Adding deep & far reds to Quantum Board build

[fragileassassin]

the panels have a 120w max you cant go over that safely.
a 240H-C2100 gets 2 of these 304+ boards closer to max power than is possible with any other HLG driver and 304+ board combination. Ive spent many hours looking at and comparing HLG drivers with the boards in sets of 2, 3, and 4.
That driver doesnt have enough output current imo. 2100ma is only enough for 2 boards so i would only buy those if they are cheaper than the HLG-240s as 2 boards on those are only going to pull around 220w total anyway. They both put out 2100ma and thats what matters here since they are constant current. That driver and the HLG driver will drive 2 boards exactly the same.
a 320H-C2800 is a pretty decent driver for 3 of them, but not enough for 4 boards imo.

You dont want your divers max output to be reliant on a dimmer that can fail so your drivers max current should be less than the max current of the boards youre putting on it when using constant current drivers. If something goes wrong, youre over-driving your boards and burning them out or possibly burning your house down.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

the panels have a 120w max you cant go over that safely.
a 240H-C2100 gets 2 of these 304+ boards closer to max power than is possible with any other HLG driver and 304+ board combination. Ive spent many hours looking at and comparing HLG drivers with the boards in sets of 2, 3, and 4.
That driver doesnt have enough output current imo. 2100ma is only enough for 2 boards so i would only buy those if they are cheaper than the HLG-240s as 2 boards on those are only going to pull around 220w total anyway. They both put out 2100ma and thats what matters here since they are constant current. That driver and the HLG driver will drive 2 boards exactly the same.
a 320H-C2800 is a pretty decent driver for 3 of them, but not enough for 4 boards imo.

You dont want your divers max output to be reliant on a dimmer that can fail so your drivers max current should be less than the max current of the boards youre putting on it when using constant current drivers. If something goes wrong, youre over-driving your boards and burning them out or possibly burning your house down.

I found this..

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/pages/qb-optics-and-connectors

Are these the same ones from Rita?

 

[fragileassassin]

I found this..
View attachment 4256943
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/pages/qb-optics-and-connectors

Are these the same ones from Rita?

Kinda. The board layout/design is the same. The board guide they have posted will give you a close idea what you're dealing with but the boards are rated slightly different. The HLG 304 QBs have a 1400ma max compared to the 1200ma of the 304+. So the info is close, but not a direct crossover. I'm not sure why they're rated lower. It could be because of the red LEDs in them or they're just rated lower for heat. I looked into it once, but honestly dont remember any of what I found lol.

The 288 boards you can get from rita would be pretty much the same as HLG ones though and you could use the guide from there.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

This is the spec from Samsung lm561c cri70, says max I is 200mA ...


If I'm @ 150w/304 = .493w/lm561c..
.295 × .167A ~ .49w @ 112v & 1.336A...


167/200 = 83.5% of max

Is this correct thinking? Looking for a 1.33A 112v PS per board? Are the heatsinks not big enough for more than 120w?

She said they are 38S/8P, that's the same as the HLG??

 

[fragileassassin]

This is the spec from Samsung lm561c cri70, says max I is 200mA ...
View attachment 4256946

If I'm @ 150w/304 = .493w/lm561c..
.295 × .167A ~ .49w @ 112v & 1.336A...
View attachment 4256947

Is this correct thinking? Looking for a 1.33A 112v PS per board?

They arent all Samsung diodes, the red ones are epistar I believe. They have the actual diode posted somewhere.

Also, the board itself and the traces have to be considered as well. The meijiu boards could possibly get hotter or not handle as much heat. It's possible they're just under rated, but that's not something I wanted to test myself. I dont have the stuff to do that safely so I just stick to manufacturers specs.

 

[fragileassassin]

I've seen two different wattage rating on the boards now that I think about it. I've seen the same mfg say 120w and 137w for the same 304+ boards.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

They arent all Samsung diodes, the red ones are epistar I believe. They have the actual diode posted somewhere.

Also, the board itself and the traces have to be considered as well. The meijiu boards could possibly get hotter or not handle as much heat. It's possible they're just under rated, but that's not something I wanted to test myself. I dont have the stuff to do that safely so I just stick to manufacturers specs.

Didn't think this was conclusive because it could have meant either way when I looked back at it.. (Also thought the 288s were rated for 175w, oops)... That's why I figured I'd ask y'all haha..

 

[fragileassassin]

Didn't think this was conclusive because it could have meant either way when I looked back at it.. (Also thought the 288s were rated for 175w, oops)... That's why I figured I'd ask y'all haha..
View attachment 4256949

I've wondered about it as well, but it's something I'd have to test really well before putting it in my tent and I dont have any of the tools to do that so I just play it safe with that.

With the boards it's not all about being able to drive them to 100% or more either. A lot of people running them lower power at around 75% and adding more.

For your space I'd honestly do 6 of them and put 3 each on 320H-C2800 drivers.

I currently have 16 of these on 4 320/2800 drivers in a 10x10 and after this crop is done I'm getting 8 more 288s and 5 240-2100 drivers to add to it and rearrange things because it wasnt enough.
Here's a post I made about the upgrade.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/need-more-light-but-how-should-i-do-it.981690/

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Anyone got a spec on that Epistar 2835 660nm? I think this is it??...

They arent all Samsung diodes, the red ones are epistar I believe. They have the actual diode posted somewhere.

Also, the board itself and the traces have to be considered as well. The meijiu boards could possibly get hotter or not handle as much heat. It's possible they're just under rated, but that's not something I wanted to test myself. I dont have the stuff to do that safely so I just stick to manufacturers specs.

Aren't all the QBs made in China anyways? Just different stickers? Haha Do yours run @ 120w get hot? Did you go through Rita? Thanks for helping man

 

[fragileassassin]

Anyone got a spec on that Epistar 2835 660nm? I think this is it??...
View attachment 4256955



Aren't all the QBs made in China anyways? Just different stickers? Haha Do yours run @ 120w get hot? Did you go through Rita? Thanks for helping man

I dealt with kitty, different rep same company. Many have been happy with rita.
So far I have run mine all pretty low at 80w each and they're just a little warm to the touch, they dont make much heat that low.

 

[Randomblame]

QB 304 plus w 48 epistar 660nm..
View attachment 4256873 View attachment 4256874

What about these? @Randomblame do you think these would have that negative impact that you were describing?

Would work fine, bro!
I've made a mistake by using too much far-red for end of day treatment and over the day. 15 mins was simply too much and resulted in SAS. Far- and deep-reds were also driven on the same driver. But its much better to have the far-reds on its own driver to use them only together with the mainlight when the stretch is already done. I've used the deep-/far-red combi too early and have also used the 10w flower trigger for a too long period. It's a learning curve to work with additional far-reds and mainwhile I get far better results and no unwanted SAS anymore.
A 3000 or 4000°k + 660nm works very well indoors. There is nothing wrong with the white/deep red boards cuz they have no far-red like my old "stereo COB builds".
If you plan to use additional far-red be careful and don't use too much and do not use it from the beginning. If you use far-red the right way you have more control over nodial spacings, stretch and shape of the plants. Plants getting far red are also finishing faster.
I've a completely new light based on F-strips and COB's, far-reds and UVB bulbs but I've leaned a lot about far-red and how to use it properly. When you plan just to use this boards without far-red get them; there is nothing wrong with additional deep-red.
But Epistar means its not the most efficient deep red diode and I don't believe they increase the boards efficiency like a top bin Cree/Osram/... diode would do it. 48 more LM301b or 561c -or whatever they use- would deliever probably more usable light. When you add monochromatic diodes you need diodes with same or better efficiency. 30% efficient Epistar diodes can't make an LM301b board really better. You'll get a slightly better spectrum but over all board efficiency goes down!

I would also recommend to use two HLG-240's to drive each two boards on one driver they are cheaper and would offer more flexibillity.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Would work fine, bro!
I've made a mistake by using too much far-red for end of day treatment and over the day. 15 mins was simply too much and resulted in SAS. Far- and deep-reds were also driven on the same driver. But its much better to have the far-reds on its own driver to use them only together with the mainlight when the stretch is already done. I've used the deep-/far-red combi too early and have also used the 10w flower trigger for a too long period. It's a learning curve to work with additional far-reds and mainwhile I get far better results and no unwanted SAS anymore.
A 3000 or 4000°k + 660nm works very well indoors. There is nothing wrong with the white/deep red boards cuz they have no far-red like my old "stereo COB builds".
If you plan to use additional far-red be careful and don't use too much and do not use it from the beginning. If you use far-red the right way you have more control over nodial spacings, stretch and shape of the plants. Plants getting far red are also finishing faster.
I've a completely new light based on F-strips and COB's, far-reds and UVB bulbs but I've leaned a lot about far-red and how to use it properly. When you plan just to use this boards without far-red get them; there is nothing wrong with additional deep-red.
But Epistar means its not the most efficient deep red diode and I don't believe they increase the boards efficiency like a top bin Cree/Osram/... diode would do it. 48 more LM301b or 561c -or whatever they use- would deliever probably more usable light. When you add monochromatic diodes you need diodes with same or better efficiency. 30% efficient Epistar diodes can't make an LM301b board really better. You'll get a slightly better spectrum but over all board efficiency goes down!

I would also recommend to use two HLG-240's to drive each two boards on one driver they are cheaper and would offer more flexibillity.

These boards are so cheap, i think rita quoted around 20$ + shipping/taxes. I would pick 8 while youre at it, no heatsink to save $ on shipping and such, and then pick up 2x 350x1000mm sheets of 3mm aluminium (i had these for about 15$ each locally) and put 4 on each sheet with one hlg240h-c2100 to each fixture. Should ve similar cost but more diodes, less watts per board abd better spread.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

These boards are so cheap, i think rita quoted around 20$ + shipping/taxes. I would pick 8 while youre at it, no heatsink to save $ on shipping and such, and then pick up 2x 350x1000mm sheets of 3mm aluminium (i had these for about 15$ each locally) and put 4 on each sheet with one hlg240h-c2100 to each fixture. Should ve similar cost but more diodes, less watts per board abd better spread.

What's the limit on those boards you think before they need heatsinks? 75w to much without heatsink?

 

[Rocket Soul]

What's the limit on those boards you think before they need heatsinks? 75w to much without heatsink?

75, no. Pretty sure about that. I tend to figure out thermal management without hetsinks from area of the board. Ive been happy with my FoTops at between 150-200w with no heatsink and they are the size of 5 qbs. So 30ish? I got 4 similar at +50ish w and they definitely need sinking. Depends on your air movement and your frame as well as the acts like sink depending on design.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

75, no. Pretty sure about that. I tend to figure out thermal management without hetsinks from area of the board. Ive been happy with my FoTops at between 150-200w with no heatsink and they are the size of 5 qbs. So 30ish? I got 4 similar at +50ish w and they definitely need sinking. Depends on your air movement and your frame as well as the acts like sink depending on design.

I hear what you're saying. Thanks for the advice.

These lil boards had 30w to them w no heat sinking (aside from enclosed plastic light bulb housing), that's kinda why I was guessing that the bigger boards could handle 75w. The little boards have a tighter layout @ 1.03cm2 vs 1.64cm2 per diode and the little boards' diodes are twice the size in terms of power compared to the big QBs, 6v diodes vs 3v diodes. I don't want to run as hot as the little boards (.86w/cm2) but seems almost 6× less power per cm2 (.15w/cm2) should be ok given the little boards run 6× that 24/7 with no problem??? Where am I wrong, help me out??? Both boards cheap Chinese makes..

$0.80 - 30w (36) 6.0v diode board:
6.2cm × 6.0cm
37.2cm2 : 1.03cm2/diode
30w ÷ (37.2)cm2 = 0.86w/cm2


$27.50 - 304+ (304) 3.0v diode board:
28.6cm × 17.4cm
497cm2 : 1.64cm2/diode
75w ÷ (497)cm2 = 0.15w/cm2

 

[Dave455]

Is that your sleeping cot near tent ?

sorry I did not attach anything