, and with the benefit of not needing to change bulbs often with LED as you would HPS I'm wondering how this would work out...

I've decided when I make the move to Colorado I'm going to stay within the plant limit. This allows me to give each plant as much light as achieving an optimal outcome requires. If it were a warehouse or something I see how the added cost would deter someone from doing this. But with a limited amount of plants, I'd have no problem putting way more money into the cost of lights per plant.

Anyone want to chime in on this?

There are a few topics that stir people up on these forums. Defoliation really seems to get em going. Lights are another. Even amoung LED growers there is unrest. Its COBs or nothing seems to be popular. I use Black Dog and love them, but theyre "blurple" so not well loved but the COB set.

LED manufacturers are their own worst enemy. They regularly straight up lie about what their products can provide. There seems to be only a handful of companies who's products do what they say they can do. I wonder how many guys did some research then bought a Spectrum King and didn't do well. Thats got to leave a bad taste...

Changing peoples mind is very difficult. They have to be open to the new opinion. If they guy just pulled 4 poinds out of his room he may not be willing to hear these new ideas. He will probably be more apt to defend his rig. LEDs havent always been so great. Weve all seen the guy who tried LED once, hated it, and "will never go back". After a little more conversation it turns out he bought a couple Mars lights years back.

 

[CCCmints]

There are a few topics that stir people up on these forums. Defoliation really seems to get em going. Lights are another. Even amoung LED growers there is unrest. Its COBs or nothing seems to be popular. I use Black Dog and love them, but theyre "blurple" so not well loved but the COB set.

LED manufacturers are their own worst enemy. They regularly straight up lie about what their products can provide. There seems to be only a handful of companies who's products do what they say they can do. I wonder how many guys did some research then bought a Spectrum King and didn't do well. Thats got to leave a bad taste...

Changing peoples mind is very difficult. They have to be open to the new opinion. If they guy just pulled 4 poinds out of his room he may not be willing to hear these new ideas. He will probably be more apt to defend his rig. LEDs havent always been so great. Weve all seen the guy who tried LED once, hated it, and "will never go back". After a little more conversation it turns out he bought a couple Mars lights years back.

You have hit the nail on the head! Indoor growing has always been dominated by HID. When LED was first being used to grow marijuana, it was a train wreck. Its only just now starting to become a viable option for both small and large scale operations. The people who've done their research are the ones who know LED is going to take over the game. People talk about big warehouse grows not using LED and that's why they won't use it themselves. But they don't realize its simply a matter of time. From an economical sense, large-scale operations would be far better off using LED. Just the bulb replacement costs alone make this a huge deal. Not to mention the other benefits LED brings...

Its gonna be funny in a couple of years when all these guys bashing LED look like cavemen running their HID setups. There's actually people out there who are such die hard fans of HID lighting that they still think vegging with MH makes any fucking sense at all. All we can do is continue our research, share the data, and have sympathy for the poor fellows stuck in the past.

 

[Stltoed]

Hahaha. Right.

People are generaly dumb in my opinion. They love teams... Ford or Chevy, apple or droid, Republican or Dem. and nothing in between. I kinda gave up on "helping people" with my opinion in most matters. Politics cured me of that. Or was it the Ford Chevy thing... hahaha i dont remember

 

[ttystikk]

Most, yes, but I've seen a few with a lot of posts/likes and even some nice grows showcased on their profile. I think it really boils down to people having success with HPS (because yes, they do in fact work...) and they aren't willing to put the work into figuring out if LED is now a better alternative. Having only ever grown with HPS before, and only just recently beginning serious research into the subject, I completely understand where those people are coming from. The research is hard. You have to dive into some very complex material and spend a lot of time figuring out what LED configuration works best for your specific circumstances. Its just a lot more complicated than HPS: "hey guys i have a 4x4 space how much light should i use?" - "easy bro just throw a 1k watt hps in there and make sure you have adequate cooling!" - "ok thanks man!"

The LED conversation is a bit more elaborate than that lol. People just don't want to put in the effort to learn for themselves. I'm confident I won't get an argument in favor of HPS over LED that will change my mind. But you know what the funny part is? I want that! If someone has a real argument that leads me to the best lighting system for my grow, then I want it! Lol...I'm not a LED re-seller. I don't profit from advocating LED. I just want to grow in the most efficient way I can and produce the best buds I can.

BTW...

I see this thread has become fairly active. That's pretty cool so I'd like to pose this question to you folks here and see what you think.

We've all heard of vertical growing, standard horizontal growing, supplemental lighting as well for the sides of the plant, but I've never seen a serious discussion on the benefit of surrounding the entire plant with light. Almost like keeping the plant enclosed in a cylinder of light with light also shooting upwards from the bottom of the plant. I'd like to experiment with that. My idea is, regardless of what lighting system you choose, the operation pays for the lights and eventually you are profiting, and with the benefit of not needing to change bulbs often with LED as you would HPS I'm wondering how this would work out...

I've decided when I make the move to Colorado I'm going to stay within the plant limit. This allows me to give each plant as much light as achieving an optimal outcome requires. If it were a warehouse or something I see how the added cost would deter someone from doing this. But with a limited amount of plants, I'd have no problem putting way more money into the cost of lights per plant.

Anyone want to chime in on this?

Yes.

Don't light plants from underneath.

 

[Stltoed]

Yes.

Don't light plants from underneath.

I was always curious about lighting plants from the bittom up. Whats the deal with that? Seems like it would help the immature stuff inside. I have a lot of respect for how you grow, very curious to see what you have to say

 

[ttystikk]

I was always curious about lighting plants from the bittom up. Whats the deal with that? Seems like it would help the immature stuff inside. I have a lot of respect for how you grow, very curious to see what you have to say

Light from the side, no problem. Light from underneath doesn't seem to help.

 

[Stltoed]

I do augment my main lights with smaller "spot" lights. Im trying some lights that only put out 670nm, I cant say they are the last word in bulk building power, but they were cheap.

 

[CCCmints]

Yes.

Don't light plants from underneath.

Hmm, ok. So COB panels on the sides and above. Now the question is do you want an even amount of light for each of those panels? Do you want more light above the plants and less to the sides? I'd imagine even all the way around but I'd say its still a valid question.

 

[ttystikk]

Hmm, ok. So COB panels on the sides and above. Now the question is do you want an even amount of light for each of those panels? Do you want more light above the plants and less to the sides? I'd imagine even all the way around but I'd say its still a valid question.

A highly valid question!

I've found that if the plants get even lighting from top to bottom and the plants are properly trained, you'll get quality results from top to bottom.

 

[CCCmints]

Ok, I'm getting excited now. I'm starting to wonder why growing with light on all sides of the plant with the canopy also covered above is not well documented on the internet. I have got to get out of this shit state so I can start practicing these methods. The cannabis growing game is about to change, for real. So much to test, so much to work on. I mean lets think outside of the box, lets think crazy. I'm talking a plants surrounded by a cylinder of light being held in a system where you can easily expand that cylinder to give working space for tending to the plants/training the plants. So much potential in this idea...Its highly plausible. Maybe even look into how different spectrums affect different parts of the plant. Maybe a certain spectrum works better for the lower parts of the plant to create tighter node spacing. Idk, I'm really just rambling. But I'm seeing some serious, serious potential in this type of thing and I think with enough research and testing something revolutionary could be produced.

 

[Stltoed]

A highly valid question!

I've found that if the plants get even lighting from top to bottom and the plants are properly trained, you'll get quality results from top to bottom.
View attachment 4013222

Jesus Christ!

 

[ttystikk]

Jesus Christ!

Never saw any of his grows.

 

[Stltoed]

I have so many questions.

 

[a mongo frog]

I have so many questions.

Me too....

 

[ttystikk]

I have so many questions.

Fire away.

 

[ttystikk]

Me too....

You didn't answer mine from the other day; remember I asked you to tell me about why you didn't like your grows under LED?

 

[a mongo frog]

You didn't answer mine from the other day; remember I asked you to tell me about why you didn't like your grows under LED?

I never said i didn't like them, I was going to mention my wife thought the lack of red was disturbing. So out they went. Death do us apart, 50/50 everything. She likes the red off DE's, SE's also.

 

[Stltoed]

Ive seen a couple pictures of your vertical grows. To say im impressed is putting it lightly. How long does it take to veg something like that? Do you chose strains that grow tall. How much light do you need to cover the plant? Have you grown on both side of the trellis? Finally, what was the weight on that? Amazing stuff.

 

[ttystikk]

I never said i didn't like them, I was going to mention my wife thought the lack of red was disturbing. So out they went. Death do us apart, 50/50 everything. She likes the red off DE's, SE's also.

Interesting. I happen to prefer the 3500K and 3000K CCT LED spectrum, exactly because there's plenty of red in it.

And then there is the indisputable fact of their results.

You do you, man. I'm not judging.

 

[ttystikk]

Ive seen a couple pictures of your vertical grows. To say im impressed is putting it lightly. How long does it take to veg something like that? Do you chose strains that grow tall. How much light do you need to cover the plant? Have you grown on both side of the trellis? Finally, what was the weight on that? Amazing stuff.

From fresh cutting (I'm clone only) to flip day is between 3-4 months.
Any strain will get that tall, some take longer than others.
These plants have been getting about 900W of HID and then 900W of COB LED each.
Haven't gotten on both sides of the trellis panel, but I have grown plants bank to back with a layer of reflective material between them.
My average was about 25-28 oz, my best was this Jillybean, it pulled 32.5 oz;

Thanks for the kind words. There's much more potential in this approach.