Genetic question

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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Kite High said:
because cs in unreliable...try sts...works like a charm every time...haven't encountered one resistor to two spray a week apart twice when initiating flower
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no what that means if there is a dosage that has a vaiable effect then I can use that as a selection criteria. ie if 1% of the treated plants refuse to produce male flowers on a genetic female, then I can select those plants for the next generation and maybe the next generation will be less susceptible to that environmental respone.

and oh BTW Silver is NOT a plant hormone. Its a protein destructive element, a usefull antimicroial tool after all its really just another heavy metal like lead or cadmium.


In simple terms:

If I spray a 100 genetic female plants with a weak solution of CS or ST than normal and only 90% of the plants produce male flowers, whats more valuable ? The 10% that refused to produce male or the 90% that did produce male flowers?
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
no what that means if there is a dosage that has a vaiable effect then I can use that as a selection criteria. ie if 1% of the treated plants refuse to produce male flowers on a genetic female, then I can select those plants for the next generation and maybe the next generation will be less susceptible to that environmental respone.

and oh BTW Silver is NOT a plant hormone. Its a protein destructive element, a usefull antimicroial tool after all its really just another heavy metal like lead or cadmium.


In simple terms:

If I spray a 100 genetic female plants with a weak solution of CS or ST than normal and only 90% of the plants produce male flowers, whats more valuable ? The 10% that refused to produce male or the 90% that did produce male flowers?
Click to expand...
never said silver is a hormone... I am not an idiot as I hope you are aware by now

Silver simply masks or displaces the copper which the receptors require to detect the ehtylene which is a gaseous hormone

If one were looking to breed with these then the very apparent answer would be a choice of those which are easier to block...not like any dissolved suspended silver ions will be blown or sprayed on them accidentally or in nature but only if desired...see what I believe you are missing is that the survival trait which kicks in on most strains at the end of flower is not at play at all in the process...so progeny would be no more likely to express those trait than the parents
 
Trousers

Trousers

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
no what that means if there is a dosage that has a vaiable effect then I can use that as a selection criteria. ie if 1% of the treated plants refuse to produce male flowers on a genetic female, then I can select those plants for the next generation and maybe the next generation will be less susceptible to that environmental respone.

and oh BTW Silver is NOT a plant hormone. Its a protein destructive element, a usefull antimicroial tool after all its really just another heavy metal like lead or cadmium.


In simple terms:

If I spray a 100 genetic female plants with a weak solution of CS or ST than normal and only 90% of the plants produce male flowers, whats more valuable ? The 10% that refused to produce male or the 90% that did produce male flowers?
Click to expand...
I thought we were just being snarky. We escalated to name calling?
If that is what you want, I'm your huckleberry.

If you are spraying plants with colloidal silver to look for ones that do not produce male flowers, you are barking up the wrong tree. What would be the point of breeding for resistance to colloidal silver? Do growers ofter have colloidal silver sprayed on their plants when they do not want it? (If you used my colloidal silver, I bet 99 out of 100 would show male flowers at least.)

You wouldn't be selecting for resistance to environmental stress as colloidal silver does not really stress plants. It for shizzle does not stress them in the most common ways e.g. over feeding and heat. some breeders do stress the shit out of their plants, but in common ways, to select good candidates. Some breeders produce finicky varieties that noobs stress to "hermie" and experienced growers grow fine.

I didn't say colloidal silver is a hormone. I said it effects hormones.

I use colloidal silver that is around 50 ppm. Many people drink more than the amount I would use on 20 plants to combat sickness. (I would not recommend consuming colloidal silver with out researching it extensively.)
 
Apomixis

Apomixis

Active Member
The word is 'regardless', 'irregardless' is ircorrect.
Sorry, that's for puplebuz. And anyone else who says it.
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Kite High said:
never said silver is a hormone... I am not an idiot as I hope you are aware by now

Silver simply masks or displaces the copper which the receptors require to detect the ehtylene which is a gaseous hormone
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haha no I wasn't aware, but did not mean to imply.

Physiological pathways to plant flowering at a biochemical level are poorly understood. Still today people talk about "Florigen" the plant flowering hormone, but to my knowledge there is still no real identified "Florigen". What we understand is purely a causal relationship. Example. Shorten Days and Cannabis Flowers, supposedly because Pfr balance is changed. But after that nobody really understands.

The actual pathway that causes a female plant to produce male flowers is even less understood. There are a number of known external stimuli that can cause the change, but nobody understands whats happening physiologically. Ethylene is a gas, its known as a ripening agent and occurs throughout nature as bio material breaks down. Flowering in a number of plants can be triggered with Ethylene, which can be triggered by smoke from fires. But Ethylene is not a flowering hormone. If anything basic logic indicates that increasing ethylene during flower formation should increase the production of male flowers, since its the ripening hormone. However the action of silver contradicts that logic. In fact anything that antagonizes the action of ethylene may cause the formation of male flowers.

It is absolutely presumptuous to assume that the action of silver does not trigger a common root pathway to create male flowers on a female plant that is shared with other environmental stress factors.

Shouldn't breeders take every measure possible to deselect for the tendency to produce male flowers on a female plant? Why take the chance of inadvertently selecting for that based on a poorly understood causal relationship?

Selfing a female plant is not the only way to develop a homozygous pure bred strain. It can be done just as well if not better with familial crossing and backcrossing. There simply isn't a need to force male flowers to breed improved strains.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
haha no I wasn't aware, but did not mean to imply.

Physiological pathways to plant flowering at a biochemical level are poorly understood. Still today people talk about "Florigen" the plant flowering hormone, but to my knowledge there is still no real identified "Florigen". What we understand is purely a causal relationship. Example. Shorten Days and Cannabis Flowers, supposedly because Pfr balance is changed. But after that nobody really understands.

The actual pathway that causes a female plant to produce male flowers is even less understood. There are a number of known external stimuli that can cause the change, but nobody understands whats happening physiologically. Ethylene is a gas, its known as a ripening agent and occurs throughout nature as bio material breaks down. Flowering in a number of plants can be triggered with Ethylene, which can be triggered by smoke from fires. But Ethylene is not a flowering hormone. If anything basic logic indicates that increasing ethylene during flower formation should increase the production of male flowers, since its the ripening hormone. However the action of silver contradicts that logic. In fact anything that antagonizes the action of ethylene may cause the formation of male flowers.

It is absolutely presumptuous to assume that the action of silver does not trigger a common root pathway to create male flowers on a female plant that is shared with other environmental stress factors.

Shouldn't breeders take every measure possible to deselect for the tendency to produce male flowers on a female plant? Why take the chance of inadvertently selecting for that based on a poorly understood causal relationship?

Selfing a female plant is not the only way to develop a homozygous pure bred strain. It can be done just as well if not better with familial crossing and backcrossing. There simply isn't a need to force male flowers to breed improved strains.
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You are seeking argument based on things not even implied here...have a good one PB
 
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PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
polyarcturus said:
yeah guys! c,mon it just basic "genetics". man put you hands in your pockets instead of on the keyboard. if "genetics" are so basic then why are they making you look the fool? "genetics, so easy a caveman could do it":roll:

why dont you listen stop lying, read, and learn. they give tough love, but they are intelligent and will provide the proper answers if you just read and do the research yourself.
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thats an assine respsonse taken completely out of context.

Basic principles of Plant Breeding including population variability, trait inheritability, and selectability led to my conclusion that ANY external stimulus that causes male flowers to be produced on a female plant should be avoided.
 
polyarcturus

polyarcturus

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
thats an assine respsonse taken completely out of context.

Basic principles of Plant Breeding including population variability, trait inheritability, and selectability led to my conclusion that ANY external stimulus that causes male flowers to be produced on a female plant should be avoided.
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purple, your not that good of a troll, i could crush with ease, im not even gonna waste my time with you.
 
Trousers

Trousers

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
It is absolutely presumptuous to assume that the action of silver does not trigger a common root pathway to create male flowers on a female plant that is shared with other environmental stress factors.
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It is absolutely stupid to assume that colloidal silver does share "a common root pathway."

PurpleBuz said:
Shouldn't breeders take every measure possible to deselect for the tendency to produce male flowers on a female plant?
Click to expand...
No. You are arguing for pissing against the wind and making varieties for crappy growers.


PurpleBuz said:
Why take the chance of inadvertently selecting for that based on a poorly understood causal relationship?
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Poorly understood, lol.


PurpleBuz said:
Selfing a female plant is not the only way to develop a homozygous pure bred strain. It can be done just as well if not better with familial crossing and backcrossing. There simply isn't a need to force male flowers to breed improved strains.
Click to expand...
You don't know what you are talking about.
 
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