chilLED: water cooled, ducted, or active led fixture
loftygoals
Well-Known Member
Caution: don't mix metals in your water loop. They will corrode over time and potentially gum up the system.
If your water blocks are copper your radiator should be copper too. Titanium is also acceptable which is why it's used in chiller heat exchangers.
If your water blocks are copper your radiator should be copper too. Titanium is also acceptable which is why it's used in chiller heat exchangers.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Use distilled or RO water, the higher the salt content the more corrosive, but the level of scale build up could be treated by running CLR or other descaler through the system. Generally speaking, mixing aluminum and copper or brass won't really present a problem in most water cooled systems.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Use 4' bars man. 8' is way too big. You'll have so much more versatility and ability to move them around where they need to be higher in some spots or whatever.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Shugglet is right, copper is not required, but if you wanted to and didn't mind dropping the bucks, go for it. Don't expect any difference in how the system runs for your extra investment however.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Check out my thread for info on water cooling
loftygoals
Well-Known Member
As someone who has run into this issue in a small water loop (alu rad, copper blocks, distilled water) I can tell you that's not always true. Within 6-8 months I saw corrosion inside my loop.
There are loads of reports on the net of the same thing happening to others. Sure you might get lucky.... or you might not. Why take the chance? Totally avoidable.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I'm basically an experimenter so I'll take the chance, if corrosion becomes an issue, I'll run some dilute acid through the tubes to clean and even etch them to improve performance. Also there are additives that can help prevent electrolytic corrosion by reducing the conductivity of the coolant. Distilled water is not very conductive and plastic hose between dissimilar metals helps too. I believe antifreeze or some other automotive cooling additive formulated for aluminum engine blocks might do too. Thanks for the info though, I haven't been running my system that long so I'll keep an eye out for corrosion.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
You can get around this issue easily by using zinc plugs. Army Corps of Engineers use them on metal structures in fresh and salt water to great effect.
Just replace them occasionally, they're called sacrificial anodes for a reason lol
fearnoevil
Well-Known Member
I would think an antifreeze mix would be best as it helps prevent corrosion.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It's just a damn mess to clean up if a connection fails.
Unless part of your cooling system is exposed to potentially subrogation temperatures, antifreeze does NO GOOD AT ALL. It's there for protection, that's it.
fearnoevil
Well-Known Member
Well without the protection afforded by the anti-corrosive properties of antifreeze, you could end up with more corrosion issues including leaks.
But this is why I wanted to do it using a single bar. From other posts I've seen on this type of cooling system, with all the tubes/fittings, there's far more likelihood of exactly that, whereas with this system there's just two fittings per fixture, 1 inlet and 1 outlet.
So I think I'll give this a try, the parts I ordered from Cobkits is for a trial build anyway, so might as well go all in and see what I can find out. I always say, in for a penny in for pound, lol. But with this trial version I'll probably down-size the pump and heat exchanger, keep it simple until I can work out the kinks, or decide to scrap the idea, vamos a ver ;?D
Hey Loftygoals, I was a plumber for many years and while the principle you're talking about (electrolysis) is a real problem, it's only if the two dissimilar metals actually come into contact with one another. That's why they make these things called dielectric unions, with are just a metal union with a plastic sleeve/gasket to prevent contact. The water itself will not cause this problem.
I do agree that distilled water is not the "solutions", lol. Seriously, distilled water is "empty" water, and as such will add to your corrosion problems. Water is actually a solvent, often called the universal solvent. and distilled water is often called "hungry" water, because it has nothing in solution and so will readily absorb anything including minerals or particles from metals until it has reached a level of equalibrium.
Some argue that they've been told that it's better to add distilled water to their car's radiator, which may sound good since it has no minerals like tap water, but the fact is you are not using STRAIGHT distilled H2o, but mixed with antifreeze, which then negates the problem. I'm probably going to try a 50/50 solution of cheap store bought antifreeze (may dilute it a bit more depending on the size of my system), which should give me the best protection against corrosion, imo.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This is interesting. All my hoses are vinyl so dissimilar metals in different components are well separated. I've yet to experience any corrosion problems.
Yet the hungry water concept rings true to me- and worse, my city has some of the cleanest tap water in the country in terms of low EC. I wonder how that might be affecting things in my system.
fearnoevil
Well-Known Member
HVAC systems and certain electrical cooling systems use ethylene glycol mixtures (from Wiki):
"The most common water-based antifreeze solutions used in electronics cooling are mixtures of water and either ethylene glycol (EGW) or propylene glycol (PGW). The use of ethylene glycol has a longer history, especially in the automotive industry. However, EGW solutions formulated for the automotive industry often have silicate based rust inhibitors that can coat and/or clog heat exchanger surfaces. Ethylene glycol is listed as a toxic chemical requiring care in handling and disposal.
Ethylene glycol has desirable thermal properties, including a high boiling point, low freezing point, stability over a wide range of temperatures, and high specific heat and thermal conductivity. It also has a low viscosity and, therefore, reduced pumping requirements. Although EGW has more desirable physical properties than PGW, the latter coolant is used in applications where toxicity might be a concern. PGW is generally recognized as safe for use in food or food processing applications, and can also be used in enclosed spaces.
Similar mixtures are commonly used in HVAC and industrial heating or cooling systems as a high-capacity heat transfer medium. Many formulations have corrosion inhibitors, and it is expected that these chemicals will be replenished (manually or under automatic control) to keep expensive piping and equipment from corroding."
"The most common water-based antifreeze solutions used in electronics cooling are mixtures of water and either ethylene glycol (EGW) or propylene glycol (PGW). The use of ethylene glycol has a longer history, especially in the automotive industry. However, EGW solutions formulated for the automotive industry often have silicate based rust inhibitors that can coat and/or clog heat exchanger surfaces. Ethylene glycol is listed as a toxic chemical requiring care in handling and disposal.
Ethylene glycol has desirable thermal properties, including a high boiling point, low freezing point, stability over a wide range of temperatures, and high specific heat and thermal conductivity. It also has a low viscosity and, therefore, reduced pumping requirements. Although EGW has more desirable physical properties than PGW, the latter coolant is used in applications where toxicity might be a concern. PGW is generally recognized as safe for use in food or food processing applications, and can also be used in enclosed spaces.
Similar mixtures are commonly used in HVAC and industrial heating or cooling systems as a high-capacity heat transfer medium. Many formulations have corrosion inhibitors, and it is expected that these chemicals will be replenished (manually or under automatic control) to keep expensive piping and equipment from corroding."
fearnoevil
Well-Known Member
How many ppms? Mine's pretty clean as well, averages around 35-40 ppm, and my water heater is 30 years old, so that may be a good thing ;?)
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Mine went at 35 years. I was actually there when it did; I heard it start, followed the hissing noise to it, shut off the water supply and saved the whole basement from flooding!
It was the cheapest of the cheap builder's grade units, too.
fearnoevil
Well-Known Member
HAH, funny you should mention that, mine is also in the basement and has developed a very small leak, not enough to even see when the dehumidifier is running, but when I turn it off, a wet spot appears but doesn't go but a couple of feet from the heater - mine is an A.O. Smith btw, a great brand but I'm afraid it's about to give up the ghost, and I'm just too busy/lazy to replace it. But I know I need to get on it, cuz last thing I want to come home to is a burst water heater and several inches of water throughout, lol.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
They're not even that expensive, and new ones are generally better insulated and thus more efficient. Plus, take the chance to upgrade to a bigger unit, adds value to your home.
And installing them is much less bother than pumping out the whole basement!
fearnoevil
Well-Known Member
I agree, I'm actually looking at installing a gas fired tankless unit, they've come down in price quite a bit. But the main reason I haven't tackled this project is that the main shut-off valve is pretty ancient, AND like a lot of older homes, this one was installed about 3 inches above the concrete, leaving no room to replace it if it turns out to be rotten.
I've done service calls in the past where a simple repair becomes a nightmare when you go to shut off the water and it starts to leak and then the handle breaks off, and you've got to get a jack-hammer and remove the concrete do you can get to the pipe, only to find that it's rotten all the way back to the other side of the foundation. So yeah, just a little scared of touching it, and the outside shut-off requires getting the city involved, pita, grrrrr.
To the OP, sorry to hijack the thread, it's funny how you can wander off topic, lol, happens all the....SQUIRREL!!!! ;?D
Yes, I do have AADD, lol.
I've done service calls in the past where a simple repair becomes a nightmare when you go to shut off the water and it starts to leak and then the handle breaks off, and you've got to get a jack-hammer and remove the concrete do you can get to the pipe, only to find that it's rotten all the way back to the other side of the foundation. So yeah, just a little scared of touching it, and the outside shut-off requires getting the city involved, pita, grrrrr.
To the OP, sorry to hijack the thread, it's funny how you can wander off topic, lol, happens all the....SQUIRREL!!!! ;?D
Yes, I do have AADD, lol.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
@fearnoevil while we're on the subject, you may be interested to know that I utilise a 5 Ton chiller with hot gas recovery, effectively a dual circuit heat pump. The cold water removes heat and moisture from grow room air and a central climate control unit which services the rest of my home, providing welcome cooling for my home in summer. The heat is adsorbed by a coil filled with r134a, which is immersed in the cold water tank under the chiller. The 1hp spa pump then drives the water through all the plumbing and back to the tank.
The refrigerant is compressed and this heat is pushed up the temperature gradient to another coil, this time resting in the hot water tank- also under the chiller and right next to the cold tank. Same closed loop hot water circuit story, the 1hp pump driving hot water throughout my home. Some feeds baseboard heaters in the grow room to heat and complete the dehuey cycle plus provide nighttime heating and RH control. Hot water also passes through the same central climate control unit, heating my home as needed.
Another circuit connects to my water heater, passing through the copper heat exchange coil of a 'solar hot water tank with natural gas backup'. My grow now heats my home and my domestic hot water.
In 20 years I think this kind of thing will be common and affordable, because it's certainly efficient. I spend less than $300 US annually on natural gas, most of which is for connection fees, and a bit of cooking on my gas range lol
The refrigerant is compressed and this heat is pushed up the temperature gradient to another coil, this time resting in the hot water tank- also under the chiller and right next to the cold tank. Same closed loop hot water circuit story, the 1hp pump driving hot water throughout my home. Some feeds baseboard heaters in the grow room to heat and complete the dehuey cycle plus provide nighttime heating and RH control. Hot water also passes through the same central climate control unit, heating my home as needed.
Another circuit connects to my water heater, passing through the copper heat exchange coil of a 'solar hot water tank with natural gas backup'. My grow now heats my home and my domestic hot water.
In 20 years I think this kind of thing will be common and affordable, because it's certainly efficient. I spend less than $300 US annually on natural gas, most of which is for connection fees, and a bit of cooking on my gas range lol