amending as you go?

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Yea, many , many growers don't understand the relation between phosphorus, calcium and magnesium.
people buying "bloom buster" or "bud hardener" or whatever-the-fuck, and then they wonder why their leaves drop off like flies after..

I usually go with around a 3/1 or a 4/1 ratio of the cal to the magnesium for organics, but it's hard to tell how much they are really getting, since i topdress with comfrey a lot and my water is well water, so they have a good amount of calcium and magnesium being utilized.
But calcium for cannabis is damn near a macro nutrient, it's used a LOT, probably moreso than phosphorus.

i can tell you one thing though... don't use black strap molasses as a source of nutrients...
the ratio of cal to mag is inversely opposite to what you want, like 1/4 or so
i only point this out just in case anyone else is reading and to not confuse them

I understand you meant potassium, but you wrote phosphorus

don't worry I now what you meant ;-)


how do you go about figuring you ratios? do you use the % amounts for each element?
I understand what your saying, it really is going to change in the depending on the speed at each element degrades or decomposes into available mineral so theres no exact measurement like in hydro

but I cant help but wonder if theres still some meathod in an organic soil amendment that gets close enough to equalize the appropriate ratio

I supoose a soil test would tell you where your at but by then its a bit late

the amendments have % amounts listred for the available elements but im not sure how much of the magnesium comes out of the humus/compost/EWC
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
any thoughts on

beneficial bacteria additives specific to grow or bloom fazes

is there enough science to back up there claims that certain specific bacteria work more on breaking down and releasing P vs other that's work more on breaking down and releasing N

kelp4less has this brand called "RAW" microbes... for grow and another for bloom!
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
update


preparing new soil

1 cubic ft
2.5 gallons peat
2.5 gallons humus (compost/EWC)
2.5 gallons aeration (perlite)
1 cup lime (oyster shell/dolomite/egg shell) equal portion combined
3.5 cups mineral (basalt &/or granite rock dust)

amendment mix 2 cups total
1 part alfalfa 3-1-2
1 part crab meal 2-3-0
2 parts kelp meal 1-0-2
1/2 part fish meal 9-0-0

cook for 4+ weeks


full re amending soil
1 cubic ft soil
2.5 gallons humus (compost/EWC)
1.5 gallons aeration
1 oz gypsom
1 oz dolomite
1 cup mineral(basalt &/or granite rock dust)

amendment mix 1 cup total
1 part alfalfa
1 part crab meal
2 parts kelp meal
1/2 part fish meal

cook for 4+ weeks

amend as you go/partial re-amendment
(to achieve 2 consecutive grows without cooking)
top dress every 2 weeks
4 cups earth worm castings
1 tsp gypsum
1 tsp dolomite
1 oz amendment mix (same as above)

this is the same as the re-amendment mix except is is divided into 8 portions meant to be added every 2 weeks
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
any thoughts on

beneficial bacteria additives specific to grow or bloom fazes

is there enough science to back up there claims that certain specific bacteria work more on breaking down and releasing P vs other that's work more on breaking down and releasing N

kelp4less has this brand called "RAW" microbes... for grow and another for bloom!
meh... just another product to buy. I think going and getting a tbsp of indigenous soil and adding it to your worm bin and/or no till containers would be more beneficial. One tbsp from a mature field and one from an old growth forest. should boost your diversity of microlife in the soil. they will awaken and go to sleep on their own when their time is needed. biology is an amazing thing when you just let it happen :)
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
i only point this out just in case anyone else is reading and to not confuse them

I understand you meant potassium, but you wrote phosphorus

don't worry I now what you meant ;-)


how do you go about figuring you ratios? do you use the % amounts for each element?
I understand what your saying, it really is going to change in the depending on the speed at each element degrades or decomposes into available mineral so theres no exact measurement like in hydro

but I cant help but wonder if theres still some meathod in an organic soil amendment that gets close enough to equalize the appropriate ratio

I supoose a soil test would tell you where your at but by then its a bit late

the amendments have % amounts listred for the available elements but im not sure how much of the magnesium comes out of the humus/compost/EWC
any thoughts on

beneficial bacteria additives specific to grow or bloom fazes

is there enough science to back up there claims that certain specific bacteria work more on breaking down and releasing P vs other that's work more on breaking down and releasing N

kelp4less has this brand called "RAW" microbes... for grow and another for bloom!
What you're doing there, you're still thinking hydro :-P

Imagine instead, this root system.
The plant gives almost half of the energy it reaps from photosynthesis to the creatures living in the soil around its roots. And it does this purposefully and in specific formulations to promote the activity of those microbes that will harvest the specific nutrient it needs in that moment.
Processes firing throughout the root system at all times.
Scientists have found that response times are in the millisecond range? It's amazing!
And throughout that root system, in different spots different nutrients are being mined, all at the same time.
Those guys know what they're doing, they've been doing it for aeons!

The plant knows perfectly well what it needs and knows exactly how to get it, if the environment is provided for these natural processes to unfold.

YOU, human, are just the warden.
It's none of your business to meddle with that intricate system, as you know nothing.
Let the experts take care of the details as to when and exactly in which combination and amount!
You're there to make sure there is a good mix of nutrient sources, organic and mineral, good aeration, adequate humidity at their disposal so the microcosm living in that rhizoshpere can do its thing :p

And if there is one concept that can tide you over, it's balance.
And understanding that balance is a verb.
Trees sway in the wind.

In my experience, control-think is a sneaky thing and keeps creeping in. It's an underlying attitude, a fundamental angle we're seeing the world from, that needs changing in general if we want to continue living on this planet ;)

So when you really get into organics, as is the path you're going down right now, what you do is step back, stop doing, and instead observe - listen, look, and learn to understand what your plants, your soils, are telling you about the environment you're providing, and then just to tweak as needed - replenishing that buffet for the fat guy :p

An exciting, and endlessly amazing journey!
I wish you much joy on it! :bigjoint:
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
any thoughts on

beneficial bacteria additives specific to grow or bloom fazes
Get your wormbin started. Now. You'll feel much better in 4 months :mrgreen:

And yes there is lots of scientific study being done on the role of bacteria and fungi and what nutrients they mine/accumulate. It's only about 75,000 different bacteria, and some 25,000 fungi that have been identified to date, that we need to study so we have a good overview of what's going on :P

Get good compost and get that soil food web going in your soil.
Good meaning: aerobic microbial diversity, across all trophic levels of the ecosystem - bacteria and fungi, protozoans and nematodes, microarthropods and other hunters and shredders, and worms.
soilfoodweb_usda-nrcs.jpg
Reinnoculate with compost time and again, as there are various disturbances going on in your pots - the containment alone, the artificial light, possibly temperatures, dry air, weird water.... all take their toll on the health of the soil food web.

And then, trust :bigjoint:
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
reading on the worms now

thanks for the link
BTW, those microbes you were asking about? The worms will provide all of that, for free. Also, the humic and fulvic acid the soil/plant requires.

Of course there is way more than that, but those are two things you don't need to buy seperately, or be concerned about.
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
update;

preparing new soil
1 cubic ft
2.5 gallons peat
2.5 gallons humus (compost/EWC)
2.5 gallons aeration (perlite)
2 cups kelp meal 1-0-2
1 cup lime (oyster shell/dolomite/egg shell) equal portion combined
3.5 cups mineral (basalt &/or granite rock dust)

amendment mix 2 cups total
1 part alfalfa 3-1-2
1 part crab meal 2-3-0
1/2 part neem cake
1/2 part fish meal 9-0-0

cook for 4+ weeks


full re amending soil
1 cubic ft soil
2.5 gallons humus (compost/EWC)
1.5 gallons aeration
1 cup kelp meal
1 oz gypsom & 1oz dolomite
1 cup mineral(basalt &/or granite rock dust)

amendment mix 1 cup total
1 part alfalfa
1 part crab meal
1/2 part neem cake
1/2 part fish meal

cook for 4+ weeks

amend as you go/partial re-amendment
(to achieve 2 consecutive grows without cooking)
top dress every 2 weeks
4 cups earth worm castings
1 oz kelp meal
1 tsp gypsum & 1tsp dolomite
1 oz amendment mix (same as above)
 

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
update;

preparing new soil
1 cubic ft
2.5 gallons peat
2.5 gallons humus (compost/EWC)
2.5 gallons aeration (perlite)
2 cups kelp meal 1-0-2
1 cup lime (oyster shell/dolomite/egg shell) equal portion combined
3.5 cups mineral (basalt &/or granite rock dust)

amendment mix 2 cups total
1 part alfalfa 3-1-2
1 part crab meal 2-3-0
1/2 part neem cake
1/2 part fish meal 9-0-0

cook for 4+ weeks


full re amending soil
1 cubic ft soil
2.5 gallons humus (compost/EWC)
1.5 gallons aeration
1 cup kelp meal
1 oz gypsom & 1oz dolomite
1 cup mineral(basalt &/or granite rock dust)

amendment mix 1 cup total
1 part alfalfa
1 part crab meal
1/2 part neem cake
1/2 part fish meal

cook for 4+ weeks

amend as you go/partial re-amendment
(to achieve 2 consecutive grows without cooking)
top dress every 2 weeks
4 cups earth worm castings
1 oz kelp meal
1 tsp gypsum & 1tsp dolomite
1 oz amendment mix (same as above)

you will DEFINITELY not need to add 33% of the humus back to the mix when you break it all up. i'd say 15%, at the most 20% would be fine. i made the mistake of doing that in my first few runs and the soil got extremely heavy from all of the water holding capacity of the humus. just warning you now :)
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
you will DEFINITELY not need to add 33% of the humus back to the mix when you break it all up. i'd say 15%, at the most 20% would be fine. i made the mistake of doing that in my first few runs and the soil got extremely heavy from all of the water holding capacity of the humus. just warning you now :)
ok so cut it back to 2 cups
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
so read the bit about worm composting

it seems pretty straight forward and doesn't require as much space as id thought

im going to make the one with the reservoir below

I get the basic set up but I have a few questions;

and they may seem ignorant but I have to ask them

after you've let your waste cooking for 2 weeks and you've added your worms

how long will it take (roughly/safely) before your yielding usable plant compost?


does the worm compost take eliminate the need/desire to purchase EWC from the garden center or is there still a reason to use them in combo.... is your home grown worm compost better than whats in the garden center bag for EWC?

how do I estimate my needs relative to the size of my grow and the size of my compost bin/s
for example;
if I have four # 20 gallon pots with large 9 week veg 9 weeks bloom plants


after the compost is cooked and ready for use...what do you do with the worms?
do you pick them out and add them to your next bin...or toss them in the plant containers along with the compost and buy another (?)lbs of worms...
I wouldn't mind if I could just transfer them like my own little pets ..lol
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
you will DEFINITELY not need to add 33% of the humus back to the mix when you break it all up. i'd say 15%, at the most 20% would be fine. i made the mistake of doing that in my first few runs and the soil got extremely heavy from all of the water holding capacity of the humus. just warning you now :)
now that you mention it

the 3 cups I added a few days back

it did seem to make the top part of the pots more compact and slightly slow down the perk

good call
thanks
 

blunt_tip

Member
Hit up the vermicomposting thread!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/vermicomposters-unite-official-worm-farmers-thread.637587/

Basically, the worms will move in layers, towards the food source. So, once your bin is full, get your next bin ready, put some gloves on - move the worms/food layer on one side, so you can access the castings, and lay 1" of castings in the next bin, then move all the worms/compost on top of that. You should be left with only worm castings in the first bin, since the worms don't really hang out in that layer.

Some put coco in the bin, but I find it too expensive for my worms to chew on.

Just don't overfeed, since it's tempting to do so in the first weeks...
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
For a new, freshly started bin, figure on 4-6 months, realistically, for the first harvest.

Once a bin is in balance (there's that verb, again), with adults, juveniles, babies and eggs, every 3 months is realistic. When you order worms, it is mostly adults and some juvies and it takes some time for the population to increase.

Yes, you save the worms after every harvest for the next batch. I think the last time I bought worms was ~6 years ago.

You can also overfeed and overwater worms just like noobs usually do with their first plants. They are real LITFA animals. I seldom check on my bins more than every couple of weeks or so. They appreciate being left alone.
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
For a new, freshly started bin, figure on 4-6 months, realistically, for the first harvest.

Once a bin is in balance (there's that verb, again), with adults, juveniles, babies and eggs, every 3 months is realistic. When you order worms, it is mostly adults and some juvies and it takes some time for the population to increase.

Yes, you save the worms after every harvest for the next batch. I think the last time I bought worms was ~6 years ago.

You can also overfeed and overwater worms just like noobs usually do with their first plants. They are real LITFA animals. I seldom check on my bins more than every couple of weeks or so. They appreciate being left alone.
can you give me an example like
"X" size container/surface area will/should produce roughly "Y" gallons compost every 3months?
 
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