EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

[Rob Roy]

Reality calls again, @Rob Roy, I checked Bernie's record and as usual, you are wrong about Bernie as a war hawk in Congress. I'm sure you can find a few times where he sided with the Hawks, such as authorizing military spending in Kosovo and Somalia. But that's it isn't it? He voted to authorize funds to attack your Libertarian Never-Never Land, Somalia.

We agree on one thing, judge a politician not by what they say, rather judge them by their actions. Bernie is no war hawk.

Summary of his record on military spending: http://mosquitocloud.net/like-it-or-not-bernie-sanders-congressional-voting-record

Like It or Not: Bernie Sanders’ Congressional Voting Record.

08/29/2015 by mc.murphy 0 Comments

Depending on our individual political proclivities we reserve to ourselves the right to have strong opinions regarding the respective presidential candidates’ merits or demerits. This, of course, is as it ought to be.

Out of self respect and respect for our adversaries, however, and no matter how strongly we may feel about any candidate, we should categorically eschew buttressing our opinions with propaganda as opposed to facts.

It is a sorry testament to our political culture – and I’m speaking from the left – that our own trusted sources are not above using trumped up charges in order to discredit, and to score points, against candidates who don’t meet with our approval. We should denounce such underhanded practices and the authors who make use of them, forcefully, because distortions of truths – which we then trustingly and faithfully repeat – art part and parcel of the political sleaze in which we then become inadvertently inured.

I, for one, irrespective of my differences with Bernie, resent that.

So here is Bernie’s salient voting record, like it or not, hat tip direction of danny j who compiled it.



Bernie Sanders voted AGAINST:

* USA PATRIOT Act

Oct. 24, 2001, HR 3162

(and every expansion and reauthorization afterwards)

Nov. 20, 2003, HR 2417

July 21, 2005: HR 3199

Dec. 14, 2005: HR 3199

March 7, 2006: S 2271

May 23, 2011: S 1038

May 26, 2011: S 990

Relatedly, voted against:

* Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004

* Creation of Department of Homeland Security

July 26, 2002, HR 5005

* Invasion of Iraq (and all later bills to fund it “off the records”)

Oct. 10, 2002, H J Res 114

Iraq War Funding:

You may remember that Bush II kept Iraq War funding out of the regular “defense” budget, and so it was funded with “emergency funding” bills. Sanders voted AGAINST every single bill to fund the Iraq War, with one possible exception. In 2006, Iraq War funding may have been bundled with Hurricane Katrina relief and other necessary emergency funding which he did vote for.

* Global War on Terror

June 16, 2006, H Res 861

* No Child Left Behind

Dec. 13, 2001, HR 1

* All “Free Trade Acts”

* NAFTA, Nov. 17, 1993, HR 345

* GATT (Free Trade Act that created the WTO and World Bank).

June 22, 1993, HR 1876

*He later sponsored his first bill to withdraw from the WTO.

*July 27, 2002, HR 3009

* July 24, 2003, HR 2738, U.S.-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act

* July 24, 2003, HR 2739, U.S.-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act

* March 2, 2005, H J Res 27,

* July 20, 2006, HR 5684, U.S.-Oman Free Trade Agreement Implementation

Additionally, Dec. 6, 2001, voted against

* HR 3005, Fast Track Trade Authority bill

* Deepwater Oil Drilling

June 29, 2006, HR 4761

* 1994 Bill Clinton’s “Tough On Crime” package

* Omnibus Crime Bill

Aug. 21, 1994, HR 3355

* Anti-Crime bill,

Feb. 14, 1995, HR 728

* 1996, Bill Clinton’s Anti-Terrorsm and Effective Death Penalty Act

https://www.govtrack.us/congre…

* Juvenile Crime bill,

May 8, 1997, HR 3

* Telecommunications Bill,

Feb. 1, 1996, S 652

* Both versions of Clinton’s Comprehensive Terrorism Prevention Act (Precursor to USA PATRIOT Act)

April 18, 1996, S 735

Antiterrorism bill,

March 14, 1996, HR 2703

* Bill Clinton’s Defense of Marriage Act

July 12, 1996, HR 3396

* Bill Clinton’s Welfare Reform Act

July 18, 1996, HR 3734

* Bill Clinton’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”

Sept. 29, 1993, H Amdt 318

Oh my. it looks like you've intentionally omitted a few of his votes where he voted to continue to fund the Empire and Empire related death and destruction abroad.

Did you know he voted to bomb Kosovo and for a time people in Vermont referred to him as "Bernie the Bomber" ?


National Defense Authorization Act (200 YES

Inclusion of Iraq and Afghanistan Military Operations Funding with the Consolidated Appropriations – Key Vote : YES

Iraq and Afghanistan War Funding- Key Vote YES

2009-2010 Defense Appropriations – Key Vote YES

Fiscal Year 2009-2010 Supplemental Appropriations – Key Vote YES

2010-2011 Defense Authorizations – Key Vote YES

Defense Department FY2005 Appropriations Bill YES

Military Construction Appropriations Act, 2004 YES

Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act, 2013 – Key Vote YES

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014 – Key Vote YES

PATRIOT Act Reauthorization YES

Defense Department FY2007 Appropriations Bill YES

Defense Department FY2006 Authorization Bill YES

Defense Department FY2006 Appropriations Bill YES

Department of Defense Appropriations, Fiscal Year 2003 YES

Foreign Operations FY 2006 Appropriations Bill YES

Authorization for Use of Military Force (September 14, 2001) YES

 

[Michael Huntherz]

I'm sorry to inform you, but I very rarely watch television.

Also, are you saying that if a person improves their home the property taxes will go up or down ?

I don't even know what you're asking me. I made a faulty assumption about the television. What I was trying to say is that there is no evidence that raising taxes hurts the economy. There is also no evidence that lowering taxes or low taxes in general stimulate business activity. It is a myth perpetrated by the people who own and run and benefit from the banking system. It is unfortunate that so many such as yourself have fallen for it.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Oh my. it looks like you've intentionally omitted a few of his votes where he voted to continue to fund the Empire and Empire related death and destruction abroad.

Did you know he voted to bomb Kosovo and for a time people in Vermont referred to him as "Bernie the Bomber" ?


National Defense Authorization Act (200 YES

Inclusion of Iraq and Afghanistan Military Operations Funding with the Consolidated Appropriations – Key Vote : YES

Iraq and Afghanistan War Funding- Key Vote YES

2009-2010 Defense Appropriations – Key Vote YES

Fiscal Year 2009-2010 Supplemental Appropriations – Key Vote YES

2010-2011 Defense Authorizations – Key Vote YES

Defense Department FY2005 Appropriations Bill YES

Military Construction Appropriations Act, 2004 YES

Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act, 2013 – Key Vote YES

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014 – Key Vote YES

PATRIOT Act Reauthorization YES

Defense Department FY2007 Appropriations Bill YES

Defense Department FY2006 Authorization Bill YES

Defense Department FY2006 Appropriations Bill YES

Department of Defense Appropriations, Fiscal Year 2003 YES

Foreign Operations FY 2006 Appropriations Bill YES

Authorization for Use of Military Force (September 14, 2001) YES

I don't know if any of what either of you people post it is true but if you're not for Bernie Sanders then you really have no idea how the game works in the United States, or you do and you would like it to stay the same. Bernie Sanders is literally our only presidential hope of changing anything for the better this election cycle.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Do something brave for once in your stinking lives and vote for Bernie in 2016. I'm saying that to you I'm saying that to myself and I'm saying it to everyone with love in my heart.

 

[Rob Roy]

I'm glad to have enlightened you regarding Ronald Rayguns profligate habits. Libertarians like you have difficulty with reality and I am glad to remind you of it whenever you start ranting your fantasies.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

I'm ranting using speech to text while I'm driving because I feel passionate about this stuff. However I can't look up any facts to support my claims while I'm sitting at the stoplight I don't have time. Thanks for enduring me yelling at you. I'm out.

 

[Rob Roy]

I don't even know what you're asking me. I made a faulty assumption about the television. What I was trying to say is that there is no evidence that raising taxes hurts the economy. There is also no evidence that lowering taxes or low taxes in general stimulate business activity. It is a myth perpetrated by the people who own and run and benefit from the banking system. It is unfortunate that so many such as yourself have fallen for it.

So you're claiming that the likelihood of a persons property tax being raised never serves as a disincentive to make improvements to their property?

Also, "the economy" is not a distinct entity on its own. It's the aggregate of the economic activity (choices) individual people make.

Counting government activity as economic activity when it really creates future debt and skews what people would do is counter intuitive.

Yes, you probably don't know what I'm asking.

 

[Rob Roy]

I'm ranting using speech to text while I'm driving because I feel passionate about this stuff. However I can't look up any facts to support my claims while I'm sitting at the stoplight I don't have time. Thanks for enduring me yelling at you. I'm out.

Okay, please drive safely and smoke a fattie when you get home.

 

[UncleBuck]

So you're claiming that the likelihood of a persons property tax being raised never serves as a disincentive to make improvements to their property?

why do people in the nicest houses have the highest property taxes?

also, why do you refuse to simply state that pedophilia should be illegal?

 

[Michael Huntherz]

So you're claiming that the likelihood of a persons property tax being raised never serves as a disincentive to make improvements to their property?

No. I'm not saying that. In the case of property taxes in the US you are probably correct. I'm saying there are countries with comparatively high rates of tax overall have higher standards of living than the USA. I'm also saying there's no correlation between a low tax rate (overall) and increased economic activity. There is data to support the idea that a low tax rate does not incentivize business activity. Yet that's the chant of the right-wing in our country; regulation is bad, taxes are bad, yada yada.
I clearly underestimated you as an individual intellect, but I stand by my initial statement.
(Norway, Iceland, Sweden are all pretty dang nice, and are Socialist Democracies)

Anyhow, about to spark that fatty now.

(It isn't that national government is universally bad, it is that our government is bad about a number of things (along with many other countries, of course))

 

[Rob Roy]

No. I'm not saying that. In the case of property taxes in the US you are probably correct. I'm saying there are countries with comparatively high rates of tax overall have higher standards of living than the USA. I'm also saying there's no correlation between a low tax rate (overall) and increased economic activity. There is data to support the idea that a low tax rate does not incentivize business activity. Yet that's the chant of the right-wing in our country; regulation is bad, taxes are bad, yada yada.
I clearly underestimated you as an individual intellect, but I stand by my initial statement.
(Norway, Iceland, Sweden are all pretty dang nice, and are Socialist Democracies)

Anyhow, about to spark that fatty now.

(It isn't that national government is universally bad, it is that our government is bad about a number of things (along with many other countries, of course))

When government acts in ways that would be wrong for you or I to, isn't that STILL wrong ? I'd say it is.

For instance, If I have no right to impose my will on you, (I don't) then I can't delegate that nonexistent "right" to a group of people to impose for me, can I ? You can't delegate authority you don't have.



Yes, sometimes people underestimate me, it's because of all the fur, I've gotten used to it over the years.

 

[Rob Roy]

why do people in the nicest houses have the highest property taxes?

also, why do you refuse to simply state that pedophilia should be illegal?

I think you just validated part of my argument. Thanks. If people improve their houses (make them nicer) their property taxes will likely go up.

The answer to your ad nauseous question is I enjoy fucking with you, but not in a sexual way. If I DID swing that way, your wang would be too small and I'd probably burst out laughing, plus I'm not into copraphelia and believe your incontinence could be problematic.

 

[Padawanbater2]

When government acts in ways that would be wrong for you or I to, isn't that STILL wrong ? I'd say it is.

For instance, If I have no right to impose my will on you, (I don't) then I can't delegate that nonexistent "right" to a group of people to impose for me, can I ? You can't delegate authority you don't have.



Yes, sometimes people underestimate me, it's because of all the fur, I've gotten used to it over the years.

"Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform through"

Where is your constitution that grants you the authority to collect taxes?

Are you familiar with the revolutionary war?

 

[Michael Huntherz]

When government acts in ways that would be wrong for you or I to, isn't that STILL wrong ? I'd say it is.

For instance, If I have no right to impose my will on you, (I don't) then I can't delegate that nonexistent "right" to a group of people to impose for me, can I ? You can't delegate authority you don't have.



Yes, sometimes people underestimate me, it's because of all the fur, I've gotten used to it over the years.

Of course when the government misbehaves it is wrong, where did I say otherwise? I think you need to take a debate class or some logic and epistemology classes? I can tell you're bright, but you're not presenting your assertions cogently. No hate or anything but you're all over the place with your points of argumentation. You're mostly standing up straw men that nobody is arguing against, then knocking them down, grok? I agree with everything you posted in the quote above, but all those assertions have fuck-all to do with anything else discussed so far. You aren't illustrating the dots you're connecting in a way anyone else could understand, hence the @UncleBuck post. I think maybe you're just too mad at the gubmint to think clearly about it. Breathe deep.

 

[Rob Roy]

"Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform through"

Where is your constitution that grants you the authority to collect taxes?

Are you familiar with the revolutionary war?

I'm in no need of a history lesson.


Google Lysander Spooner..., there are videos for the short attention span people who can't be bothered to read his essays..

You can't refute his points he makes regarding the Constitution of No Authority.

There's a six minute video out there....enjoy and please stop trying to justify theft of other peoples property.

 

[Rob Roy]

Of course when the government misbehaves it is wrong, where did I say otherwise? I think you need to take a debate class or some logic and epistemology classes? I can tell you're bright, but you're not presenting your assertions cogently. No hate or anything but you're all over the place with your points of argumentation. You're just standing up straw men that nobody is arguing against, then knocking them down, grok? I agree with everything you posted in the quote above, but all those assertions have fuck-all to do with anything else discussed so far. You aren't illustrating the dots you're connecting in a way anyone else could understand, hence @Uncle Buck's post. I think maybe you're just too mad at the gubmint to think clearly about it. Breathe deep.

So, if you or I have no right to make others do things they'd prefer not to, it becomes okay for the government to do this how ?

How can people delegate authority they don't have?



Pay no attention to the Uncle Buck back and forth, he's suffered brain damage from cat shit inhalation. It's okay though, he mostly tries to talk about kiddie diddling and other topics he has alot of interest in. I think he's institutionalized, so I try to cut him a break.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

I'm in no need of a history lesson.


Google Lysander Spooner..., there are videos for the short attention span people who can't be bothered to read his essays..

You can't refute his points he makes regarding the Constitution of No Authority.

There's a six minute video out there....enjoy and please stop trying to justify theft of other peoples property.

Man if you do not like the way we are governed to the point that you can't make a compromise of some kind to continue our mutually ensured prosperity, then I suggest you move, man. I'm willing to make some trade-offs because I understand we already have socialist programs that have benefitted all of our way of life (National Parks and Highways for instance) and the government does good things as well as bad, especially when they have the welfare of the governed truly in mind. It can work. I really don't understand the rage over the idea someone might get a few nickels that "belong to me."

Cannabis laws are among the worst things government has done, of course. Bernie wants to change that, motherfuckers. Bring it.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I'm in no need of a history lesson.


Google Lysander Spooner..., there are videos for the short attention span people who can't be bothered to read his essays..

You can't refute his points he makes regarding the Constitution of No Authority.

There's a six minute video out there....enjoy and please stop trying to justify theft of other peoples property.

Taxes are not theft, taxes are payment for the services the government provides, without which you and millions of others wouldn't be able to live in the relative comfort that you do.

You would have a point if you didn't get a goddamn thing back from the government and paid a fee simply for being a citizen. But you don't because you get to drive on government roads, you get to enjoy a publicly funded education, you get police and fire service when you need it, etc.

 

[Padawanbater2]

So, if you or I have no right to make others do things they'd prefer not to, it becomes okay for the government to do this how ?

How can people delegate authority they don't have?

Apparently you do need a history lesson

I'd love to know, how do you believe authority is derived in the first place?

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Rich people don't create jobs.