Creation Vs Evolution

Xrtnfx said:

So RW, I am just curious... What are your ideas on everything? You seem to want to dismiss evolution, what would you put in its place? Would you like to elaborate on creationism, since this thread is called "creation vs. evolution"?

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RickWhite said:

My belief is that nobody knows.

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I also believe that there is an area in which the science of the matter fades into the philosophical. For instance, the Torah gives the literal name of God - 4 letters that in Hebrew can not be pronounced. The point of this is to make sure that God can not be defined or understood in human terms. If we think of God as being infinite, he could have caused the big bang, evolution and everything we are capable of thinking or perceiving in the blink of an eye. Then again, what if all that is good in the world is God?

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Obviously, this is another conversation. All I am suggesting that we are wrong when we think we have all the answers. Evolution could easily be part of a divine plan. Or, it could be that it all just came about as an accidental series of chemical reactions. If we were able to find a specific chemical accident that caused life and the formation of DNA we could be pretty sure, but until then there is no proof at all that there isn't a divine purpose (love the double negative) for our existence and that evolution isn't merely another small piece of the puzzle.

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RickWhite said:

My belief is that nobody knows.

I also believe that there is an area in which the science of the matter fades into the philosophical. For instance, the Torah gives the literal name of God - 4 letters that in Hebrew can not be pronounced. The point of this is to make sure that God can not be defined or understood in human terms. If we think of God as being infinite, he could have caused the big bang, evolution and everything we are capable of thinking or perceiving in the blink of an eye. Then again, what if all that is good in the world is God?

Obviously, this is another conversation. All I am suggesting that we are wrong when we think we have all the answers. Evolution could easily be part of a divine plan. Or, it could be that it all just came about as an accidental series of chemical reactions. If we were able to find a specific chemical accident that caused life and the formation of DNA we could be pretty sure, but until then there is no proof at all that there isn't a divine purpose for our existence and that evolution isn't merely another small piece of the puzzle.

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Yeah I get what you are saying. A lot of things in this world are unknown for various reasons, and scientists do a lot of educated guess work in order to figure out those unknowns. I do remember hearing that certain parts of early life formation are somewhat shady, but I feel like we need to stick with what we know and go from there. I also have my beliefs in a god, where it would have granted creatures the ability to evolve, just as it would have granted the environment to change. But with that being said, whether or not a god had anything to do with evolution, it is still there and most parts are very observable and testable (example: finches), and I think it is the way to describe our existance. Other parts are just putting pieces together to try and make them fit as well as possible. Of course, who knows, maybe some alien bastards put us here as an experiment of their own and are so far advanced from us that they made the pieces fit themselves

Padawanbater2 said:

Smart people don't use double negatives because until you show me the flying spaghetti monster didn't create the universe and evolution then I'll just assume he did...

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I might not be the most convincing individual, but I think we can all take something from this but probably not haha

Xrtnfx said:

To each their own, once people stop getting so sensitive about religious beliefs I think that we can all understand each other. Let god represent all that is and has ever been in the world, lets not simplify him to a certain being (example: spaghetti monster, white guy with beard). Instead lets look at it as the supernatural powers of the universe, all the beauty of science, all the processes, all of the certain ways things work themselves out that defy human intellect. That’s my god

I might not be the most convincing individual, but I think we can all take something from this but probably not haha

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Padawanbater2 said:

Oh and that little video of Dawkins explaining the evolution of the eye is for the LAYMAN

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Padawanbater2 said:

I couldn't care less about how you interpret God.

That's not the issue.

The issue is the God that MOST PEOPLE have created and believe in today. It's dangerous, and detrimental to the rest of us. It causes problems that last centuries.

Your interpretation doesn't.

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mindphuk said:

BTW, Rick, you really need to learn more about what you are talking about before you make sweeping claims. The eye is PART of the brain. There is no need for parallel brain and eye development. There are many simple creatures that currently exist that have light sensing cells, look up eyespot apparatus.

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mindphuk said:

X, if you can tell me what scientific theories CAN be proven, then you win.
Rick is purporting to be science educated yet he continues to make basic mistakes and misrepresentations about science. He first claims that he wholeheartedly accepts evolution in 'lower' animals but singles out humans as somehow special. Now he is sounding like a full-fledged IDer, discounting even the most basic premises of evolutionary theory in all species. As a supposed scientist, he should understand how no theory is ever complete or can be proven. Proofs are for mathematics and alcohol. Science deals with levels of confidence. The mountains of evidence supporting natural selection as the mechanism for evolution has one of the highest levels of confidence of any scientific theory to date. We know, for instance, that general relativity is incomplete. It's equations break down at the subatomic level. No one has made a claim evolution is a complete and perfect theory. If it were, there would be no reason to continue to work on the problems. Rick's posts continue to imply that just because we don't have the answers HE wants, then that makes his idea of a designer/creator somehow more probable. In fact, if evolution was falsified tomorrow, Rick would still need to show evidence for his claims, yet he admits there are none and so his beliefs are no more likely because of any failure of evolution.

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I know what is going on, I've been along for the ride . I'm just trying a different approach to try and solve this argument.

mindphuk said:

X, if you can tell me what scientific theories CAN be proven, then you win.
Rick is purporting to be science educated yet he continues to make basic mistakes and misrepresentations about science. He first claims that he wholeheartedly accepts evolution in 'lower' animals but singles out humans as somehow special. Now he is sounding like a full-fledged IDer, discounting even the most basic premises of evolutionary theory in all species. As a supposed scientist, he should understand how no theory is ever complete or can be proven. Proofs are for mathematics and alcohol. Science deals with levels of confidence. The mountains of evidence supporting natural selection as the mechanism for evolution has one of the highest levels of confidence of any scientific theory to date. We know, for instance, that general relativity is incomplete. It's equations break down at the subatomic level. No one has made a claim evolution is a complete and perfect theory. If it were, there would be no reason to continue to work on the problems. Rick's posts continue to imply that just because we don't have the answers HE wants, then that makes his idea of a designer/creator somehow more probable. In fact, if evolution was falsified tomorrow, Rick would still need to show evidence for his claims, yet he admits there are none and so his beliefs are no more likely because of any failure of evolution.

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AlterdImage777 said:

The guy that discovered and mapped out DNA was on a show saying that in 600 Billion years there is NO POSSIBLE WAY we happened randomly because of how intricate and complex life is. They also mentioned that humans have a gene found that no other life form on the planet and they figure it is what makes our mind different then that of an animal. So basically they were scientifically proving evolution is unlikely and it is more likely that we were created by God, however in todays society that wants God to be a fairy tale more than anything else they decided that we must have come from another planet. They offered 2 theoreys, one was that we were an advanced civilization that realized our planet was doomed so we boarded ships and came here...but where are the ships and why did technology have to re-evolve from the stone ages? Their second theorey is that the aliens encoded their program of life into this "God gene" type thing that was sent to our planet to interact and reprogram bacteria or single-celled organisms here to evolve at a more rapid rate, preprogramed....the obvious answer is that they are finding that God has to exist....though they don't want to admit it...but from space???how low will u go...I choose Truth, I choose God!

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AlterdImage777 said:

Most scientists prove small things and when they get stumped , rather than chucking it as a bad theorey they figure some other branch of science can explain it and pass it along as truth, since none of you have personally proven anything, you accept it by faith too, I just find it easier to have faith in God before science but the two can coexist when science stays honest and agenda free...sucks when people with agendas are the ones writing your grant check....

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AlterdImage777 said:

The guy that discovered and mapped out DNA was on a show saying that in 600 Billion years there is NO POSSIBLE WAY we happened randomly because of how intricate and complex life is. They also mentioned that humans have a gene found that no other life form on the planet and they figure it is what makes our mind different then that of an animal. So basically they were scientifically proving evolution is unlikely and it is more likely that we were created by God, however in todays society that wants God to be a fairy tale more than anything else they decided that we must have come from another planet. They offered 2 theoreys, one was that we were an advanced civilization that realized our planet was doomed so we boarded ships and came here...but where are the ships and why did technology have to re-evolve from the stone ages? Their second theorey is that the aliens encoded their program of life into this "God gene" type thing that was sent to our planet to interact and reprogram bacteria or single-celled organisms here to evolve at a more rapid rate, preprogramed....the obvious answer is that they are finding that God has to exist....though they don't want to admit it...but from space???how low will u go...I choose Truth, I choose God!

Click to expand...

mindphuk said:

X, if you can tell me what scientific theories CAN be proven, then you win.
Rick is purporting to be science educated yet he continues to make basic mistakes and misrepresentations about science. He first claims that he wholeheartedly accepts evolution in 'lower' animals but singles out humans as somehow special. Now he is sounding like a full-fledged IDer, discounting even the most basic premises of evolutionary theory in all species. As a supposed scientist, he should understand how no theory is ever complete or can be proven. Proofs are for mathematics and alcohol. Science deals with levels of confidence. The mountains of evidence supporting natural selection as the mechanism for evolution has one of the highest levels of confidence of any scientific theory to date. We know, for instance, that general relativity is incomplete. It's equations break down at the subatomic level. No one has made a claim evolution is a complete and perfect theory. If it were, there would be no reason to continue to work on the problems. Rick's posts continue to imply that just because we don't have the answers HE wants, then that makes his idea of a designer/creator somehow more probable. In fact, if evolution was falsified tomorrow, Rick would still need to show evidence for his claims, yet he admits there are none and so his beliefs are no more likely because of any failure of evolution.

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RickWhite said:

You are the one making sweeping claims. I was HIGHLY SPECIFIC in my questions. They are ones that need to be answered, not ones that I want. And I might add, ones you fail to address in all of your posts. Still waiting to hear how random chemical reactions formed DNA that contains the instructions for complex organisms.


Stop posting your opinions as if they are fact. Evolution is widely accepted, but not nearly as factually supported as most scientific theories. There is no doubt as to how photosynthesis or the TCA cycle works or most things in physics or chemistry. These are proven scientific theories. And we have many theories regarding genetics that are hardly debatable. Where evolution becomes a problem is when the underlying genetic OBSERVATIONS are extrapolated and an unproven cause is assumed. The fact is, we have a bunch of observations that may or may not be related in the way we think they are. For all we know, a space virus could have deposited a plethora of seeds that were designed with adaptability sequences in their DNA. Maybe, this seed was a master code sequence for everything on the entire planet and what we are seeing is merely what has sprouted.

Either way, you are making the same argument. You after all, are arguing that life has an intrinsic ability to adapt to its environment and maybe it does. What you refuse to accept is that this intrinsic ability may not be strictly accidental. in other words, you are claiming that without a doubt, you are certain that this extraordinary ability of nature had to have been purely accidental.

Given that we both acknowledge that life has this amazing ability one way or anther, what proof do you have that it is all purely accidental?

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