Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in the US

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I'm not doing that. Your excessively high standards are doing it.

Free college for all is extremely progressive, especially as implemented by New York just a week ago.

Yet you smear it.

Double standard much?
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hold on. not wanting to see college educated black people make less than the same college educated whites is an "excessively high standard" now?

jesusfuck.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you just keep repeating yourself in the face of demonstrable facts to the contrary.

it was put to a vote in a fairly liberal state. it lost 80-20.
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What about the rest of those policies?

I noticed you pointedly ignoring them. Again.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
"Is the DNC on board with medicare for all, Tom?"

"Well, ya know, we wanna make sure healthcare is a right it's not a privilege and that's why we fought for the Affordable Care Act, that's why we wanna continue to expand it. We wanna make sure that everybody, and the Affordable Care Act has made tremendous progress. We have more work to do. And I think that the unity, Chris, that we've shown in the recent efforts by uh, Trump, to repeal the Affordable Care Act have been an energizing force for Democrats, Independents, others who share the values of inclusion and opportunity, and, and, healthcare is absolutely a right in this country, or should be, uh, it shouldn't be a privilege and ugh, ugh, it obviously we believe that as Democrats, Republicans don't appear to believe that."

...
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Mealy mouthed drivel. I'm sorry, but that's weak.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
When there is a viable candidate who actually supports it. Establishment Democrats don't support single payer, they support the Affordable Care Act because that's what their donors support. The insurance companies who benefit the most.
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And this shit will continue until Citizens United is abolished, by any means necessary.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Why do most voters support single payer healthcare, including 46% of Republicans? Why do most voters support raising the minimum wage to a living wage? Universal college? Paid maternity leave and paid time off? All of these are progressive positions.

You're claiming that since Republicans have done better than Democrats politically, especially since Obama has been president (more than 1,000 seats lost to Republicans across the country), that's evidence that the country is more conservative.

So tell me how you know that? How do you know voters didn't just vote out the Democrats in office for the Republican because they felt like the Democratic representative they elected didn't actually represent them or their interests? What makes you attribute the loss of Democratic seats across the country to a more conservative leaning public when the polls show that most Americans support progressive policies?
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What I said:

. Most states in this country vote for right wing candidates.

The above is word for word what I said. The evidence is in the vote count. The fact is that most States voted for right wing candidates in 2016. I made no claim that this proves the country is more conservative. You said that. I repeat, I said that most states voted for right wing candidates. Your theory that the majority of voters in this country are not conservative depends on this not being true.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
What I said:

. Most states in this country vote for right wing candidates.

The above is word for word what I said. The evidence is in the vote count. The fact is that most States voted for right wing candidates in 2016. I made no claim that this proves the country is more conservative. You said that. I repeat, I said that most states voted for right wing candidates. Your theory that the majority of voters in this country are not conservative depends on somehow this not being true.
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I think the Establishment Democratic Party made a bunch of promises it didn't keep and the electorate got so fed up that they voted for the opposition, no matter how odious.

That's a lot different than conservative. Many Chump voters believed his rhetoric and voted for it. We know he lied and we know he said those things just to get elected.

That doesn't prove the country is conservative. Just shagged.

Now there's an historic opportunity for the Democrats to turn things around and they're fumbling the ball badly. Why?

Because they don't want to upset their donors... the same donors who also spend money on Republican candidates.

Citizens United has hamstrung our democracy: The top 1% has their representation- Republicans- the next 9% has their representation- the Establishment Democratic Party- and the rest of us have no representation.

Our political system is now 'get rich to be heard' or 'shut up if you want to keep your underpaid insult of a job, bitch!'
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The fact is that most States voted for right wing candidates in 2016. I made no claim that this proves the country is more conservative.
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Then what was the implication you were attempting to make stating that most states voted for right wing candidates in 2016?

What is the point of stating that if not to imply that you believe, based on this information, that most American voters are conservative?

You're opposing my assertion that most American voters are in fact progressive based on the poll numbers of the policies they support
Fogdog said:
You said that. I repeat, I said that most states voted for right wing candidates. Your theory that the majority of voters in this country are not conservative depends on this not being true.
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How do you know voters who previously voted Democratic didn't switch to vote for the Republican candidate because they felt the Democrat didn't actually represent them?

Can you answer that without more bullshit attached to it or not? It's a simple question. How do you know people didn't switch because the felt their representative didn't actually represent them? You don't because you can't because it's an impossible thing to know. Yet here you are, stating the opposite.

You're saying people voted conservative because that's what they believe, yet every poll shows otherwise. So if they support progressive policies, why did they vote against the Democrat?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Then what was the implication you were attempting to make stating that most states voted for right wing candidates in 2016?

What is the point of stating that if not to imply that you believe, based on this information, that most American voters are conservative?

You're opposing my assertion that most American voters are in fact progressive based on the poll numbers of the policies they support

How do you know voters who previously voted Democratic didn't switch to vote for the Republican candidate because they felt the Democrat didn't actually represent them?

Can you answer that without more bullshit attached to it or not? It's a simple question. How do you know people didn't switch because the felt their representative didn't actually represent them? You don't because you can't because it's an impossible thing to know. Yet here you are, stating the opposite.

You're saying people voted conservative because that's what they believe, yet every poll shows otherwise. So if they support progressive policies, why did they vote against the Democrat?
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Because the current Establishment Democratic Party does not represent the average American citizen, and hasn't since at least Bill Clinton.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Because the current Establishment Democratic Party does not represent the average American citizen, and hasn't since at least Bill Clinton.
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Before Bill Clinton, I'd venture to say the Democratic party hasn't actually represented working class voters since Jimmy Carter was in office. Bill Clinton was a neoliberal who supported welfare reform, NAFTA, and tough on crime legislation.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Grandpapy said:
View attachment 3928497

It's kind of hard to fuck someone over if you are equally educated.
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Quite. So let's build the foundation of prosperity and let the people climb as high as their abilities let them.

  • Tax the rich. They benefit from American prosperity, they can help pay for it.
  • Phase out tax breaks for upper incomes.
  • Tax corporations, no more special giveaways and subsidies.
  • Let's make sure that tax on hourly wages are the LOWEST and not the highest.
  • Social security taxes should not be capped.
  • Eliminate trust funds to avoid inheritance taxes, and they need to be as high as 60% on billionaires.
  • Less income taxes and more Value Added Tax.
  • No taxes on the first $2000/month, plus $500/child
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Quite. So let's build the foundation of prosperity and let the people climb as high as their abilities let them.

  • Tax the rich. They benefit from American prosperity, they can help pay for it.
  • Phase out tax breaks for upper incomes.
  • Tax corporations, no more special giveaways and subsidies.
  • Let's make sure that tax on hourly wages are the LOWEST and not the highest.
  • Social security taxes should not be capped.
  • Eliminate trust funds to avoid inheritance taxes, and they need to be as high as 60% on billionaires.
  • Less income taxes and more Value Added Tax.
  • No taxes on the first $2000/month, plus $500/child
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Can't disagree, but I will say that most European countries have both high income taxes and VAT.

I mention Europe because they have a VAT requirement for members.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Can't disagree, but I will say that most European countries have both high income taxes and VAT.

I mention Europe because they have a VAT requirement for members.
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America needs high taxes for a few years in order to pay down our outrageous debt.

We could get a big tailwind by putting the Military Industrial Complex on a serious diet.
 
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