tip top toker
Well-Known Member
No, as in the royal "you". It's one of those small things that always irks me, when people don't understand when to use words such as "need".
Calcium nitrate and why you NEED it.
- Thread starter churchhaze
- Start date
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I used the word "need" on purpose. Even in soil, nitrifying bacteria are needed to produce nitrates which then substitute with the carbonates, releasing CO2 as a gas, ultimately leaving you with calcium nitrate in the soil for the plant to take up.
I don't mean "need" in the sense of needing additional. Most hydroponic formulas already have enough calcium and do not need to be supplemented. They are already based mostly on calcium nitrate by mass and have enough calcium.
For most people here, cal-mag+ could be omitted entirely and they'd do just fine.
I don't mean "need" in the sense of needing additional. Most hydroponic formulas already have enough calcium and do not need to be supplemented. They are already based mostly on calcium nitrate by mass and have enough calcium.
For most people here, cal-mag+ could be omitted entirely and they'd do just fine.
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Aeroknow
Well-Known Member
I've rarely needed cal-mag, when growing at locations that had a decent amount of both, in the tap water to start. I've had some Mg hogs. Adding it via epsom salts, and yes, Cal-mag, fixed the deficiencies.
I find cal-mag to be most useful when starting with RO or soft water. Especially if growing in coco.
I find cal-mag to be most useful when starting with RO or soft water. Especially if growing in coco.
941mick
Well-Known Member
What you mean the non water soluble calcium carbonates that almost ever water treatment center uses does the job???
941mick
Well-Known Member
I believe I got a lecture from someone on plant respiration the other day, but I guess they didn't know the citric acid cycle that occurs because of respiration can break down the calcium carbonate and make it available. I'm not talking about anyone here on this thread, Im just referencing the debate
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
There's a reason I said this, and I'm sticking to it;
It's much harder to get proper ratios of macro and micro nutrients while using cal-mag. It's just an order of magnitude easier to use calcium nitrate and epsom salts. This is especially true in RDWC where everything has to be fully chelated and water soluble.
Aeroknow
Well-Known Member
Well ok then! Touché! Lol
But I do tell you this:
I started taking growing indoor seriously around 24-25yrs ago. A short time after that, I came up with a RDWC/nft setup(very similar to the now aeroflo). I never had any problems until buying into that RO is the best thing since sliced bread. I started experiencing deficiencies. Then I read somewhere(I think on newsgroups) about putting back the cal-mag that the
RO striped the water of. Deficiencies went away.
And then like i hinted to in a different post, my plants love that shit, growing in coco, and my water is only 50ppm outta the tap. Very soft water. I add 1/2 tsp per gallon, and it ends up being a huge difference in the overall health if my crops. Allot of my setups out there have absolutely no need for additional Ca or Mg. Peace!
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
If you use the GH flora 3 part (I think that was you), the "micro" bottle's main ingredient is calcium nitrate.
That bottle provides all the necessary calcium. If using RO, just use slightly more of the "micro" bottle than you're used to.
I learned to grow using flora 3 part, but now I only get raw salts and use hydrobuddy to calculate how much of each to use to get desired ratios. If going the bottle route, there's no need for any other bottles than the 3 part.
That bottle provides all the necessary calcium. If using RO, just use slightly more of the "micro" bottle than you're used to.
I learned to grow using flora 3 part, but now I only get raw salts and use hydrobuddy to calculate how much of each to use to get desired ratios. If going the bottle route, there's no need for any other bottles than the 3 part.
Well ok then! Touché! Lol
But I do tell you this:
I started taking growing indoor seriously around 24-25yrs ago. A short time after that, I came up with a RDWC/nft setup(very similar to the now aeroflo). I never had any problems until buying into that RO is the best thing since sliced bread. I started experiencing deficiencies. Then I read somewhere(I think on newsgroups) about putting back the cal-mag that the
RO striped the water of. Deficiencies went away.
And then like i hinted to in a different post, my plants love that shit, growing in coco, and my water is only 50ppm outta the tap. Very soft water. I add 1/2 tsp per gallon, and it ends up being a huge difference in the overall health if my crops. Allot of my setups out there have absolutely no need for additional Ca or Mg. Peace!
Aeroknow
Well-Known Member
Yeah, true that!
You know, I do know that theoretically I could just pump up the micro even more. But I'm already something similar to the heads modified lucas. 0/6/9 - G/M/B. It would just seem odd to me to add even more micro. I'm stubborn and a creature of habbit! Lol
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Yes, but you're still using water bottles. For a hobby grower in a closet, the expense won't add up fast enough to matter but if your goal is to be a caregiver or earning money, then switching to dry nutrient salts is a basic requirement. If they didn't work, why would greenhouses use millions of pounds of it a year, growing everything from tomatoes and roses to herbs and research projects?
Hydrogardens.com
Minimum order is twenty five pounds, NOT the two hundred fifty it implies on the website.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Stock solutions + KOH container. (diluted water used for stock solutions)
This allows me to use a syringe to add stock solution by volume rather than dry salts by mass.
I don't have a stock solution for KOH because it's a lot safer keeping it dry.
This allows me to use a syringe to add stock solution by volume rather than dry salts by mass.
I don't have a stock solution for KOH because it's a lot safer keeping it dry.
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941mick
Well-Known Member
That is not true at all. If someone is making 10k a month from a small set up, paying a few hundred a month on nutrients/soil, and paying around 900 for utilities there is a lot of bread left over.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
'$10k a month' and 'small setup' are mutually exclusive parameters, lol
What if I told your guy that he could save 95% of those several hundred dollars and get the same or better results? And that dry salts are easier to transport, measure and use?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Once you know what you're doing, it's easier for hobby too. Using salts this way is more straight forward.
Not having a thousand marketing brands actually makes growing hydroponically a lot simpler.
It allows you to dial in with real variables. It gives other people something they can copy that's brand agnostic. Recipes, etc, rather than "can I mix this brand with that brand? I'm lokoing for someone who has a complete journal with Brand X product Y only."
Not having a thousand marketing brands actually makes growing hydroponically a lot simpler.
It allows you to dial in with real variables. It gives other people something they can copy that's brand agnostic. Recipes, etc, rather than "can I mix this brand with that brand? I'm lokoing for someone who has a complete journal with Brand X product Y only."
941mick
Well-Known Member
fuck even another 800 in rent and your still looking
But why when someone is still looking at 7k+ even counting rent and is happy with how everything works atm
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
@941mick I don't think anyone is bashing you for your choice to use water bottled nutrients. What we're doing is explaining the differences between them and dry nutrient salts- and why we chose them over the stuff you're using now.
It's your grow and your results. Of course it's up to you, that's the fun of doing it yourself, right?
It's your grow and your results. Of course it's up to you, that's the fun of doing it yourself, right?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Dude. Look at the thread title. Lol
941mick
Well-Known Member
The OP wrote an incomplete idea that could have been misleading to new growers not up to speed on what may be best in their situation. We have already settled this by clarifying that calcium nitrate is the best option in sterile hydroponics, but may not be the best option in non sterile hydroponics.
Do you profit $10000 a month off your bud?