Flushing

People say flushing agents are just a gimmick to get money but you could say the same of those who don't flush.

Not that this is true for everyone but you could say they are most likely "for profit" growers and not "connoisseur" growers. Waiting an extra week or so or spending extra to change flavor to them is just a waste of time, they don't care. It's all about time vs yield and nothing more.

This is why we have mass mediocre weed going around in dispensaries and people with no idea what good weed is saying "man look at this kill bud!!" When clearly it's not even that great!

Then people end up with mass amounts of crap that don't sell so they blast it and make mass oil to get something back out of the 40 pounds of weed they grew and couldn't push before it got old.

I'm sure there are connoisseur growers that don't flush too but it seems like all the for profit growers I've ever met are about pushing quantity not quality and could care less about extra efforts.

The reason I say things like "not true for everyone" or "you could say" here is cause I'm not trying to directly offend anyone by saying they are doing this, it's just a fact it has been done.

Someone please show me a decent article (doesn't even need to be peer reviewed or any of that shit) that argues your side, one that has good points that argue why flushing won't affect taste or even why not flushing makes it better or is bad practice. I'll actually read it and not just call you a troll cause I don't have anything better to say.

deno said:

They get you to 'buy in' to their methods, which will lead to you actually buying their products, whether they be flushing related or not. They probably believe the flushing stuff. I'm not saying they are dishonest. Most people who believe in pseudoscience are not dishonest - they are just foolish.

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Jesus, for the 10,000th time, they don’t have a product for flushing.

I’m now CONVINCED that 3 to 4 fresh water waterings (flush) is a must.

907cannabis said:

People say flushing agents are just a gimmick to get money but you could say the same of those who don't flush.

Not that this is true for everyone but you could say they are most likely "for profit" growers and not "connoisseur" growers. Waiting an extra week or so or spending extra to change flavor to them is just a waste of time, they don't care. It's all about time vs yield and nothing more.

This is why we have mass mediocre weed going around in dispensaries and people with no idea what good weed is saying "man look at this kill bud!!" When clearly it's not even that great!

Then people end up with mass amounts of crap that don't sell so they blast it and make mass oil to get something back out of the 40 pounds of weed they grew and couldn't push before it got old.

I'm sure there are connoisseur growers that don't flush too but it seems like all the for profit growers I've ever met are about pushing quantity not quality and could care less about extra efforts.

The reason I say things like "not true for everyone" or "you could say" here is cause I'm not trying to directly offend anyone by saying they are doing this, it's just a fact it has been done.

Someone please show me a decent article (doesn't even need to be peer reviewed or any of that shit) that argues your side, one that has good points that argue why flushing won't affect taste or even why not flushing makes it better or is bad practice. I'll actually read it and not just call you a troll cause I don't have anything better to say.

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Show me some good science where it shows flushing is useful. People don't understand science at all. One paper showing evidence is just one paper. It takes many independent observations before something is accepted as fact. Some people get it wrong, some get it right, but eventually the truth emerges. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. The claim is that flushing does 'good things'. I don't believe the claim. Prove to me you are right - do us all a favor. Flushing might actually work - I don't know. I do have the mental discipline to avoid turning assumptions into fact, then spreading them as fact. I seldom use the word 'lazy', but this flushing theory has all the earmarks of pseudoscience. It strikes me as lazy thinking, and lazy thinking in one area leads to lazy thinking in other areas.

907cannabis said:

People say flushing agents are just a gimmick to get money but you could say the same of those who don't flush.

Not that this is true for everyone but you could say they are most likely "for profit" growers and not "connoisseur" growers. Waiting an extra week or so or spending extra to change flavor to them is just a waste of time, they don't care. It's all about time vs yield and nothing more.

This is why we have mass mediocre weed going around in dispensaries and people with no idea what good weed is saying "man look at this kill bud!!" When clearly it's not even that great!

Then people end up with mass amounts of crap that don't sell so they blast it and make mass oil to get something back out of the 40 pounds of weed they grew and couldn't push before it got old.

I'm sure there are connoisseur growers that don't flush too but it seems like all the for profit growers I've ever met are about pushing quantity not quality and could care less about extra efforts.

The reason I say things like "not true for everyone" or "you could say" here is cause I'm not trying to directly offend anyone by saying they are doing this, it's just a fact it has been done.

Someone please show me a decent article (doesn't even need to be peer reviewed or any of that shit) that argues your side, one that has good points that argue why flushing won't affect taste or even why not flushing makes it better or is bad practice. I'll actually read it and not just call you a troll cause I don't have anything better to say.

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Actually leaching the pots or switching the res to water only has always been a cash crop technique. Overfeed with boosters to pump the plants up then flush to speed up ripening.

If you feed to the end properly there are only positives. But the plant will finish its cycle rather Than fade and finish. So I guess for a cash cropper on a time crunch it would be negative.

Overfeed. And you already have hurt the results. Nothing can fix that. You can leach "flush" the pots with fresh water and try to do better.

Also a good portion of yield and canabanoids are produced during the last 2 weeks. The plants need less but balanced nutrients to finish properly.

The other reason plants are faded is to speed up the curing process. Yellow leaves have a jump start on the chlorophyll curing out. Which is what tastes harsh. Not nutes. Again. Cash crop technique to move product quicker.

Crackling and sizzling is from improperly dried bud. Still moisture and chlorophyll inside the buds.

Many have provided proof of the science that negates flushing many times in this ridiculous argument thread. Then new people come in and start all over.

And continue with bro- science.

Daveindiego said:

Jesus, for the 10,000th time, they don’t have a product for flushing.

I’m now CONVINCED that 3 to 4 fresh water waterings (flush) is a must.

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For the 2nd time...
"They get you to 'buy in' to their methods, which will lead to you actually buying their products, whether they be flushing related or not. "
And it's obvious you are convinced. We can all see that.

Daveindiego said:

Jesus, for the 10,000th time, they don’t have a product for flushing.

I’m now CONVINCED that 3 to 4 fresh water waterings (flush) is a must.

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LOL! I'd like to talk to you about joining our church and accepting Jesus as your savior, (and sending us 10 percent of your income also)

907cannabis said:

People say flushing agents are just a gimmick to get money but you could say the same of those who don't flush.

Not that this is true for everyone but you could say they are most likely "for profit" growers and not "connoisseur" growers. Waiting an extra week or so or spending extra to change flavor to them is just a waste of time, they don't care. It's all about time vs yield and nothing more.

This is why we have mass mediocre weed going around in dispensaries and people with no idea what good weed is saying "man look at this kill bud!!" When clearly it's not even that great!

Then people end up with mass amounts of crap that don't sell so they blast it and make mass oil to get something back out of the 40 pounds of weed they grew and couldn't push before it got old.

I'm sure there are connoisseur growers that don't flush too but it seems like all the for profit growers I've ever met are about pushing quantity not quality and could care less about extra efforts.

The reason I say things like "not true for everyone" or "you could say" here is cause I'm not trying to directly offend anyone by saying they are doing this, it's just a fact it has been done.

Someone please show me a decent article (doesn't even need to be peer reviewed or any of that shit) that argues your side, one that has good points that argue why flushing won't affect taste or even why not flushing makes it better or is bad practice. I'll actually read it and not just call you a troll cause I don't have anything better to say.

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What is the base media we are trying to flush here, theres plenty of peer reviewed stuff on most things......

Daveindiego said:

Here is a H&G feed chart. Check out the 3-5 day flush at the end.

Please note that H&G sells NO product for flushing. They are not making additional income by putting a 3-5 day flush at the end of their chart schedule.

View attachment 4037859

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Of course they do it's called drip clean. Do you feed the amount suggested on that chart? If you think using water at the end helps do it until you can figure out the curing process, but giving water only cannot remove anything thats in the plant.
House & Garden - Drip Clean

907cannabis said:

What does that prove, high nutrient levels like used in indoor grows aren't found in natural environments.

Yes there is potassium and a little phosphorous in ash but where are you going with that? There's no nitrogen.... Maybe it's only the nitrogen that causes it?

There's also a whole list of other metals and other shit... What if those metals are causing it...some of which convert to oxides and may release gasses in the process, of these I'm sure some are more water soluble than others and would come out or be expelled by "starving" the source.

You are right there is science behind it, but it doesn't at all lean to one side.

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So your argument is being a shitty grower, right? Overfeed the whole grow with wrong nute ratio's and all you need to do is wash your dirt and it's good as new?

I'll break that last link down for you. Read the second sentence carefully.

What Minerals Do Wood Ashes Contain? Wood ashes contain all the mineral elements that were in the wood. Potassium, calcium, and magnesium carbonate or oxides are present in comparatively large quantities giving the ashes a strongly alkaline reaction which can neutralize acid soils.
So trees/plants grow for years, get cut down, dried, burned and still have minerals content in the ash, but you, hightimes, and the cannabis cup growers a devised a way to remove them in a week by adding water only?

KryptoBud said:

but you, hightimes, and the cannabis cup growers a devised a way to remove them in a week by adding water only?

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lol

907cannabis said:

There's also a whole list of other metals and other shit... What if those metals are causing it...some of which convert to oxides and may release gasses in the process, of these I'm sure some are more water soluble than others and would come out or be expelled by "starving" the source.

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Starving the source removes what?


All those pesky immobile nutes throw monkey wrench in that theory.

KryptoBud said:

Starving the source removes what?

All those pesky immobile nutes throw monkey wrench in that theory.

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But sulfur, copper and iron taste good.

KryptoBud said:

Of course they do it's called drip clean. Do you feed the amount suggested on that chart? If you think using water at the end helps do it until you can figure out the curing process, but giving water only cannot remove anything thats in the plant.
House & Garden - Drip Clean

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That product is if you’re running a DWC system, I’m growing in Coco, that Drip Clean isn’t used by me.

I did one grow using their recommendations. Now I have cut back to half.

KryptoBud said:

Of course they do it's called drip clean. Do you feed the amount suggested on that chart? If you think using water at the end helps do it until you can figure out the curing process, but giving water only cannot remove anything thats in the plant.
House & Garden - Drip Clean

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And it tends to turn soil into a fucking brick! JUNK!

They have you over feed by their charting. Then they have you add drip clean and water to a healthy run off? AN part 2! "Send us your money." And we'll supply you with a shit ton of bottles and over prices supplements with overblown claims and in the end. Turn your plants into yellowing crispy critters....

907cannabis said:

People say flushing agents are just a gimmick to get money but you could say the same of those who don't flush.

Not that this is true for everyone but you could say they are most likely "for profit" growers and not "connoisseur" growers. Waiting an extra week or so or spending extra to change flavor to them is just a waste of time, they don't care. It's all about time vs yield and nothing more.

This is why we have mass mediocre weed going around in dispensaries and people with no idea what good weed is saying "man look at this kill bud!!" When clearly it's not even that great!

Then people end up with mass amounts of crap that don't sell so they blast it and make mass oil to get something back out of the 40 pounds of weed they grew and couldn't push before it got old.

I'm sure there are connoisseur growers that don't flush too but it seems like all the for profit growers I've ever met are about pushing quantity not quality and could care less about extra efforts.

The reason I say things like "not true for everyone" or "you could say" here is cause I'm not trying to directly offend anyone by saying they are doing this, it's just a fact it has been done.

Someone please show me a decent article (doesn't even need to be peer reviewed or any of that shit) that argues your side, one that has good points that argue why flushing won't affect taste or even why not flushing makes it better or is bad practice. I'll actually read it and not just call you a troll cause I don't have anything better to say.

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This has to be, by far, the worst load of BULL SHIT on the subject I have ever read!

How about you read this then? Don't forget the linked post on the bottom of it!

"I got asked about this in a PM by a member after seeing the disaster another thread became. He asked where to find books and papers on "flushing" and said he might try the "fade".

Here's my answer to him......I felt it needs to be seen,,,,,,again!

Your looking for post grad work. You would do better to search papers......The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds, but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!

There you go Mods, nice, polite and to the point. (Sorry about the other thread Sunni)

There you go, Now have at it!
I'm stepping back to watch the circus.

Read this too!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622

NO plant, in any style of production for consumption, especially tobacco products. EVER gets "flushed".....

@Daveindiego I hope you too, read this again Dave......

Proper cure, proper cure, PROPER CURE!

if the "cannabis cup winners" are going for the {best} taste, then they should be growing with L.E.D lights and organic soil, that is the only way to get magical unicorn farts

Cannabis cup - To me, that's another joke now a days.

The best fire strains might make a local cup but, when was the last time you saw the best breeders gear in a cup?
I have to admit, I'm amused to see some of the new breeders of fire on Attitude's list....I also laugh that all their "fire" gear is sold out too.

The HIGH TIMES name in it gives it away as BS. They started out with the right idea. Then HT got commercialized and doesn't support the truth. They are supported by advertising dollars.....
These advertisers also foot much of the bill for the cup. One's that do, have had HT add a fairly new section to the judging. The "flush"......UTTER BS! These financial "supporters" make useless flushing products to steal your money on bro science and novice grower belief's with no base in science fact!

Now how many of these advertisers would still run their ads if HT told the truth? Even Danny Danko is forced to lie (flush). I feel he's no more then a sell out!

Dr. Who said:

Cannabis cup - To me, that's another joke now a days.

The best fire strains might make a local cup but, when was the last time you saw the best breeders gear in a cup?
I have to admit, I'm amused to see some of the new breeders of fire on Attitude's list....I also laugh that all their "fire" gear is sold out too.

The HIGH TIMES name in it gives it away as BS. They started out with the right idea. Then HT got commercialized and doesn't support the truth. They are supported by advertising dollars.....
These advertisers also foot much of the bill for the cup. One's that do, have had HT add a fairly new section to the judging. The "flush"......UTTER BS! These financial "supporters" make useless flushing products to steal your money on bro science and novice grower belief's with no base in science fact!

Now how many of these advertisers would still run their ads if HT told the truth? Even Danny Danko is forced to lie (flush). I feel he's no more then a sell out!

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Oh well

Daveindiego said:

That product is if you’re running a DWC system, I’m growing in Coco, that Drip Clean isn’t used by me.

I did one grow using their recommendations. Now I have cut back to half.

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https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-content/uploads/aqua-cocos-hydro-feed-chart.pdf

It's a flushing agent, just like every other flushing agent on the market. Not only is it made for coco it's to be used in every feeding. Here's the kicker! Ingredients: Phosphoric acid and potassium oxide. Flushing "chemicals" out of plants with more "chemicals"

Happy flushing everyone.

Daveindiego said:

Nope. Dried and cured to absolute perfection.

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You would be surprised at what you can learn over the years to increase the quality of your harvest by just the dry/cure alone.

i can tell you quick dry your harvest by the texture/color and really im not picking on you but if you really want something to experiment with then i think you should attempt a longer more controlled dry period.