Do unto others as you would have them do unto you; drones on the White House lawn

Is turnabout fair play?

  • yes! nuke 'em all and let God sort them out!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • no- only the Feds get to play with the fun toys

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • what's the question?

    Votes: 2 40.0%

  • can I order fries with that?

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • Total voters
    5
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Most likely a discharged battery is to blame, mechanical failure or possibly losing the signal due to distance. The 2.4ghz SS signals of low power R/C equipment are good for up to 6 miles at LOS, less if amongst a bunch of trees or very tall buildings, so I lean more towards power loss. There are also mechanical difficulties that could have gone wrong. Upon signal loss the aircraft normally would return to home by use of GPS, this didn't happen so I assume some other trouble. Obviously the drone impacted hard enough to break the frame, so I also assume a rapid descent, which also would only happen with a low battery or a mechanical failure.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to blame this incident on jamming.

In the hypothetical scenario where 1000 of these toys are flying into the WH, I can see them using some manner of jamming. Broad spectrum noise at high enough relative amplitude will jam damn near anything unless it is shielded by a Faraday cage, but then how is it Rx'ing? That goes for GPS, too.
I can't argue the difficulty in hijacking a random, carrier frequency switching system , but I'm quite certain they can be jammed .
If the drone is waiting for a "key" from the Tx'er, and it is being washed in broad-noise, how is it going to "hear" the key? It's a matter of SNR, ultimately.
You can shout to your buddy across an empty stadium and he'll hear you, but as soon as you get 10000 people in the building, just chit-chatting, your voice will get drowned out regardless of your pitch. That's perhaps an over-simplification, but the general point is demonstrated.

I suspect the reason the military can use it in confidence is because their "opponents"--for the most part--can barely get cell phones to work, and when they do, it's usually for IED detonators. It's not likely they're carrying directional EM weapons. Remember how they used jammers to guard the convoys in Afghanistan? Same shit, different pile...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-IED_equipment#Electronic_Countermeasures_.28Jammers.29
Good grief! They have some kooky weapons in that list.
I like that "portable lightning" one. :lol:

However, there's only one way to settle this issue satisfactorily. Let's write up a proposal, get some DARPA money, and crash shit for SCIENCE!!!11@!1
I mean, "keep America safe"!
You fly them, I'll zap them.
We'll need to come up with a good project name for it, though.
Project: Thunder Cock-Block? Project: Double-Fisted Maser Constipator ?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
The more you explain how it works, the more I wonder if such a system was indeed operating at the time- and maybe even caused the drone crash by interdicting the operator's control signal.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
I wasn't trying to blame this incident on jamming.

In the hypothetical scenario where 1000 of these toys are flying into the WH, I can see them using some manner of jamming. Broad spectrum noise at high enough relative amplitude will jam damn near anything unless it is shielded by a Faraday cage, but then how is it Rx'ing? That goes for GPS, too.
I can't argue the difficulty in hijacking a random, carrier frequency switching system , but I'm quite certain they can be jammed .
If the drone is waiting for a "key" from the Tx'er, and it is being washed in broad-noise, how is it going to "hear" the key? It's a matter of SNR, ultimately.
You can shout to your buddy across an empty stadium and he'll hear you, but as soon as you get 10000 people in the building, just chit-chatting, your voice will get drowned out regardless of your pitch. That's perhaps an over-simplification, but the general point is demonstrated.

I suspect the reason the military can use it in confidence is because their "opponents"--for the most part--can barely get cell phones to work, and when they do, it's usually for IED detonators. It's not likely they're carrying directional EM weapons. Remember how they used jammers to guard the convoys in Afghanistan? Same shit, different pile...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-IED_equipment#Electronic_Countermeasures_.28Jammers.29
Good grief! They have some kooky weapons in that list.
I like that "portable lightning" one. :lol:

However, there's only one way to settle this issue satisfactorily. Let's write up a proposal, get some DARPA money, and crash shit for SCIENCE!!!11@!1
I mean, "keep America safe"!
You fly them, I'll zap them.
We'll need to come up with a good project name for it, though.
Project: Thunder Cock-Block? Project: Double-Fisted Maser Constipator ?
Click to expand...
I think developing handheld jammers would be better. each soldier could carry one and jam all those Cell initiated IED's right?



This one should work,
Bill of Materials:
B1 3-24 VDC
C1 22uf
C2 22uf
IC1 Propeller P8X32A-D40 $13
J1 4 pin header
R1 10k
U1 24LC256 $5
U2 LM2937-3.3 (3.3v version) $2
W1 RCA Jack (optional)
X1 5 mhz Crystal

Misc:
antenna, an ~8"/20.32cm odd length of wire will do
prototype board
propeller plug for programming $30 or build your own.

We will build the pocket jammers for $100 each and sell them to the military for $15,000 each.
 
heckler73

heckler73

Well-Known Member
0-128Mhz? If those systems are in the microwave range, it may need an upgrade.
But that parallax chip is interesting...thanks for the tip ;)

http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/faq.html
While cell phone jammers are useful against some IEDs, many current designs are trigged by signal-loss. I have no more pointers, but perhaps someone in your organization with more experience can inform you of the best defences one can take against such devices.

Damn, they're getting clever, eh? It seems the Halal Snackbar people have figured out how to count in binary. I guess that's why the military are more interested in identification and controlled detonation.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
0-128Mhz? If those systems are in the microwave range, it may need an upgrade.
But that parallax chip is interesting...thanks for the tip ;)

http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/faq.html
While cell phone jammers are useful against some IEDs, many current designs are trigged by signal-loss. I have no more pointers, but perhaps someone in your organization with more experience can inform you of the best defences one can take against such devices.
Damn, they're getting clever, eh? It seems the Halal Snackbar people have figured out how to count in binary. I guess that's why the military are more interested in identification and controlled detonation.
Click to expand...
Outside the box thinking can make the best tech irrelevant.
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
The more you explain how it works, the more I wonder if such a system was indeed operating at the time- and maybe even caused the drone crash by interdicting the operator's control signal.
Click to expand...
the dude was drunk and fucking around..crashed it to a wall/fence to the point where it couldn't fly home..he bent the frame rendering it "unflyable".
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
0-128Mhz? If those systems are in the microwave range, it may need an upgrade.
But that parallax chip is interesting...thanks for the tip ;)

http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/faq.html
While cell phone jammers are useful against some IEDs, many current designs are trigged by signal-loss. I have no more pointers, but perhaps someone in your organization with more experience can inform you of the best defences one can take against such devices.
Damn, they're getting clever, eh? It seems the Halal Snackbar people have figured out how to count in binary. I guess that's why the military are more interested in identification and controlled detonation.
Click to expand...
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
That's badass. I'm gonna go find someone who can reach me. I've taken martial arts before but it was always too much talk and not enough learning how to stomp shit.
Click to expand...
Funny we often practiced blindfolded and there are taps and pushes for training, no talking. :)
The main guy used to walk up to me every 2 weeks or so and present a technique. If I didn't know instantly the counter, he would just shake his head.

And this guy felt like flimsy bamboo. He would not commit an ounce of pressure, before he simply morphed to the next technique. But, if you don't watch it, you get a little palm strike to the chin or something. :)

Wing Chun. The science of in fighting.
 
Last edited:
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
heckler73 said:
0-128Mhz? If those systems are in the microwave range, it may need an upgrade.
But that parallax chip is interesting...thanks for the tip ;)

http://www.ladyada.net/make/wavebubble/faq.html
While cell phone jammers are useful against some IEDs, many current designs are trigged by signal-loss. I have no more pointers, but perhaps someone in your organization with more experience can inform you of the best defences one can take against such devices.
Damn, they're getting clever, eh? It seems the Halal Snackbar people have figured out how to count in binary. I guess that's why the military are more interested in identification and controlled detonation.
Click to expand...
Or you can have a bug bomb flying up to your eye for a retinal print.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
schuylaar said:
the dude was drunk and fucking around..crashed it to a wall/fence to the point where it couldn't fly home..he bent the frame rendering it "unflyable".
Click to expand...
I didn't hear those deets, that makes more sense- and shows how flawed their defenses are.
 
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