"Government will not appeal the Allard medical pot ruling" Philpott

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JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
torontomeds said:
You all are putting way too much thought into this topic, none of you see the silver lining? None of it matters. Why you ask? because of a few reasons, but I will say 2 of them.

- It will be legal sooner then later

- if you have a medical reason/grow, no matter what they say as long as you are not trafficking / selling they will not fuck with you.
if they came back and said 25 plants lets say, and say you need 70 plants, 2 things come into play, (unless they start inspecting every grow, impossible) you can still grow your 70 plants because who the fuck is going to know or care, second factor is if someone did care it would only be an infraction kind of like when a corporate company dumps toxic waste and gets off with a fine. If you have a true need for your 70 plants (lets say Cancer) you think a judged is going to jail you for having 45 plants over the "Limit"?
Not to mention my first point, it will be legal soon, police eventually will stop chasing this type of shit, unless you pop up on some cops radar as a trafficker who the fucking is going to know or care what your doing to help your self get better.

At the end of the day none of this shit matters, we won, they are re working the system as we speak, things will change, over time this will be a moot issue. It is not just about the non Cannabis/opposition changing, but also people in our community changing, if you want respect in the world you have to earn it, and you do not earn it by bitching and complaining and fantasizing about potential conspiracy.
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As far as the 'medical need' defense, that seems to spring from the misinterpretation of Parker after Mernagh. You absolutely do not have a 'right' to use medical cannabis. You have a right to a constitutional exemption from prohibition. And as it stands, that exemption is predicated on having a Doctor authorize you. An interesting part of this is how the LPC 'legalizes', if cannabis is completely taken off the CDSA this will open the door to 'clarifying' this issue even further in the favor of the patients. Turmel also thought 'no judge will condemn people to die' when he asked for a left-out remedy from Phelan while Allard was still ongoing, and needless to say he did not get his remedy. Your statement about someone with Cancer is almost verbatim, one of turmel's statements.

Further to that, depending on how cannabis is legalized, it is quite possible that going over a plant 'limit' = jail time. This isn't a corporation dumping waste.

I'm really not sure how 'it will be legal soon' applies to the details of how it is legalized. I'm honestly not trying to be combative here but if you're going to willfully ignore the realities of fact and law, I'm not sure why anyone should buy into what you're saying.
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
TheRealDman said:
And there is your risk that needs to be covered. Not everyone is an electrical whiz. Go ask your insurance company what they think of you growing say 50 tomato plants under 4k of HID...you make be shocked at their response! Just for shits and giggles, make sure you tell them you did all the wiring yourself! ;)

Bottom line.....AGAIN, there are no standard insurance companies that cover MMJ...safe or not. Lloyds is the only company with current MMJ policies, and will be the ONLY one to offer new MMJ policies.

Just because something is legal does not make it possible for you to force insurance companies to issue coverage. For example, lots of insurance companies will not insure houses worth more than $1M, other insurance companies will not insure cars over $100k, or have a 25 year old min age requirement...others will not insure houses with old knob and tube electrical wiring, or lead plumbing pipes, or septic systems more than 30 years old...the list goes on dude.
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people who do not know and who do work in their house pay for it everyday by not doing it right ....INS companies are good at finding it to in most cases.
So no permit..no inspection = no good.
but...that is their job in the end. :)

none of them will want to inspect...but they may ad more to your INS if they state GROWING in their rules.
 
J

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
gb123 said:
people who do not know and who do work in their house pay for it everyday by not doing it right ....INS companies are good at finding it to in most cases.
So no permit..no inspection = no good.
but...that is their job in the end. :)
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Yep, having an electrical inspection done once a year is kind of a no brainer, they may even catch something that ends up saving you money. Insurance is a very tricky thing to deal with here both because of the 'passive' effect (you can't get insurance for MJ) and the 'active' effect (many policies / municipalities will penalize you if it comes out you grow).
 
torontoke

torontoke

Well-Known Member
TheRealDman said:
And there is your risk that needs to be covered. Not everyone is an electrical whiz. Go ask your insurance company what they think of you growing say 50 tomato plants under 4k of HID...you make be shocked at their response! Just for shits and giggles, make sure you tell them you did all the wiring yourself! ;)

Bottom line.....AGAIN, there are no standard insurance companies that cover MMJ...safe or not. Lloyds is the only company with current MMJ policies, and will be the ONLY one to offer new MMJ policies.

Just because something is legal does not make it possible for you to force insurance companies to issue coverage. For example, lots of insurance companies will not insure houses worth more than $1M, other insurance companies will not insure cars over $100k, or have a 25 year old min age requirement...others will not insure houses with old knob and tube electrical wiring, or lead plumbing pipes, or septic systems more than 30 years old...the list goes on dude.
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Sounds like you should start "the sensible insurance company" then.
You have been talking bout insurance for what a year now?
I get it insurance will be the next hurdle bit my advice would be
Explain to the same insurance companies that you also have life insurance through that if you don't get your meds you may die and your life policy will cost them more than ur house value? Might make some companies think twice. Just my .2cents
 
torontomeds

torontomeds

Well-Known Member
JungleStrikeGuy said:
As far as the 'medical need' defense, that seems to spring from the misinterpretation of Parker after Mernagh. You absolutely do not have a 'right' to use medical cannabis. You have a right to a constitutional exemption from prohibition. And as it stands, that exemption is predicated on having a Doctor authorize you. An interesting part of this is how the LPC 'legalizes', if cannabis is completely taken off the CDSA this will open the door to 'clarifying' this issue even further in the favor of the patients. Turmel also thought 'no judge will condemn people to die' when he asked for a left-out remedy from Phelan while Allard was still ongoing, and needless to say he did not get his remedy. Your statement about someone with Cancer is almost verbatim, one of turmel's statements.

Further to that, depending on how cannabis is legalized, it is quite possible that going over a plant 'limit' = jail time. This isn't a corporation dumping waste.

I'm really not sure how 'it will be legal soon' applies to the details of how it is legalized. I'm honestly not trying to be combative here but if you're going to willfully ignore the realities of fact and law, I'm not sure why anyone should buy into what you're saying.
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When I say "medical need" I am talking about anyone who has been approved by a dr to use Cannabis be it, MMAR or MMPR.

Like I have had it prescribed to me more then once, I have a medical need, I did not just wake up and say I have a need, I have a DR who agrees.
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
JungleStrikeGuy said:
Yep, having an electrical inspection done once a year is kind of a no brainer, they may even catch something that ends up saving you money. Insurance is a very tricky thing to deal with here both because of the 'passive' effect (you can't get insurance for MJ) and the 'active' effect (many policies / municipalities will penalize you if it comes out you grow).
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once a year? :?
 
J

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
torontomeds said:
When I say "medical need" I am talking about anyone who has been approved by a dr to use Cannabis be it, MMAR or MMPR.

Like I have had it prescribed to me more then once, I have a medical need, I did not just wake up and say I have a need, I have a DR who agrees.
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Then we're on the same page :)

One thing I'd be interested to see is the clinic approval rate or something similar as compared to other provinces, there's a few 'clinics' opening in Alberta but the College is pretty draconian about the MJ regulations here.
 
TheRealDman

TheRealDman

Well-Known Member
gb123 said:
people who do not know and who do work in their house pay for it everyday by not doing it right ....INS companies are good at finding it to in most cases.
So no permit..no inspection = no good.
but...that is their job in the end. :)

none of them will want to inspect...but they may ad more to your INS if they state GROWING in their rules.
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From what I've been told, MMJ coverage will require an electrical inspection at the minimum. As you mentioned, most insurance inspectors will catch risks (that's their job as you said), but my Broker says an ESA inspection will be needed.

As with anyone obtaining homeowners insurance, it comes with an inspection. This is an easy solution to address any perceived risk(s) the Gov may have.
 
torontomeds

torontomeds

Well-Known Member
As a matter of fact that is what happened to Matt right? did he not get told to go get a note from a DR and charges will be dropped? or something to that effect. So he did it and he got out of shit, just like anyone who gets charged with MJ can go get a script from one of the clinics, present it in court, and I am sure that will cover your ass.
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
JungleStrikeGuy said:
'The minister would not say whether the revised rules would allow patients to grow their own after that time'
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Just a knee-jerk statement made without forethought by Phillpot.
How would the rules be revised to meet the court's ruling that I have a constitutional right to grow without me being able to grow?
Until that question is answered, any predictions of our gardens being banned is just fear mongering about the hypothetical.
 
J

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
torontomeds said:
As a matter of fact that is what happened to Matt right? did he not get told to go get a note from a DR and charges will be dropped? or something to that effect. So he did it and he got out of shit, just like anyone who gets charged with MJ can go get a script from one of the clinics, present it in court, and I am sure that will cover your ass.
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Not quite, as a footnote in the Mernagh judgement Taliano said that 'he hoped the crown would take into account Mr.Mernagh's willingness to get a MMPR script bla bla'. That was an 'avoid jail time' kind of thing though, not a precedent for everyone else.

It's heartening to see the favorable rulings we've been getting recently, but strictly speaking the regs are in place for at least 6 months. So it's entirely up to the judge (and as mentioned above, you roll the dice when it comes to what the judge is going to do).
 
J

JungleStrikeGuy

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
Just a knee-jerk statement made without forethought by Phillpot.
How would the rules be revised to meet the court's ruling that I have a constitutional right to grow without me being able to grow?
Until that question is answered, any predictions of our gardens being banned is just fear mongering about the hypothetical.
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Like, no, so much no. Criticism of the government based on what they say is not 'hypothetical'.

I think we're to the point that we're just saying the same things though, so I think we can all agree on the fact that we'll know for sure by the August deadline (maybe earlier if they do consultations) :)
 
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TheRealDman

TheRealDman

Well-Known Member
torontoke said:
Sounds like you should start "the sensible insurance company" then.
You have been talking bout insurance for what a year now?
I get it insurance will be the next hurdle bit my advice would be
Explain to the same insurance companies that you also have life insurance through that if you don't get your meds you may die and your life policy will cost them more than ur house value? Might make some companies think twice. Just my .2cents
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You need $1B to start Underwriting insurance policies in ON. Even if small brokerages pooled together, they could not reach the funds needed to underwrite "their own policies". I guarantee you, and anyone here....if your current insurance company gets wind of your MMJ grow you will be dropped. As I've said before, call any insurance company in Canada...Google insurance companies local to you, and ask them the hypothetical MMJ grow question?

And....the only reason I've been talking about this for over year, is because I am a victim of its circumstance. I've just be trying to tell you folks that you are not covered no matter how safe your grow is, or how good you think your homeowners policy is. Start by reading the fine print clauses in your current policies.
 
redi jedi

redi jedi

Well-Known Member
torontomeds said:
As a matter of fact that is what happened to Matt right? did he not get told to go get a note from a DR and charges will be dropped? or something to that effect. So he did it and he got out of shit, just like anyone who gets charged with MJ can go get a script from one of the clinics, present it in court, and I am sure that will cover your ass.
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Mernagh works for an LP now...lol
 
torontoke

torontoke

Well-Known Member
TheRealDman said:
You need $1B to start Underwriting insurance policies in ON. Even if small brokerages pooled together, they could not reach the funds needed to underwrite "their own policies". I guarantee you, and anyone here....if your current insurance company gets wind of your MMJ grow you will be dropped. As I've said before, call any insurance company in Canada...Google insurance companies local to you, and ask them the hypothetical MMJ grow question?

And....the only reason I've been talking about this for over year, is because I am a victim of its circumstance. I've just be trying to tell you folks that you are not covered no matter how safe your grow is, or how good you think your homeowners policy is. Start by reading the fine print clauses in your current policies.
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I understand your point well.
It was wrong for them to deny you insurance or a claim.
But as someone currently fighting an insurance company I will tell you it doesn't change much anyway.
They will always find a way to weasel out of paying or stretch the whole thing out as long as possible so it's painful in more ways.
But by using the logic that lights being installed voids insurance possibilities than perhaps they should go after people selling lights or put rules in at that level first. Ya not likely.
Just like the allard decision all those claims of mold Fire and b and e are unfounded and any decent lawyer would salivate at the possibilities here.
 
TheRealDman

TheRealDman

Well-Known Member
torontoke said:
I understand your point well.
It was wrong for them to deny you insurance or a claim.
But as someone currently fighting an insurance company I will tell you it doesn't change much anyway.
They will always find a way to weasel out of paying or stretch the whole thing out as long as possible so it's painful in more ways.
But by using the logic that lights being installed voids insurance possibilities than perhaps they should go after people selling lights or put rules in at that level first. Ya not likely.
Just like the allard decision all those claims of mold Fire and b and e are unfounded and any decent lawyer would salivate at the possibilities here.
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Insurance companies are as bad as LP's....scammers only in it for the $$$$$!
 
G

Gmack420

Well-Known Member
torontomeds said:
The thing about that plant count calculator, is we all can agree that it is very flawed.
Someone said in this thread said they need 18 grams a day, so lets run some math.

18 Grams Per day x 365 days = 6570 divided by 448 Grams in a # = 14.6 pounds per year
2 x 600w = 3#'s per run x 5 runs in a year = 15#

(for added fun) lets say its 120 a month to run a 1200 hydroponic system x that by 12 months = 1440 divided by 15# = 96$ per pound ( for electrical cost.) Once you add in nutes and other BS (not including start up cost) you can probably get it to about 110$ per pound


We all know that no limit was set on wattage or floor space in the MMAR, and we know that you can get 1-2 pounds a light and we also know you can get 2 - 3 pounds per plant in the right set up. If we want to have a real discussion then it should be about floor space x wattage because plant count is to vague. I can grow you 14 pounds a year in a tent with 2 600 watt lights and like 4-8 plants per light, but I can also fill the same space up with 50 plants in rockwool and achieve the same yield, I can also take the same 50 plants and grow 100 Pounds in a massive indoor grow room so plant count is sort of moot. Anyways I am sure you craft guys out here will make it work.
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I honestly don't think there should be limits. As long as you're not selling it you should be allowed to grow what YOU decide YOU need. Big plants small ones. Indica sativa indoor outdoor who cares?
 
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