First grow - Easy Ryders under CFLs in soil

I agree with you guys completely about LED being the future. I did a lot with LEDs in college and I know first hand they give off very little heat. Although I didn't do anything on the scale of a 250w LED grow light, of course. Even with HID lighting like hps and mh, something like 80% of the watts are thrown off as heat. Do you have the link to their ebay store for the 250w? I was thinking about it and if I'd do it I'd wanna go with the 250w. They say it is equal to a 600w hps, which is a pretty bold claim. I'm going to be moving soon and was thinking about waiting and going with a 600w hps anyway, so if that's true, that 250w led would be perfect for me. I can use it now in my small cabinet then when I move I can use it there too. Naturally I'm a little skeptical, it's a pretty big investment. It's true you can get something like 50,000 hours off an LED bulb, but I'm more worried about the actually electronic components going bad long before then. On their website, they say they are made by Cree or use Cree components, which is an excellent company.

I'm not sure, I sent them an email, but I think in veg mode only half of the LEDs are lit. Then when you switch to flower mode they all light up, because in the technical specs its says power consumption is reduced by 50% depending on the setting. I'm guess that is veg mode.

My only worry is that, like CFLs, you need to keep the plants really close, which will decrease the "footprint." When I move, I'm looking into doing SOG style growing, so the footprint is pretty important to me. I'm still on the fence about it I guess. I'm still searching for complete grows using similar setups. I'm just curious what they base their claims on that the 250w is equal to a 600w hps. A 600w hps throws off something like 75,000 lumens on average I believe, which is much more than the 12,500 lumens they are claiming with the 250w LED. I understand that lumens aren't everything and that they say the lumens emitted by their LED are of a better spectrum and more absorbable. Just wish they had some more data to show the spectrum. Like on a graph or something. It's very interesting though. I'm going to do some more research and thinking and let you guys know. I'll definitely be following your grows to see how it turns out.

They actually sell their 250W light at 2 different eBay stores, one under the same name as their website, and one called LuxuryGroup. LuxuryGroup has one auction currently under way that will end tomorrow, but Hydroponics Hut hasn't listed a new LED yet since I won their auction last night. Here's the link to the current auction at LuxuryGroup, and here's a link to HydroponicsHut's eBay page, where you can watch for the next LED to be listed.

As far as longevity of the lights or electronics goes they have a full 3 year warranty, which as far as I'm concerned is good enough for me. Whatever the # of hours is that they claim, if it lasts 3 years without breaking down I won't feel like it was a bad deal at all. I doubt it will break down after 3 years and 1 day, so it's likely going to last at least 3.5 to 4 years, and if it does break down in less than 3 years they'll repair or replace it (and will cross ship a replacement immediately with a credit card guarantee if you're in the middle of a grow and can't wait a week or more to get a replacement or repair).

I checked with Aspyre before I bought mine to find out exactly how his worked in terms of modes and LEDs and such. Veg mode only uses a fraction of the total LEDs, most are used for flowering. Not sure what the ratio is but it's probably at least 3 or 4 to 1, which is typical of other LEDs I've seen that aren't switchable. As a result, veg mode would be extremely energy efficient. You can switch to either mode, or you can also run both modes simultaneously, you're not limited to just one mode or the other.

As far as footprint goes, although you'd think you'd need the LEDs very close to the plants like CFLs, they actually operate best at something like 12-20" from the plants. I know that's the distance with the Supernova LED, this one might prefer 6-12" if memory serves me correctly. The light has a 90 degree effective angle, so at 12" above the plants (which would be around 22-24" above the floor from day 1 of the grow), when you consider the dimensions of the unit you'll be just fine covering a 3' by 3' room or anything smaller. Obviously after 3-4 weeks you'd probably be closer to 3' above the floor, which would easily allow the light cover a 4' by 4' space. Most people will veg in different space anyway, so the tops of their plants will already be around 20-30" off the floor when they put them in the tent. I'm sure they thought about all of that when they designed it and spaced out the LEDs, and determined how many to use.

With respect to Lumens, with HPS and MH so many of the lumens are completely wasted because it doesn't hit the optimum absorption peaks of the plants. This is one reason why quality LED grow lights are so much more efficient, because they're specifically designed to target those absorption peaks, so nearly 100% of the Lumens are absorbed by the plant instead of being wasted as visible light. Thus a 12,500 lumen light can produce the same results as a 600W HPS that generated 75,000 lumens (I'm taking that # from you). Obviously the efficiency difference is incredibly dramatic, not to mention the heat generated by HPS lights which then requires additional energy to be wasted in cooling.

I definitely encourage you to do your own research though and make sure you're 100% comfortable with whatever you decide on. I'll just reiterate though that you have absolutely nothing to lose (except time, effort, and one or more seeds) by trying out one of the Pro-Grow LEDs since you have the 90-day satisfaction guarantee. Whatever the results, I'm sure it won't be a waste, even if the yield of a test grow didn't meet with their claims.

BTW, I don't claim to be any sort of expert on LEDs, I'm just an end user that's done a fair amount of research on them. I know some of the things to look for and some of the things to avoid, but really it comes down to hands on testing and user reviews. This is why the satisfaction guarantee is so important, and imo it's what separates the men from the boys in terms of LED grow lights and sellers.

sonar said:

I'm
I'm not sure, I sent them an email, but I think in veg mode only half of the LEDs are lit. Then when you switch to flower mode they all light up, because in the technical specs its says power consumption is reduced by 50% depending on the setting. I'm guess that is veg mode.

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Hello sonar. Like E said, it uses less than half the lights for Veg. If you see the attached photo, you notice the lights with the slight yellow tint, those are the only ones that light up in Veg mode. However, when you click these on in conjunction with the Bloom lights, the amount of visible light is quite astonishing.

Aspyre said:

Hello sonar. Like E said, it uses less than half the lights for Veg. If you see the attached photo, you notice the lights with the slight yellow tint, those are the only ones that light up in Veg mode. However, when you click these on in conjunction with the Bloom lights, the amount of visible light is quite astonishing.

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Oops... here's the photo

Aspyre said:

Hello sonar. Like E said, it uses less than half the lights for Veg. If you see the attached photo, you notice the lights with the slight yellow tint, those are the only ones that light up in Veg mode. However, when you click these on in conjunction with the Bloom lights, the amount of visible light is quite astonishing.

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You can also look on their website and they have 3 pictures for the 250W light. Each picture was taken in a different mode, so you can easily see what the light looks like in each mode and roughly how many LEDs each mode uses. I actually counted the LEDs for each mode from those pics, and it uses 84 3watt LEDs for flowering, and 35 1watt LEDs for veg.

Damn it's pretty tempting. Even if it only stacked up to a 250w hps I think I would be satisfied not having to deal with all the heat. Just wish there was more info out there.

sonar said:

Damn it's pretty tempting. Even if it only stacked up to a 250w hps I think I would be satisfied not having to deal with all the heat. Just wish there was more info out there.

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Yeah, even if it did half of what it claimed, a 300W HPS would be totally sufficient for growing 2-3 photoperiod plants, or 3-4 autos, so even if this thing only did half of what it claimed I'd be satisfied. The company has done extensive internal testing against various wattage HPS's though, and the guy there that I exchanged a couple emails with came across as being almost indignant about any suggestion that lights might not fully meet with their claims. He strongly encouraged me to put it head to head against any remotely comparable LED out there or a 600W HPS, and return it if I wasn't satisfied. What company would do that on their dime if they didn't completely believe in their product?

As far as details, they provide the peaks that it targets and that's the most important detail aside from the type, size, wattage, and quality of the LEDs they use. Cree LEDs are widely known for being top of the line in the industry, and personally I really don't need to know every details about the internal electronics. As far as I'm concerned I could care less how it's built as long as it meets all of the claims, comes with a 3 year full warranty, and a 90 day satisfaction guarantee which gives me enough time to test it out on a full grow start to finish. It's just a no brainer, especially considering the price.

I think the only other product out there I'd even think about near that price range would be the 90W Illuminator UFO for $299. It comes with the same 90 day guarantee and their site provides a plethora of information about the light. I'm quite sure it's one of the best lines of LED grow lights out there around, but their pricing is 2-3 times as high as the Pro-Grow line of LEDs. Let's see, a top notch 90W UFO for $299, or a top notch 250W selectable mode UFO for $335.... decisions, decisions lol.

enonumus said:

I think the only other product out there I'd even think about near that price range would be the 90W Illuminator UFO for $299. It comes with the same 90 day guarantee and their site provides a plethora of information about the light. I'm quite sure it's one of the best lines of LED grow lights out there around, but their pricing is 2-3 times as high as the Pro-Grow line of LEDs. Let's see, a top notch 90W UFO for $299, or a top notch 250W selectable mode UFO for $335.... decisions, decisions lol.

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Yeah I was kind of wondering about that. I noticed some of those 90w UFOs run around the same price and I saw that thread with the guy who paid like $1,200 for a similar unit. Well, I got the extra money at the moment so let's give it a try. If it sucks, I'm coming after ya enonumus! Haha, j/k.

I still have a brand new 250w hps that I can't use because of heat so maybe I'll put that up on ebay to help offset the cost some. Thanks for the info guys.

sonar said:

Yeah I was kind of wondering about that. I noticed some of those 90w UFOs run around the same price and I saw that thread with the guy who paid like $1,200 for a similar unit. Well, I got the extra money at the moment so let's give it a try. If it sucks, I'm coming after ya enonumus! Haha, j/k.

I still have a brand new 250w hps that I can't use because of heat so maybe I'll put that up on ebay to help offset the cost some. Thanks for the info guys.

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Prices are totally all over the board for the UFO LED grow lights. Visually they all look almost identical, and even the core specs like which peaks they target are mostly the same nowadays with the current gen products. It's almost impossible for the average person to separate the good ones from the bad ones, and the companies all claim that their products are the highest quality. It almost seems like the best indicator we have is price, but I've come to believe that more expensive doesn't necessarily mean a better product with these LEDs. I would however avoid any of the cheapo UFOs like the $99 versions they sell on eBay, especially since there's no means of getting any user reviews, only eBay feedback which is completely worthless. Feedback from other owners, as well as the satisfaction guarantee and length of warranty were the things that sealed the deal for me, in addition to price of course.

Those Supernova LEDs that I'd imagine you're referring to are probably killer lights, but IMO they're just way overpriced when you can pick up a decent 600W HPS and ballast for under $200. $1000 more for a light that probably produces similar results just doesn't seem like a good investment to me. It takes too long to make that back in electricity savings, even including the extra money you spend on cooling equipment, and the LED probably isn't going to last much beyond 3 years anyway. I also didn't see a satisfaction guarantee with the Supernova, so it would be a shot in the dark if we hadn't seen somebody use one successfully on a nice grow.

Bummer about already buying the 250w HPS, I nearly bought one myself at one point when I'd just about given up hope on LED technology. Oh and hey, if the LEDs don't work, we're both going after Aspyre lol! Good luck winning one of those auctions at a decent price. Unless you need one immediately or don't care about spending an extra $50 or so, I'd hold out for a price of $350 or less, you should be able to win one of those at that price within a week.

Well I bid on one this morning and just met the reserve bid of $349. Just checked and won the auction so with shipping comes to $367. Thanks for the tip. Man, I have to admit though I'm a little nervous. It's not a ridiculous amount of money, but it's enough. I was just on another thread and a guy has his room set up already and said he'll be buying one on Monday. So it looks like a few of us will be experimenting very shortly.

sonar said:

Well I bid on one this morning and just met the reserve bid of $349. Just checked and won the auction so with shipping comes to $367. Thanks for the tip. Man, I have to admit though I'm a little nervous. It's not a ridiculous amount of money, but it's enough. I was just on another thread and a guy has his room set up already and said he'll be buying one on Monday. So it looks like a few of us will be experimenting very shortly.

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I say we get a Pro-grow250 support thread going!

or how about we just see the final results!!!

Aspyre said:

I say we get a Pro-grow250 support thread going!

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Let's just hijack this one, haha. Enonumus won't mind, haha, jk.

sonar said:

Well I bid on one this morning and just met the reserve bid of $349. Just checked and won the auction so with shipping comes to $367. Thanks for the tip. Man, I have to admit though I'm a little nervous. It's not a ridiculous amount of money, but it's enough. I was just on another thread and a guy has his room set up already and said he'll be buying one on Monday. So it looks like a few of us will be experimenting very shortly.

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Congrats! I saw that someone had won the auction for $349 but I didn't know that was you. Saved yourself $42 off the retail price, nothing wrong with that

I'm a little nervous too, but only about the results, not about wasting the money. The company obviously isn't fly by night, in addition to their company website, they also have a longstanding track record on eBay with 100% feedback and a substantial number of orders, so you know there isn't going to be a problem returning the light for a full refund within 90 days. By that point you'll definitely know whether it's worth the money or not. I'm going to start my next grow within 3 weeks, so I may not finish the grow before the 90 days is up but I'll definitely be far enough along to know if I want to keep it.

Look forward to comparing all of our grows, maybe we should start a "Pro-Grow 250W LED grow" thread for those of us that have recently purchased one to discuss and compare our respective grows.

Aspyre said:

I say we get a Pro-grow250 support thread going!

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Lol, I actually typed that message last night that I just posted, suggesting something similar. I'm all for creating a dedicated thread for those of us using this light to compare and discuss our respective grows. My grow journal is starting to get a little out of control .

sonar said:

Let's just hijack this one, haha. Enonumus won't mind, haha, jk.

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I think it's already happened


Seeing as how this is my grow journal and all, here's a quick update on my grow:

Tiffany had tons of amber, at least 50% I'd say, so she got a 2nd and final flush with straight PH'd water early Thursday morning and she's been in darkness ever since. Going to harvest her tomorrow (Sunday). Would've preferred to do it yesterday or today but I have company over.

Sarah, despite being 5 days older than Tiffany and also having plenty of amber, still has lots of new buds growing, so she's been flushed twice too but I've still got her under light. I'll check out her Trichs again tomorrow and if she's got substantially more than 50%-60% amber (it's so hard to quantify), I'll flush her a final time and put her in darkness for a couple days before chopping her. Kind of a catch 22 because it seems that if she's still producing a substantial amount of new buds and white hairs, even though 80-90% of her hairs are amber, I should let her grow. But, if her Trichs are much more than 50% amber, seems she should be chopped. What to do...

Scarlett will be the next to go, but she's still anywhere from 10 days to 2 weeks away, despite being at day 67 already. Stella and Jennifer (days 66 and 67 respectively), are somewhere from 2-3 weeks away best guess.

Amber, my little stunted Onyx, is at day 62 and is probably within a week or so of harvest. That is if you can call pulling a quarter Oz off of a stunted plant a "harvest" lol. the bud that's on her looks really great though, it's a very nice shade of green and orange, and a really nice texture, totally different than my Easy Ryders.

On side note... The larger phenotype Easy Ryders REALLY take a long time to mature! Another guy that's had a grow going about 2-3 weeks ahead of mine has been complaining of the same thing. Can't remember who it was but last I saw he said his girls were around day 75 or so and still had a ways to go. That's crazy for a strain that's supposed to go 7 weeks from seed to harvest according to Attitude's site. I think they screwed up and meant it was supposed to flower for 7 weeks. That would be right in line with the smaller phenotype Easy Ryders, which Veg. for just under 3 weeks, and flower for 6 to 7. The pictures on Attitude's site are clearly of the smaller phenotype Easy Ryder as well. The larger phenotype has very distinct differences as it starts to mature, and it grows much larger. My smaller pheno Easy Ryders topped out at around 9-10", but they're stocky and have just as much bud on them as the larger phenos. The larger phenos topped out at around 13-14".

I'll post pics tomorrow as I harvest Tiffany. My new gram scale arrived Thursday so I'll be able weigh her wet and dry.

enonumus said:

On side note... The larger phenotype Easy Ryders REALLY take a long time to mature! Another guy that's had a grow going about 2-3 weeks ahead of mine has been complaining of the same thing. Can't remember who it was but last I saw he said his girls were around day 75 or so and still had a ways to go. That's crazy for a strain that's supposed to go 7 weeks from seed to harvest according to Attitude's site. I think they screwed up and meant it was supposed to flower for 7 weeks. That would be right in line with the smaller phenotype Easy Ryders, which Veg. for just under 3 weeks, and flower for 6 to 7. The pictures on Attitude's site are clearly of the smaller phenotype Easy Ryder as well. The larger phenotype has very distinct differences as it starts to mature, and it grows much larger. My smaller pheno Easy Ryders topped out at around 9-10", but they're stocky and have just as much bud on them as the larger phenos. The larger phenos topped out at around 13-14".

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You're right. Mine went 10 weeks, although I think it takes a little longer outside. I emailed Attitude about it when I first got my seeds and read the inside of the box. It says flowering time is 7+ weeks and harvest 10/11 weeks from seed. They said thanks for the correction, but still haven't changed it on their website. It's worth the wait though, the bud, especially from the large pheno is pretty good. The thing is, if they go 10/11 weeks from seed, you can almost do a regular photo plant grow with a 3-4 veg in that amount of time.

sonar said:

You're right. Mine went 10 weeks, although I think it takes a little longer outside. The thing is, if they go 10/11 weeks from seed, you can almost do a regular photo plant grow with a 3-4 veg in that amount of time.

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My thoughts exactly, one of the top reasons I chose the Easy Ryders is because it allegedly had a 7 week seed to harvest time. When you're talking about an 11-12 week grow as it looks like my large ones are going to go to and some other people's Easy Ryders have gone, you're starting to approach the amount of time it takes for a short photoperiod grow.

Now if it takes an expensive 20/4 light cycle to grow a 1'-2' tall auto for nearly 90 days that only yields 3/4 to 1.5 Oz's, when you can run a 12/12 light cycle for most of a photoperiod grow and produce 3 to 5+ times that amount from a single plant in 120 days, it really doesn't make much sense to grow an auto. unless space is your primary concern. The only other advantages are that it flowers itself without having to induce it, it's shorter, it's a little easier to grow (usually), and harvests a little bit sooner.

totally agree with your assesment enonumus, I will point out one auto advantage... single chamber perpetual grows... for stealth and personal grows it can be important as no veg chamber needed ands you can throw a new seed in whenever you want/need to. But in general the extra wattage used is not worth it Id say

Day 67 and Tiffany has been chopped and harvested! Wow, that's a lot of work, even with just one plant. This was my smallest plant, and total wet weight was 75.9 grams I think, which includes a fair amount of stem of course. No clue what the dry and mostly de-stemmed weight will be, but visually it's definitely at least a 1/2 to 3/4 of an Oz (I'd guess closer to 3/4 but I could be wrong). I was amazed at how fast it started to dry once it was cut and trimmed, I wonder how long I'll need to leave it hanging. Pics to follow later...