amending as you go?

do you move the worms from 1 bin into another when you harvest or do you just shift them from one side to another

im going to read threw the link blunt_tip provided some time today


itll likely answer some of these questions

im4satori said:

can you give me an example like
"X" size container/surface area will/should produce roughly "Y" gallons compost every 3months?

Click to expand...

No, I can't. Never even thought about it too much. Surface area is a big factor, but so is the amount of worms.

1k worms is usually what's bought (~1lb). My most established bin has close to 10x that amount, but most have ~5 or 6k worms in them (I have 5 bins going). I'll be starting 2 more bins because the one is way overcrowded.

I usually only harvest 2x/year, because, 5 bins and average ~12 gallons+ of VC per bin. The worms go back into the same bin (usually), with fresh bedding along with some of the bedding from the previous bin to inoculate the fresh bedding. I use a basic peat moss, perlite, lime, bedding that works well for me. Most commercial operations use similar, the upside is knowing exactly what all your inputs are.

Many use compost for bedding. I don't, because, inputs. I do add worms to my compost outside and let them sort it out there. Whatever way works best for you, but I don't have any unwanted pests in my bins brought in with outdoor stuff.

so would it be correct to say

your worms are processing or accelerating the decomp into available nutrient and mineral for plants

you then use the vermicast (is that right?) to feed your plants

and what you put into your worm bin dictates what mineral is in the result

I might need to take a few minutes to look up some of these terms on Wikipedia to make sure I using the proper words to get my question out

im sure this is more than simple and I honestly feel stupid not knowing it because its mother natures process

I get how to make the bin and feed the worms but not sure how to utilize the resulting compost

do I mix the soil mix the same way only replace the portion of store bought compost with my home made compost

do I still benefit from adding store bought EWC or do the vermipost omit it ?

or is the vermipost equal to the same thing as compost and worm casting in one

im4satori said:

do I mix the soil mix the same way only replace the portion of store bought compost with my home made compost

do I still benefit from adding store bought EWC or do the vermipost omit it ?

or is the vermipost equal to the same thing as compost and worm casting in one

Click to expand...

Keep it simple brudda, buildasoil.com has everything a beginner organic gardener will need to build his soil from scratch. They even have kits to build a complete soil.

Home made ewc are king but until you get your own farm and wait it out for the first harvest, you're better just buying a bag of ewc and set up the farm while you grow.

ok so
its basically making your own DIY E worm casting that im currently buying from the back

im4satori said:

does the worm compost take eliminate the need/desire to purchase EWC from the garden center or is there still a reason to use them in combo.... is your home grown worm compost better than whats in the garden center bag for EWC?

Click to expand...

Actually, having my own vermicompost (and being able to examine it under the microscope) opened my eyes to how bad the bagged stuff usually is
In fact, it gets near to impossible to find anything that is
1. usable, and if so,
2. worth the price being put on it.
Like the "worm casts" a garden center chain hereabouts is selling at 4€ per liter, whose microbial composition is to be found just as well, if not better, in a soil mix going at 4€ per 40 liters...

And then there's all the guesswork as to how a possibly great product was transported and stocked prior to your buying it.
Very sad!
Last year I found a bagged compost that was actually pretty good, and was hoping to get some more of it. But they had stocked the bags outdoors and it had rained profusely - so the compost had gotten totally soaked and was a stinking anaerobic mess from afar. No way I was going to put that into my gardens anymore

All that said, the one reason to still supplement with external compost is not having enough of your own for your purposes. I'm in that phase now, but hope to tweak my system as I go, getting production aligned with available inputs and needed amounts for the gardens - eventually giving me the autarchy I want.

Oh and harvest amounts also depend on your system overall -- for example, what do you eat, how much, how often?
Or in other words, how much input do you regularly have?
Embarassingly, I'm starting to eat more veggies primarily not for my own sake, but for the worms - because I need more vermicompost - what twisted motivation! lol
Interestingly however, I also enjoy eating stuff that was grown with vermicompost more - it tastes so much better than bought, even if it was organic! Leading to more voluntary consumption of healthy stuff -> more food for the worms -> more vermicompost -> more veggies, and so on

im4satori said:

after the compost is cooked and ready for use...what do you do with the worms?
do you pick them out and add them to your next bin...or toss them in the plant containers along with the compost and buy another (?)lbs of worms...
I wouldn't mind if I could just transfer them like my own little pets ..lol

Click to expand...

Yes they're pets, I talk to them when I go to meddle in their little world
Since I have mine in tiers, I let them finish the downstairs while already feeding fresh upstairs, so the idea is they move along, grazing. I am tending to a herd, even if it's in a box.
Still working on the best way to have them out of the stuff I want to harvest though, may just be a question of patience

im4satori said:

can you give me an example like
"X" size container/surface area will/should produce roughly "Y" gallons compost every 3months?

Click to expand...

This all depends on how good your conditions are for your worms. if they're optimal at all levels (temp, moisture, amount of scraps being added to the bin) you can expect the bin to be harvested 4x a year likely.

I just had my first run at a worm farm. started in the beginning of january, just got to my first harvest of castings this weekend. it was a 18 gallon tote that was probably 10-12 gal of bedding. after regular weekly feedings (not too much though) for the first 10-11 weeks, i then stopped adding scraps for the last 3 weeks before harvest to get them to work the bedding material pretty well. I yielded about 5-6 gal of compost from this initial run. i'm going to do one more run and make sure I have the process down, and also to let the colony continue to multiply. I would LOVE to get about 4 of these bins going. 20 gal of vermicompost 4x a year would be the tits! i will also add that the castings my worms produces are the softest and nicest castings i've ever put my hands on!

and also, your own vermicompost (when done correctly) is waaaaaaaaaayyyyy better than anything you can get in most stores.

a good source of EWC online is from worm power worm castings. really recommend them and the product is beautiful and quality. you can get about 60 lbs shipped to your door for 120$ or something.

ok that helps tremendously
@ShLUbY
@calliandra
@greasemonkeymann
@blunt_tip

thank you, thank you

itll give be a base line or starting point
so im just going to start out with three --- 15 gallon bins and let it grow naturally fazing out the store bought composts as it grows

believe it or not its starting to all register,
for me theres a whole new set of terms to learn
all the sources of food are different and then there rate of decomp to consider
so when I read to long I get on over loaded and things don't always register, but I go back and read it again the next day after a night of thought and it computes

whats the ideal ambient temp range for my new pets??

im going to start adding food scraps and card board to the bins for about ten days before I order the worms

I have the old hydro trays sitting around not being used

a 2ft x 4ft tray will hold three 15gallon Rubbermaid tubs

the 15 gallon tubs are small enough for me to carry and move in or out different times of year

the tray has a drain spout, I will have it drain into a bucket below

im thinking I might put it just outside the pront door on the open lanai

except, is it going to be fowl and will it attract bugs and critters... maybe I should just keep it in the basement always to avoid bugs and critters?

how fowl will it get?
if I leave the basement door open to the house is it going to stink?

I guess I should go ahead and add an air pump to the drain bucket ah

im4satori said:

ok that helps tremendously
@ShLUbY
@calliandra
@greasemonkeymann
@blunt_tip

thank you, thank you

itll give be a base line or starting point
so im just going to start out with three --- 15 gallon bins and let it grow naturally fazing out the store bought composts as it grows

believe it or not its starting to all register,
for me theres a whole new set of terms to learn
all the sources of food are different and then there rate of decomp to consider
so when I read to long I get on over loaded and things don't always register, but I go back and read it again the next day after a night of thought and it computes

whats the ideal ambient temp range for my new pets??

im going to start adding food scraps and card board to the bins for about ten days before I order the worms

Click to expand...

nah man, don't start the worm bin with anything other than damp cardboard or wet leaves, the worms won't eat for a bit, and you don't want food in there until about 3-5 days after you get the worms, if they get hungry they'll have the wet cardboard or leaves.
but food in there early will lead to problems.
for me the temps they do fine in are from 45-95.
that's the temps in which I've noticed no losses.
above 95 or of its in the 90s in the sun or if it's dry they'll be toast.
i have them under my house when it's hot.
but even my compost pile (which has probably 100x the worms in it) stays "alive" in the high 90s.
key is to make SURE you have three or four layers of wet cardboard on the top in the high heat (this actually kicks ass for high temp cannabis grows too)
i have my wormbin in large smartpots.

Ideal temps are 55-85 or so.

ok
ive got some mj fan leaves and trimmings...along with card board and damp

let it sit for 2 weeks , add the worms and damp card board cover, add some veggies several days later and build layers as the herd grows

what about the amendment mix additions?
alfalfa
fish meal
crab meal
rock dust

peat
coco

im4satori said:

i only point this out just in case anyone else is reading and to not confuse them

I understand you meant potassium, but you wrote phosphorus

don't worry I now what you meant


how do you go about figuring you ratios? do you use the % amounts for each element?
I understand what your saying, it really is going to change in the depending on the speed at each element degrades or decomposes into available mineral so theres no exact measurement like in hydro

but I cant help but wonder if theres still some meathod in an organic soil amendment that gets close enough to equalize the appropriate ratio

I supoose a soil test would tell you where your at but by then its a bit late

the amendments have % amounts listred for the available elements but im not sure how much of the magnesium comes out of the humus/compost/EWC

Click to expand...

yea, my brain has been doing that more recently, i got a cold and i haven't been sick in like two yrs, and this one is fuckin up my sleep.
but yea, phosphorus is an anion, and for the most part unrelated to cations like potassium
oops...

im4satori said:

ok
ive got some mj fan leaves and trimmings...along with card board and damp

let it sit for 2 weeks , add the worms and damp card board cover, add some veggies several days later and build layers as the herd grows

what about the amendment mix additions?
alfalfa
fish meal
crab meal
rock dust

peat
coco

Click to expand...

yes, that's what i'd do, but remember that the worms eat VERY little. even my massive compost bin with tons of worms in it gets no more than 3-4 fruits at a time.
ALWAYS better to underfeed them than over.
That's another good reason to have lots of wet cardboard in there too, so if they do run dry on food you are still good.
but feed once a week or so, and always verify the last week's food is gone before adding more.
always dig a hole in the bin first, then plop in the fruit (preferably frozen then rethawed)
at first it's better to get a heavy duty plastic freezer ziplock to put your veggies/fruits in the freezer overnight, then take the bag out a good 8 hrs before using it, squish it around in your hands, the bag will keep it un-messy.
then dig a hole, plop it in, and cover it.
no smells, no mess, and the worms will process it much faster that way

greasemonkeymann said:

yes, that's what i'd do, but remember that the worms eat VERY little. even my massive compost bin with tons of worms in it gets no more than 3-4 fruits at a time.
ALWAYS better to underfeed them than over.
That's another good reason to have lots of wet cardboard in there too, so if they do run dry on food you are still good.
but feed once a week or so, and always verify the last week's food is gone before adding more.
always dig a hole in the bin first, then plop in the fruit (preferably frozen then rethawed)

Click to expand...

gotcha

ok...so I only add the my left over fruits and veggies if the previous group is gone
ok so im literally just adding enough food for them to consume within the feeding period and not again until is about gone

the more worms, the more food they'll consume

just so I understand

(BASE) damp coco, peat, and card board are ok to layer in before the worms arrive and theres no risk in over doing

(FOOD)fruit and veggies scraps only as needed and not to be over done

how much of the amendment mix is safe to feed them at any given time?
alfalfa
fishmeal
crabshell
equal part combined?
and would this be considered food or base?

im guessing maybe 2oz a month?????

im4satori said:

just so I understand

(BASE) damp coco, peat, and card board are ok to layer in before the worms arrive and theres no risk in over doing

(FOOD)fruit and veggies scraps only as needed and not to be over done

how much of the amendment mix is safe to feed them at any given time?
alfalfa
fishmeal
crabshell
equal part combined?
and would this be considered food or base?

im guessing maybe 2oz a month?????

Click to expand...

ah, i don't know about that, i don't feed the worms any plant nutrients, just fruits and veggies.
i wouldn't give them any of that, minus maybe the alfalfa.
wouldn't hurt to add a sprinkling of either finely crushed egg shells or oyster shell flour in there for their digestive system

im4satori said:

just so I understand

(BASE) damp coco, peat, and card board are ok to layer in before the worms arrive and theres no risk in over doing

(FOOD)fruit and veggies scraps only as needed and not to be over done

how much of the amendment mix is safe to feed them at any given time?
alfalfa
fishmeal
crabshell
equal part combined?
and would this be considered food or base?

im guessing maybe 2oz a month?????

Click to expand...

THink of the bedding as the "woody" part of the compost, the fresh stuff you add on a consumption basis usually is high in nitrogen and could be considered the "green" part of your compost.
You ARE composting here, after all -- just with worms, not thermally.

So when in doubt, check out the C:N ratio of whatever you're about to add, and when it starts getting to 30 and under (if you must have numbers ) be careful as to how much you're adding. Because microbes go crazy over hi N inputs, and can heat up your bin like nothing.

Personally, the only "amendment" per se I add is ground eggshells, very occasionally, just a sprinkling over a feeding, like so:

(I'm experimenting with small frequent feeds at the mo, will be moving back to weekly and decent amounts, I prefer the ebb and flow feel of that).

And yes, I'd consider fishmeal & alfalfa as greens, both could be very hi N - under the right conditions
So you can't throw stuff in there like on schedule, but will want to monitor how your actions play out, especially when trying out new stuff