Georgie's reputation may be ready for a rebound

kendothegreenwizard

kendothegreenwizard

Active Member
Johnnyorganic said:
When they contacted the girl who sold the vehicle all she had on the buyer was an email address.

The Feds took over from there. And they tracked a few calls to Pakistan in the process.

Good police work, huh?
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Ya good police work.Huh! Simply because you think the patriot act is the end all to beat all. the same thing was possible and done without the overreaching powers of the patriot act.
You do realize that the PAtriot act enables the Gov't to spy on MPP. Which I am a member of also BTW. As WELL AS DPFCA and canorml and ASA and Safe access now. The patriot act allows them all to be spied on.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
kendothegreenwizard said:
Ya good police work.Huh! Simply because you think the patriot act is the end all to beat all. the same thing was possible and done without the overreaching powers of the patriot act.
You do realize that the PAtriot act enables the Gov't to spy on MPP. Which I am a member of also BTW. As WELL AS DPFCA and canorml and ASA and Safe access now. The patriot act allows them all to be spied on.
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I never said it was the end all to beat all. I simply pointed out that Both Bush and Obama signed off on it.

And I further pointed out that that it was the Patriot Act that identified the Times Square Bomber, not the gumshoes.

Any use beyond tracking foreign terrorism is abuse.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
You are referring to the same Patriot Act President Obama reauthorized this year.

And the same Patriot Act which directly resulted in the capture of the Times Square Bomber.

Huh....
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I never said he was better! but Bush's administration is responsible for it's existance which is why I also stated he opened the door to further abuses of power.

And you're wrong about the bomber. The dumbass took off one of the vin #'s on the car when there are like 15 in various places. They tracked the car to a girl in Boston I think, and she gave them the information on the guy. This was not a hard case to crack, do some research.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
I never said it was the end all to beat all. I simply pointed out that Both Bush and Obama signed off on it.

And I further pointed out that that it was the Patriot Act that identified the Times Square Bomber, not the gumshoes.

Any use beyond tracking foreign terrorism is abuse.
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It didn't have anything to do with the Patriot Act. This guy was an idiot and very sloppy. It was the gumshoes! a 5 year old kid could've follow this guy's trail.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
When they contacted the girl who sold the vehicle all she had on the buyer was an email address.

The Feds took over from there. And they tracked a few calls to Pakistan in the process.

Good police work, huh?
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That doesn't have anything to do with the patriot act, with that information they could have easily obtained a warrent.

kendothegreenwizard said:
I never bought the hype that GWB was an idiot. The drawl and the whole I don't read thing was IMHO really just a ruse to endear him to middle america. Cmon the guy went to YAle for Gods sake.
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If that was meant to be sarcastic please excuse this post.

He graduated with a C average which I'm sure his daddy paid for. Do you not think his family has conections?
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
stonedmetalhead1 said:
I never said he was better! but Bush's administration is responsible for it's existance which is why I also stated he opened the door to further abuses of power.

And your wrong about the bomber. The dumbass took off one of the vin #'s on the car when there are like 15 in various places. They tracked the car to a girl in Boston I think, and she gave them the information on the guy. This was not a hard case to crack, do some research.
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Perhaps you should do some research yourself.

The only viable information the bomber gave the seller was an email address, everything else was false. The Feds took it from there.

Try to keep up.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Again, with that information they could legaly obtain a warrent without using the patriot act. I'm sorry but your first post of rambling nonsense got a reply out of me before I read your other stupid posts.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
stonedmetalhead1 said:
Again, with that information they could legaly obtain a warrent without using the patriot act.
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Based solely on an email address they could have gathered all of that information about the bomber without the Patriot Act; before he was off to Pakistan?

You're funny.

They just barely apprehended him as it is.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
They tracked him all day to see who he was talking to. He almost got away, what a laugh. They could've picked him up anytime, the media was just trying to play it up. And yes, the email adress and the girls information would've been enough for a warrent to identify who he was, the patriot act had nothing to do with it. The Patriot Act doesn't have special powers to obtain information quicker it just allows them to go around the law when they feel like it. In this case they didn't have to.

You're funny.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
stonedmetalhead1 said:
They tracked him all day to see who he was talking to. He almost got away, what a laugh. They could've picked him up anytime, the media was just trying to play it up. And yes, the email adress and the girls information would've been enough for a warrent to identify who he was, the patriot act had nothing to do with it.

You're funny.
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Then kindly explain how he was allowed to board the plane to Dubai.

They almost let him get away anyway.

Had they jumped through all the hoops you insist they should have jumped through, he would have escaped.

If I'm funny, you are hilarious.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
They were trying to see if anyone else was involved, the feds came out and said this. The media even came out and said it. There was never a chance that he was going to get away.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Then kindly explain how he was allowed to board the plane to Dubai.

They almost let him get away anyway.

Had they jumped through all the hoops you insist they should have jumped through, he would have escaped.

If I'm funny, you are hilarious.
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What is it that you think they used the patriot act for? I just don't understand how you think they implemented it.
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
With respect to the Patriot Act, I was aware through previous threads (as RIU is one of my main sources for info nowadays) that Obama only re-authorized a few provisions in it, am I incorrect?

Also, I am not sure what provision in the Patriot Act allowed the the police/feds to catch this guy. I would think that with a crime of this nature you could bend rules to get whatever info you wanted...just my hunch though.

As far as the original topic, it looks as if ol' W is just trying to wrangle up publicity before his book hits shelves. Looks like it is working, since we are all talking about it now. I hated his presidency but found it hard to hate him as a president....more of just a puppet. I would still punch the guy if I met him in person though
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
dukeofbaja said:
With respect to the Patriot Act, I was aware through previous threads (as RIU is one of my main sources for info nowadays) that Obama only re-authorized a few provisions in it, am I incorrect?

Also, I am not sure what provision in the Patriot Act allowed the the police/feds to catch this guy. I would think that with a crime of this nature you could bend rules to get whatever info you wanted...just my hunch though.

As far as the original topic, it looks as if ol' W is just trying to wrangle up publicity before his book hits shelves. Looks like it is working, since we are all talking about it now. I hated his presidency but found it hard to hate him as a president....more of just a puppet. I would still punch the guy if I met him in person though
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Bahahahah!!! You're too funny! This thread really took off last night. I don't think W is trying to wrangle publicity. It seems to be his nemesis (the media) which is helping him these days. I won't be purchasing his book. If there is something super revealing I'm sure I'll hear about it here. I have heard that Obama only re-authorized a few provisions but I honestly can't remember what he re-authorized. If I get bored I'll look it up and post it later. :weed:
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
For a lot of us, it is really easy to absolutely hate the man's guts for a select few things (especially the Iraq War, its lead up, the changing justifications, Mission fucking Accomplished....7 fucking years and thousands of lives ago) shade out all the other decent things....like his immigration reform that didn't pass. That is at least how I feel.

PS - I might have frozen in that classroom, too.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
stonedmetalhead1 said:
What is it that you think they used the patriot act for? I just don't understand how you think they implemented it.
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You are the one who does not understand.

All the police had was the vehicle and some grainy video surveillance footage. There was a fingerprint on a propane tank so they we able to find out who he was using conventional forensics, but not where he was. They tracked the vehicle to the seller. Traditional police work. But the visit to the seller resulted in one viable piece of evidence, an email address. Everything else the buyer provided the seller was bullshit. This is where traditional police work stops and the Patriot Act begins.

From that one email address, the Federal investigators were able to very quickly divine a wealth of information. They were not only able able to identify the suspect, but even track down a disposable cellphone account he used. They listened in on his calls back to Pakistan. The only wrinkle is the Emirates Airline (Dubai) did not update it's No Fly list in a timely manner. Otherwise he would not have been allowed on the plane.

Take away the Patriot Act and that monkey would sitting in Pakistan or some other third world Muslim shithole right now.

Does this mean I support the use of the Patriot Act to investigate domestic criminal cases? Hell no. I support its use specifically for the purpose it was designed to target: Foreign sponsored terrorism. No more.
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
You are the one who does not understand.

All the police had was the vehicle and some grainy video surveillance footage. There was a fingerprint on a propane tank so they we able to find out who he was using conventional forensics, but not where he was. They tracked the vehicle to the seller. Traditional police work. But the visit to the seller resulted in one viable piece of evidence, an email address. Everything else the buyer provided the seller was bullshit. This is where traditional police work stops and the Patriot Act begins.

From that one email address, the Federal investigators were able to very quickly divine a wealth of information. They were not only able able to identify the suspect, but even track down a disposable cellphone account he used. They listened in on his calls back to Pakistan. The only wrinkle is the Emirates Airline (Dubai) did not update it's No Fly list in a timely manner. Otherwise he would not have been allowed on the plane.

Take away the Patriot Act and that monkey would sitting in Pakistan or some other third world Muslim shithole right now.

Does this mean I support the use of the Patriot Act to investigate domestic criminal cases? Hell no. I support its use specifically for the purpose it was designed to target: Foreign sponsored terrorism. No more.
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All that I am saying is that at this point they didn't need the Patriot Act. They legaly could get the information resulting from the email adress without it. Just because they listened to his phone calls doesn't mean they used the Patriot Act they had probable cause, they didn't need to. Your still not stating how they invoked the Patriot Act or how it led to his arrest. The Patriot Act deals with Pro-active measures, once the crime was commited the Patriot Act doesn't apply. It's not like they were listening to his phone calls before this happened.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
stonedmetalhead1 said:
All that I am saying is that at this point they didn't need the Patriot Act. They legaly could get the information resulting from the email adress without it. Just because they listened to his phone calls doesn't mean they used the Patriot Act they had probable cause, they didn't need to. Your still not stating how they invoked the Patriot Act or how it led to his arrest. The Patriot Act deals with Pro-active measures, once the crime was commited the Patriot Act doesn't apply.
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I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and state that you fail to understand because you choose to do so.

Without the access granted by the Patriot Act, the additional time it would have taken to gather all the information meant that by the time law enforcement could line up all of the necessary paperwork, warrants and subpoenas; the terrorist would be safely in a cave somewhere in Pakistan making a videotape.

The NSA (I assume it was NSA) acting under the authority of the Patriot Act did in a couple of hours what would have taken days (at least) using conventional law enforcement methods and procedures.

Where did you get the idea that the Patriot Act was strictly pro-active? LOL!

It does not apply? ROTFLMFAO!
 
stonedmetalhead1

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
Johnnyorganic said:
I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and state that you fail to understand because you choose to do so.
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Have you read the patriot act? I have.

Without the access granted by the Patriot Act, the additional time it would have taken to gather all the information meant that by the time law enforcement could line up all of the necessary paperwork, warrants and subpoenas; the terrorist would be safely in a cave somewhere in Pakistan making a videotape.
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What are you talking about?

The NSA (I assume it was NSA) acting under the authority of the Patriot Act did in a couple of hours what would have taken days (at least) using conventional law enforcement methods and procedures.
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Why do thnk it would have taken days?

Where did you get the idea that the Patriot Act was strictly pro-active? LOL!

It does not apply? ROTFLMFAO!
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The Patriot Act deals with being able to spy on people without the use of a warrant. It allows them to do things like go to libraries and see who checked out what books, it allows them to wire tap without a warrant and things to that nature. You obviously haven't read the Patriot Act or maybe you just don't understand it. PLease state in what part of the patriot act helped in the capture of the time squre bomber.
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
I have read the Patriot Act. No where does it state that only pro-active measure are permitted.

The vehicle identification number had been removed from the bomb-laden 1993 Nissan Pathfinder left in Times Square. But investigators were able to lift it from a second location on the vehicle, and used that to track down a Connecticut man who said he had sold the Pathfinder for cash about three weeks ago.

The man had offered the vehicle on Craigslist, and FBI agents were able to recover the number from a disposable cellphone that had been used by the buyer.

The suspect didn't still have the phone. But using a lot of technology and access to database, agents located the suspect.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36738.html#ixzz0nBgrHWsV

So how was all that information gathered so quckly? So rapidly as to allow the Attorney General to announce an arrest of the suspect at 1:30 a.m. on a Sunday morning?

I know the answer as well as you. But I have the sneaking suspicion you will cling to your original gumshoe answer. :-P
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