Ayone had problems with Indonesian Bat Guano?

I use it sparingly, but I swear its burning up my plants. Seems like salt damage real bad after I use it. From the bottom up my leaves yellow, crinkle and brown up and fall off. Its the first time Ive used it cus I wanted some more phosphorus.

I've never had a problem with it directly.


Are you feeding the plants other nutrients as well?
are you monitoring your soil ph?
did you calculate how much to place for your particular application? this can be pretty strong stuff, and the directions are really vague and confusing.

I do use other fertilizers. I use Fish Emulsion, Alaska 0-10-10 bloom, and Micro Nutes. Also trying a little molasses. Ive been very consevitive with them compared to my outdoor grows. This is my first indoor. I dont adjust PH, I think if I had bigger pots I would have more margin for error. Next time Im gonna go with way more soil per plant. I have a cheap soil meter, and everything seems exceptable. I might be a little high. Upper 7s. Maybe its just N deficiency. I dont know. Ive tried it all, flushing seems to help. But then I need more N. Ive never used N like this in Bloom.

you have 2 problems. One your not monitoring your ph. That will cause lockout on your plants ability to absorb nuts. I suggest getting a digital ph and keep it 6.3-6.5 for all and you will be just fine. Otherwise problems will continue. You most likely are over nuting your plants as well. Always under nut. till your experience grows then add. Go with one grow nut. if you don't use ff ocean forest. If you use ffof you dont need anything for a month. I have had great luck with seabird guano in grow and as an addition for flower cycle.. It is in pellet form kind of slow releass. I use a pencil to dig 3 indeep holes and put a few pellets in about 3 holes. plants green as can be in flower. good luck

yeah, the actual bat quano apparently will WRECK your ph, I forget which way it swings it, but you have to monitor it. you could make a High Phos. bat guano tea, and adjust the ph of the solution before feeding..

Yeah, it tastes horrible!

businessmen said:

I do use other fertilizers. I use Fish Emulsion, Alaska 0-10-10 bloom, and Micro Nutes.

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More then likely they need more N as you said. If you use a 0-10-10, and a 0-10-0 bone, then you will need to decrease the PK to allow the N to do its job........OR up the N bigtime to match all the pk your feedin um.

which medium are you using? If its a mj medium like ffof or almost any other dirt, then dont even worry about the ph , it will just confuse you more. This website is FULL of folks who demand their ph is right but you cannot just change the ph in dirt with ph up or down. It just dont work that way.
I would just use the alaska bloom and blood meal or alot of fish emultions. I bet any ammount of loot that they are just starvin for N , thats all. That is a very common prob for organics.
Organics is very hard to master , and if its your first time then either stick it out and really learn it, or go to hydro or dirt with in-organic foods and it will be much easier.
Also bone meal is kind of a slow release food so dont just keep putting more in. It will build up and kill off the microlife in the soil. (the microlife is what eats the organic foods and makes the food readily available to plants)



wb

Thanks Wyteboi. Im not using bone, well i did put in some a long time ago. Normally I dont believe the hype about PH! But Im at a loss. Im using a new soil, I like supersoil, but this is sunshine pro. And Ive never done the indo bat guano or molasses. I garden organics ALOT. Never indoor. I hit em with some epsom salts foliar today also. And watered in yesterday with iron sulfate and then for good measure a bunch of vinegar in distilled water. I wish I didnt do so much, It didnt matter how much I added after I put in a little. The PH of the water wanted to stay about 5. It stinks like vinegar now. Hope it doesnt fuck em up. I agree, you cant change soil PH with PH up or down. I dont know why people bother. The ph lowererd for a few minutes in my soil after both soaks of acidic water.

i dont know much about vinagar and what its for but i know my buddy killed one on purpose with that shit............get it out of your water! whatever you read about vinagar is a myth! that shit dont belong in a garden unless you know exactly what/why your doing it. It is very hard to flush a good organic soil, so i would let it dry ALL the way out then run a few gallons of water through it.
Your new soil can be your biggest prob. I dont know if your using organic food or not but if u are then you will have to add something to that sunshine so its not just peat moss. That peat aint worth a fuck for organics unless you add at least 20% castings or compost. I have been having the same probs with promix. To fix my probs i used a dose or 2 of all purpose MG plant food 24-8-16. That made um green again now i have to figure out how to keep um green with organic food. Once you get them flushed the best u can then use a huge helping of fish emultion. (if it says 1tbsp then use 2) mix that fish with a couple teaspoons of molasses. we gotta make that dirt a better enviroment for the microbes. The best thing u could do is repot them into a sunshine/casting or compost mix. They will react very fast to the new dirt. Next time dont leave the blood meal out. (Blood, bone, kelp meal , castings and sunshine(maybe perlite) would be better then any dirt they can sell u.

You CAN fix pH problems in soil with the addition of dolomitic lime. it buffers it as well. once you get it back in range you should be good.

vinegar is NOT a myth lol it exists! way acidic though wyteboi is right about too much P&K locking out N

#1. Rule of thumb:
In veg, "N" should double "P" & "K".
In flower, "P" should double "N" & "K".
The plant still needs Nitrogen in flower, just a whole lot less of it!

#2. Believe the problems that pH can cause - it's not just hype!

Thank you for all the advice. Im fucking ashamed of this grow, but really need to salvage. Vinegar is to lower ph. U sure your buddy killed plants with it? Was it diluted? I forgot to mention i did also add some granular organic all purpose with beneficial microbes to the promix(4-4-4)

Man I just used that guano on another group of plants and I see it doing the same thing to them now. Starting with yellowing of the lower leaves. Then most start browing and crinkling. Wish I had a pic of these when I took them outa the cabinet. Seeing them from above is when I really noticed they had yellowing of the tops. Made me think sulfur deficiency, maybe cus I flushed it out or PH lockout. Weird cus the lower buds, sorta middle of the plant still green. I tried giving em N a whille back, they got worse. I also gave more bat guano, and they really got worse.

PlantManBee said:

You CAN fix pH problems in soil with the addition of dolomitic lime. it buffers it as well. once you get it back in range you should be good.
vinegar is NOT a myth lol it exists! way acidic though wyteboi is right about too much P&K locking out N

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Yea bee , you are right about both.
It is just very hard to correct a soil ph problem without re-planting into a soil with the lime already added. Its very hard to add the correct amount to an existing pot because the ph of the water will read the same no matter how much lime u add. The dolomite lime is a great buffer for soil. Its not a "ph up" so it wont keep rising.
And the vinegar is not a myth but it is way too hard to use so it will be more of a problem then it will help. (unless you have done it and you know what you are doing )

T.H.Cammo said:

#2. Believe the problems that pH can cause - it's not just hype!

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Yes i agree , thats why we have to start with the right medium when using dirt. You cannot make an acidic peat moss more "basic" by ph'ing the water , thats all i am saying. You can water with a ph of 9 all day and after a few minutes of sitting/buffering in the peat it will be right back to 5.0 or lower.

businessmen said:

Thank you for all the advice. Im fucking ashamed of this grow, but really need to salvage. Vinegar is to lower ph. U sure your buddy killed plants with it? Was it diluted? I forgot to mention i did also add some granular organic all purpose with beneficial microbes to the promix(4-4-4)

Man I just used that guano on another group of plants and I see it doing the same thing to them now. Starting with yellowing of the lower leaves. Then most start browing and crinkling. Wish I had a pic of these when I took them outa the cabinet. Seeing them from above is when I really noticed they had yellowing of the tops. Made me think sulfur deficiency, maybe cus I flushed it out or PH lockout. Weird cus the lower buds, sorta middle of the plant still green. I tried giving em N a whille back, they got worse. I also gave more bat guano, and they really got worse.

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Yes my buddy killed um , he did it on purpose though. A tiny bit might not hurt (i wouldnt do it) but alot can be deadly.
First you have to add up all your foods and see what you are feeding um. You have to get the ratio of npk somewhat close. So far if you are just using the quano then there is no N in there and the promix has no N either, so no matter what you would need more n. You could have multiple problems and n might not fix all of them but you have to have it or they wont grow. That 4-4-4 should help you right along. Those pics show a huge n def. but since the flower looks pretty good you had to have used n somewhere in there. Also that quano is slow release so you probably dont need any more just yet.
Is the 4-4-4 water soluble? well i guess not because u said there were bacteria in there with it. If you were to take all your babies and replant them into promix and 30% or more compost or worm castings then you would see a difference in a week or 2.
I was having the same exact probs with promix until i figured out that shit is kinda like hydro rocks , if you were to run up to the wolly world and pick up some MG 24-8-16 all purpose water soluble food then you will probably notice the green come back after one single dose.
I have been using teas to keep my ones in promix green, and it seems to be going well, but the only reason they turned green in the first place was from a dose of synthetic food. and if they start yellowing out again then another dose of chems.
I been fuckin with promix and organic foods for a couple years now and its a waste of time. I took some used promix and mixed it with worm castings and a few other goodies and they are doing great with just organic food only.

wb

here is some horrid shots of a couple different strains in promix feeding with organics.

I will come back and show some of the pics of after i used the soluble food.
Before we started all this organic shit , i used to just use MG potting mix and blood/bone meal with great results.

Well I think I killed em. Ive been so ashamed of my skills. Ive grown weed outdoors and have grown fruit trees and vegetables for 10 years. Never abused plants so bad before. Just was desperate, and Ive used all these things before, cant believe I used so much vinegar tho.

The leaves started culing up at the tips bad yesterday. So I took em out to flush today. They are getting limp and stems bending. Think I need to just harvest and dry while the buds are still useable. I sprayed with some diluted epsom salts yesterday. I dont think its N they wanted, the leaves wouldnt fry like that. And the past week the tops got yellow. Also I gave them fish emulsion twice and didnt help. When they were vegging I burnt them a little with that, so I dont see how promix keeps organics from working. Depends on if they are soluable mostly, what form they are in.

I dont know what happened, just finally sure I wont use the guano again. When they first got sick I thought it was salt buildup, cus I wasnt letting any runnoff. But this other batch of plants I have are geting the same symptoms after using some guano, and they always get runnoff.

wyteboi said:

I been fuckin with promix and organic foods for a couple years now and its a waste of time. I took some used promix and mixed it with worm castings and a few other goodies and they are doing great with just organic food only.
wb

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I've been using a peat based mix of my own for years. From what I've read, it is very similar to Pro Mix. Mine is just peat moss, perlite, and pine bark nuggets and added 'stuff'.

I also re use it, and over the years, noticed the used stuff worked better than the fresh.

What I do now, is mix up a batch, add my meals, WC, blood, bone, kelp, lime and so on, moisten it slightly and let it cook for a month or so. I do a wheelbarrow at a time and it comes out to ~20-30 gallons. I cook it in a garbage can with lid just for that purpose.

That covers most, but not all of it it seems. I will do tweaks with chem ferts, usually Jack's AP 20-20-20 or Orchid special 30-10-10.

Slight or infrequent use of the chems doesn't seem to affect the micro biology at all and it's usually just to give them a shot of N, and usually 1/4 to 1/2 strength.

Seems like every time I try to add N with a top dressing or tea with something like Blood meal or the like, I end up burning them some. If it's broken down from cooking or used soil type of thing, it doesn't seem to be as much of a problem.

I'm still learning and tweaking. Used to be Jack's (Peters), only and only lime added to the mix. Epsom Salts was added as needed.

Wet

You can change PH with water if you have alot of lime or alkaline water over time. I think Ive gone from shame, to disbelief, to remorse. I tried to post cell phone pics but couldnt get them saved to my computer. 8 weeks in tommorow, Super Skunk shoulda been done

businessmen said:

Well I think I killed em. Ive been so ashamed of my skills. Ive grown weed outdoors and have grown fruit trees and vegetables for 10 years. Never abused plants so bad before. Just was desperate, and Ive used all these things before, cant believe I used so much vinegar tho.

The leaves started culing up at the tips bad yesterday. So I took em out to flush today. They are getting limp and stems bending. Think I need to just harvest and dry while the buds are still useable. I sprayed with some diluted epsom salts yesterday. I dont think its N they wanted, the leaves wouldnt fry like that. And the past week the tops got yellow. Also I gave them fish emulsion twice and didnt help. When they were vegging I burnt them a little with that, so I dont see how promix keeps organics from working. Depends on if they are soluable mostly, what form they are in.

I dont know what happened, just finally sure I wont use the guano again. When they first got sick I thought it was salt buildup, cus I wasnt letting any runnoff. But this other batch of plants I have are geting the same symptoms after using some guano, and they always get runnoff.

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i been going for over 10 years myself and i was very ashamed of my skills when i switched to liquid organic foods , but after a few fuckups i think i got i figured out now. Fish emultion is not soluble unless microbes have broke it down in the bottle but i dont think so. If you look at those pics you can see "fried" leaves and it was ALL from a lack of N.
I am definatly not trying to get you to go organic , just sharing my knowlege on organics and it seems all the foods you are using are organic. It seems you are completely locked out right now (major and minor nutes) So i am not saying that N is a cure all, i am saying you cannot use a 0-10-10 or a 0-10-0 and get good results.
I am also saying a fresh batch of promix without adding anything will not work good with organic food. If you wanna go through all the hell i have then go ahead OR you could run and grab some synthetic food with a normal npk ratio and see very fast results.
OR if u wanna stick to organics then you could add compost or EWC and you will have all the humic/fulvic acids , and bacteria needed to break down all the food.

Wetdog said:

I've been using a peat based mix of my own for years. From what I've read, it is very similar to Pro Mix. Mine is just peat moss, perlite, and pine bark nuggets and added 'stuff'.

I also re use it, and over the years, noticed the used stuff worked better than the fresh.


Wet

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they have promix with pine bark in it but i never see that type at the nursery's. only hp and bx. I am pretty sure that pine bark has properties that pure peat moss does not have so that should help to make a good soil.
As far as reusing , i think it will continue to get better because the peat and other organic matter gets broken down more and more until it is humus , just like WC and compost. eventually it will turn into a rich soil.
"cooking" the soil and reusing is probably the best thing to do no matter what. (for organics)

businessmen said:

You can change PH with water if you have alot of lime or alkaline water over time.

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Yes a VERY long period of time will raise the ph. Lime will do it quicker but we have no idea how much to use. It really needs to be mixed with soil to buffer proper. (3 months aint long enough with just "basic" (alkaline) water)
Your promix probably has dolomite lime in it, so why would you think your ph is off?