GroErr Grows...

BobCajun said:

Far Red end of day could certainly speed things up, at least in theory. What would happen if you just kept them going for longer though? Have you tried it? Maybe they'll keep piling up calyxes. You invested all that time, why rush to chop? Also, if the far red works like it's reputed to, you should be able to run 14/10 and it would be like 12/12 without FR. Those plants are ripening way too fast to get enough bulk to make all the invested time up to that point worth it, at least that's what I suspect is happening. Fast ripening is only an advantage outdoors, or if you need weed as soon as humanly possible, which is unlikely.

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As I mentioned I go for the quality over quantity so I just pull them when they're ready, not concerned about wringing out every last gram. I don't really check trichs other than if they show up in my pics, I look at the buds but also the overall ripeness of the plant. There's a point at which a plant is ready to harvest, that's when I harvest, regardless of how long it took to get there. if you go back a few months I had a run at 12.5/11.5 with low wattage that took forever to finish, one went close to 100 days to finish, the thought process goes both ways, short or long running. I leave them until they're done so If a shorter run means losing a few grams here & there I'm good with that, as long as the quality is there Leaving them beyond their ideal ripeness screws with potency (THC degrading), effects and possibly flavours imo.

Essentially the only thing that changes leaving them longer or taking longer for them to finish is some potential gains in weight. I used to grow like that outdoor/guerilla so I know that thought process, it just doesn't fit into my current hobby/meds/quality focus.
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You could also argue that if you find an environment, tech, or process, that finishes the plants properly in a shorter period of time, you can get more runs in over the course of a year. So the argument of leaving them longer doesn't really gain much other than over-ripened and likely worse quality end product, lots of it

Pulled a tester off that Panama P6 that's looking done, it's done, I'm done

Pleasantly surprised, a little harsh with a 24 hr dry but it does the trick. Nice old school sativa head/trippy buzz. Caught myself watching the clouds go by, real slow like - lol

Day 68 for the Panama's, Day 9 (added 3 days since they were at 14/10 for 7 days). Gave the P6 Panama on the left enough water to pull it on Sunday, definitely ready. The P4 Panama has another week or so in her, keeps getting heavier. Threw a cup in there for some perspective on the buds on those Panama's

The 4x 3 gal at Day 9 are 1x Blue Ripper x Blue Dream front-right, 1x Fireballs front-left. Behind them are 2x Skunk #1 females, the only females that made it through the culls. Nothing special, the one back left might be alright. The one male (of 5) I pulled is the one that'll go on to breed from this bunch, that's turning into a nice plant as it flowers.



Cheers

GroErr said:

Pulled a tester off that Panama P6 that's looking done, it's done, I'm done

Pleasantly surprised, a little harsh with a 24 hr dry but it does the trick. Nice old school sativa head/trippy buzz. Caught myself watching the clouds go by, real slow like - lol

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"it's done, I'm done". Nice! Enjoy bro.

GroErr said:

As I mentioned I go for the quality over quantity so I just pull them when they're ready, not concerned about wringing out every last gram. I don't really check trichs other than if they show up in my pics, I look at the buds but also the overall ripeness of the plant. There's a point at which a plant is ready to harvest, that's when I harvest, regardless of how long it took to get there. if you go back a few months I had a run at 12.5/11.5 with low wattage that took forever to finish, one went close to 100 days to finish, the thought process goes both ways, short or long running. I leave them until they're done so If a shorter run means losing a few grams here & there I'm good with that, as long as the quality is there Leaving them beyond their ideal ripeness screws with potency (THC degrading), effects and possibly flavours imo.

Essentially the only thing that changes leaving them longer or taking longer for them to finish is some potential gains in weight. I used to grow like that outdoor/guerilla so I know that thought process, it just doesn't fit into my current hobby/meds/quality focus.
.
You could also argue that if you find an environment, tech, or process, that finishes the plants properly in a shorter period of time, you can get more runs in over the course of a year. So the argument of leaving them longer doesn't really gain much other than over-ripened and likely worse quality end product, lots of it

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I suppose that makes sense. If you're growing for yourself then small buds aren't a problem. At least you appear to have proven that EOD far red with a 12/12 cycle ripens plants as if they were in a 12/14 cycle. Because as I mentioned, my plants are nowhere near done at 8 weeks under normal LED.

BobCajun said:

I suppose that makes sense. If you're growing for yourself then small buds aren't a problem.

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WTF I Must Be In The Wrong Thread

Seriously....I have popped the same breed repeatedly, over the years, and I have
some bad news for Bob....

If you think that you can grow "that LA Con from DNA", again, because you can buy
a pack of LA Con from DNA, then you are very likely mistaken. Yes, it is possible,
but, at bare minimum you will have to pop a large number of beans and hunt about....
...and this assumes that the very same parents were maintained.

You seem to be trying to run down one of the tidiest grows I have ever seen.

Wow!

Kitchen Clean!

BobCajun said:

I suppose that makes sense. If you're growing for yourself then small buds aren't a problem. At least you appear to have proven that EOD far red with a 12/12 cycle ripens plants as if they were in a 12/14 cycle. Because as I mentioned, my plants are nowhere near done at 8 weeks under normal LED.

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Yeah I haven't concluded anything but there seem to be a few factors affecting finish times from observations in the last few rounds. I'm making a small adjustment this round to see how much the 660nm at lights on affect maturation rates compared to the shorter 11.5/12.5 cycle. Last round I noticed a difference in finish times and very early maturation but I had 2 variables (down to 11.5/12.5 from 12/12 PLUS leaving the 660nm's on for the first 2 hours), brining it down to one variable this round to see how much effect the 660nm's had on the finish times.

Last round I made a newbie mistake in introducing 2 variables so now I'm going back to bring it down to one variable and gage the difference. Last round I ran 11.5/12.5 for the main lights but also extended the 660nm at lights on for the first 2 hours (vs. 10 minutes prior to lights on, then off when the main lights come on). The plants closest to the 660nm board clearly and noticeably matured earlier, the hairs matured much quicker and earlier than the others, I could see it from one side of the plant to the other, it was that noticeable.

So this round I left the main lights at 11.5/12.5 and put the 660nm initiators back to 10 minutes before lights on, off when the main lights come on (2 minute overlap to account for any drift on the timers). 730nm at the end of the cycle for 10 minutes after lights off hasn't changed. I have one early finishing clone of my Blue Ripper x Blue Dream in there to give me a read.

While we're on subject, some observations on finishing times (not conclusions yet, have to go back and replicate these) from what I've seen over the last several rounds with COBs.

Lower w/sq./ft., below 30w, seems to extend the cycle. One of the first rounds with my COBs I was running an average of 25w/sq./ft. (660nm/730nm initiators at 10 minutes before/after the main lights). That was the longest round, extended some of my known phenos as long as an extra 2 weeks. I pulled some great weight but at a cost of up to 20% extension to finish times. 2 weeks per round in a year means getting an extra cycle in which for me doesn't add up as I got ~10% weight gain but had to spend 20% more time finishing them. In this scenario, the initiators didn't seem to have much effect on finishing times. The low w/sq./ft. environment seemed to override the effects of the initiators. My suggestion here is run 30w/sq./ft. or above with COBs or you may see extended finish times.

Shorter light cycles seem to speed up finish times with a small (5-10%) hit on yield/weight. I think this is pretty well known and there's been a significant difference in finish times between 12.5/11.5 to 11.5/12.5. I'll go back to 12.5/11.5 at some point with some known clones and validate this. This can be good or bad depending on your preference (weight vs. finish times vs. power savings).

Adding 660nm for extended periods during the cycle seems to have an effect on maturation rates and finish times. There was a clear difference in how fast the hairs turned on a couple of phenos I had directly in from of the 660nm board running for the first 2 hours of the cycle. Like I mentioned earlier, I could see differences from one side of the plant to the other for the one's that were sitting directly in front of the 660nm board. Will be watching the Blue Ripper x Blue Dream this round to see if there are any noticeable differences in maturation rate dropping the 660nm's back to 10 minutes before lights on.

That's all I got for now...

The Dawg said:

WTF I Must Be In The Wrong Thread

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Lol, yeah thought I'd be civil and let that go, I don't need validation on how big my dick is

Javadog said:

Seriously....I have popped the same breed repeatedly, over the years, and I have
some bad news for Bob....

If you think that you can grow "that LA Con from DNA", again, because you can buy
a pack of LA Con from DNA, then you are very likely mistaken. Yes, it is possible,
but, at bare minimum you will have to pop a large number of beans and hunt about....
...and this assumes that the very same parents were maintained.

You seem to be trying to run down one of the tidiest grows I have ever seen.

Wow!

Kitchen Clean!

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Cheers and no worries JD, no butt hurt here. If you or @The Dawg said something like that I'd pay attention but I always consider the source when responding

I haven't read anything about red before lights on having much effect on plants, though blue seemed to help slightly, they theorized it was due to blue light causing opening of stomata. Probably the extra red light just increased photosynthesis somewhat while on. There wouldn't really be much effect from morning red, since all it does aside from photosynthesis is to convert phytochrome to the far red absorbing type, which it all is within the first 2 hours of darkness anyway.

However, eod red has the effect of keeping plants short and with lots of side branching. The eod far red has the opposite effect, stem elongation and suppression of branching. Personally, I get all the stretch I can deal with just with the normal LEDs. Can't imagine how bad it would be with eod far red. DJ Short doesn't refer to Blueberry as a "stretch Indica" for nothing. I would use eod red to keep them down but it's inconvenient to put extra lights in there. Maybe eventually though.

Definitely an Interesting Thread

That grow room is a wet dream, ive been feeling lonely running HPS, so many running Cobs,...What is there for light in that space?

Underground Scientist said:

That grow room is a wet dream, ive been feeling lonely running HPS, so many running Cobs,...What is there for light in that space?

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Hey thanks, I now have a total of 800w available, mostly Cree 3590's (600w), and recently added another 200w of Citizen 90cri. They're a bunch of bars, 3x 100w Tasty LED's, 2x 150w Tasty LED's, and the 200w Citizen. The 150's and the 200 are dimmable, the individual bars make it really flexible to run whatever wattage I need at the time. Like right now the room is only about 2/3 full so I'm running about 500w between 4 bars to cover off what's there at about 30w.sq. ft. Total usable space when the room is full is up to 3.5 x 8'.

GroErr said:

Hey thanks, I now have a total of 800w available, mostly Cree 3590's (600w), and recently added another 200w of Citizen 90cri. They're a bunch of bars, 3x 100w Tasty LED's, 2x 150w Tasty LED's, and the 200w Citizen. The 150's and the 200 are dimmable, the individual bars make it really flexible to run whatever wattage I need at the time. Like right now the room is only about 2/3 full so I'm running about 500w between 4 bars to cover off what's there at about 30w.sq. ft. Total usable space when the room is full is up to 3.5 x 8'.

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I'm probably over lighting the shit out of mine. 1000w HPS dimmed to 750 moving 6" on a mover, and 2 - 102w Mars LED supplemental in a 3'x5':

Underground Scientist said:

I'm probably over lighting the shit out of mine. 1000w HPS dimmed to 750 moving 6" on a mover, and 2 - 102w Mars LED supplemental in a 3'x5':

View attachment 3954313

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Wow that is a lot of light for the space, nice plants through, looks like it's rocking. The efficiency of the COBs allow you to run at much lower wattage, some bucks involved to get in but the efficiency and hassles of dealing with heat are worth it to me, the quality is outstanding too.

GroErr said:

Wow that is a lot of light for the space, nice plants through, looks like it's rocking. The efficiency of the COBs allow you to run at much lower wattage, some bucks involved to get in but the efficiency and hassles of dealing with heat are worth it to me, the quality is outstanding too.

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Yeah, I geared up going in, and my 600 w ballast gave me issues, running 750w on my 1000w ballast ever since with no issues. First plant is a little guy, with a botched top job and 3 brothers. Growing a donkey dick cola, dense stuff, maybe a week or two left:

I'm in a basement, Bloom Box runs about 76 - 86 degrees, 40% RH.

BobCajun said:

I haven't read anything about red before lights on having much effect on plants, though blue seemed to help slightly, they theorized it was due to blue light causing opening of stomata. Probably the extra red light just increased photosynthesis somewhat while on. There wouldn't really be much effect from morning red, since all it does aside from photosynthesis is to convert phytochrome to the far red absorbing type, which it all is within the first 2 hours of darkness anyway.

However, eod red has the effect of keeping plants short and with lots of side branching. The eod far red has the opposite effect, stem elongation and suppression of branching. Personally, I get all the stretch I can deal with just with the normal LEDs. Can't imagine how bad it would be with eod far red. DJ Short doesn't refer to Blueberry as a "stretch Indica" for nothing. I would use eod red to keep them down but it's inconvenient to put extra lights in there. Maybe eventually though.

Click to expand...

Yeah the idea of giving them 10 minutes of red (660nm to be specific) at the beginning of the cycle is similar to giving them far red (730nm) at the end to trigger a faster transition from Pfr>pr and vice versa. The idea is to transition the plants from dark to light, and light to dark faster than the supposed 2 hours or so they take to transition on their own. In theory this effectively extends both your light period and dark period.

As far as stretch, I believe there's a greater effect overriding Pfr/pr effects by having a greater difference between veg and flowering spectrum. I've seen the effects switching flowering lights and saw a noticeable difference in stretch even when switching from 3100k CMH to 3500k COBs in the flower room. Much less stretch with the 3500k COBs in comparison to the 3100k CMH. That has to do with the difference in Kelvin (colour) between your veg and flowering lights. The greater the difference, the greater the stretch.

There's another factor affecting stretch you can use to either decrease or increase stretch and that's dark period/light period temps or the difference between the two states. I ran a couple of rounds last summer using negative DIF, meaning dark period temps the same or higher than light period temps and noticed significantly less stretch as my temps during the dark period got closer to or surpassed light period temps. You can use this to your advantage whether you want to increase or decrease stretch by adjusting the environment to suit your needs. e.g. If you wanted less stretch run the first couple of weeks at negative DIF, then go back to normal cooler dark period temps than light period temps, or vice versa to increase stretch.

GroErr said:

Yeah the idea of giving them 10 minutes of red (660nm to be specific) at the beginning of the cycle is similar to giving them far red (730nm) at the end to trigger a faster transition from Pfr>pr and vice versa. The idea is to transition the plants from dark to light, and light to dark faster than the supposed 2 hours or so they take to transition on their own. In theory this effectively extends both your light period and dark period.

As far as stretch, I believe there's a greater effect overriding Pfr/pr effects by having a greater difference between veg and flowering spectrum. I've seen the effects switching flowering lights and saw a noticeable difference in stretch even when switching from 3100k CMH to 3500k COBs in the flower room. Much less stretch with the 3500k COBs in comparison to the 3100k CMH. That has to do with the difference in Kelvin (colour) between your veg and flowering lights. The greater the difference, the greater the stretch.

There's another factor affecting stretch you can use to either decrease or increase stretch and that's dark period/light period temps or the difference between the two states. I ran a couple of rounds last summer using negative DIF, meaning dark period temps the same or higher than light period temps and noticed significantly less stretch as my temps during the dark period got closer to or surpassed light period temps. You can use this to your advantage whether you want to increase or decrease stretch by adjusting the environment to suit your needs. e.g. If you wanted less stretch run the first couple of weeks at negative DIF, then go back to normal cooler dark period temps than light period temps, or vice versa to increase stretch.

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I quick dried a small 8 week Blue Pyramid bud, in a microwave, to try it again and it wasn't strong at all. I hope it potents up a lot in the next 2 weeks. Maybe that one pheno was weak, I don't know. You said in one post that everybody likes the Blue Pyramid. So nobody complained of low potency? It also seemed pretty harsh. Did anybody say it was harsh?