ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Have you?
Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL
- Thread starter OneHitDone
- Start date
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
That's what I'm talking about.
Why are we just not seeing cobs supporting nugs that large?
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
lol No I have not used a DE yet but it is looking like I most likely will be in the near future.
Everyone is claiming "hps killer" so I was just hoping to get some baseline as to what they are basing their comparisons on
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I'm still working on my head to head, but I promise epicness.
cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
I personally feel that a lot of people are too concerned with saving watts and "efficiency" that they forget or just don't know how much light intensity is needed to grow quality sizable nugs. COB's don't have a whole lot of light density at distance unless they are run hard or grouped closely together. One way is much less efficient and the other way costs a boat load up front. I would rather smash a harvest than save a few bucks on my energy and cooling bill every month... That's just me.
jijiandfarmgang
Well-Known Member
I've been rocking Gavitas for a few years now (since before they were cool.) I'm happy with them.
I would like to try a CXB3590 setup. I'm always so friggin busy, plus I have a hard time making up my mind on how large to go, and how to customize.
My personal opinion is that Gavita is geared towards commercial greenhouses. It just so happens that this works pretty well for indoor growers. And it works kind of okay (better than most) for Tent growers.
Homebrew CXB3590 setups aren't going to take over commercial greenhouses by storm. But I have seen some pretty impressive tent grows.
So where does that leave the indoor grower that has moved past the closet/grow tent?
- Jiji
I would like to try a CXB3590 setup. I'm always so friggin busy, plus I have a hard time making up my mind on how large to go, and how to customize.
My personal opinion is that Gavita is geared towards commercial greenhouses. It just so happens that this works pretty well for indoor growers. And it works kind of okay (better than most) for Tent growers.
Homebrew CXB3590 setups aren't going to take over commercial greenhouses by storm. But I have seen some pretty impressive tent grows.
So where does that leave the indoor grower that has moved past the closet/grow tent?
- Jiji
alesh
Well-Known Member
Temperature does wonders. These buds are enormous but you gotta feel LED grown buds. They're more dense and resinous and much lesser buds weigh a lot. This is very hard to capture in photos.
*My comparison is against 600W HPS in 1x1m*
Sxott
Well-Known Member
I have used HPS for years. My 1250 PPFD Build just beat out my HPS with 80% of the power and by quite a bit. There wa also no popcorn because every angle was lit up. It was GG4. A strain Im very familiar with now. I dont grow big bud type strains because they tend to not be nearly as dank. Biggest strain I have accepted is Chem4. Lets see some macros of them big ass buds?
I have not attempted to grow 4+ foot plants under my led builds yet but my light meter is showing much higher numbers on the canopy compared to my 1000 watt Hort eye in an adjustawing.
What alesh is saying about the density is something I thought "LED guys" was bullshitting about before I started converting but, Its true. When my gg4 dried, it was still very heavy.
Check out this guys grows. He is dropping lots of frosty weight in a small place:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/napalmds-second-diy-cxa3070-scrog-grow.874816/page-2
I have not attempted to grow 4+ foot plants under my led builds yet but my light meter is showing much higher numbers on the canopy compared to my 1000 watt Hort eye in an adjustawing.
What alesh is saying about the density is something I thought "LED guys" was bullshitting about before I started converting but, Its true. When my gg4 dried, it was still very heavy.
Check out this guys grows. He is dropping lots of frosty weight in a small place:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/napalmds-second-diy-cxa3070-scrog-grow.874816/page-2
KarmaPaymentPlan
Well-Known Member
That's awesome i can't believe people are still denying led any satisfaction of being a kick ass light source
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
The premise of this whole topic is flawed.
How many cob guys have ran DE...
The same as DE who have run cobs probably or less. If it can't go the other way...it has no validity.
A comparison is only valid if it is the same Gardner doing it.
Joe blow yields 3lb with his hps, while jack meioff pulls 2 under his led unit.
How the duck is that a comparison???
The guy yielding 3 with hps will do the same or better with less wattage and top LED's. We all know how much light is being put out by each unit...~400from the DE bulb at 1000w(then you need to get it to the plants)
And around 320 with a 600w 3590 setup, with far less penalties getting that light to the canopy.
To match a gavita cranked up to 1200w you need and extra bar of 3590s([email protected] total)
There is not secrets to this...just need someone to sack up and do it.
How many cob guys have ran DE...
The same as DE who have run cobs probably or less. If it can't go the other way...it has no validity.
A comparison is only valid if it is the same Gardner doing it.
Joe blow yields 3lb with his hps, while jack meioff pulls 2 under his led unit.
How the duck is that a comparison???
The guy yielding 3 with hps will do the same or better with less wattage and top LED's. We all know how much light is being put out by each unit...~400from the DE bulb at 1000w(then you need to get it to the plants)
And around 320 with a 600w 3590 setup, with far less penalties getting that light to the canopy.
To match a gavita cranked up to 1200w you need and extra bar of 3590s([email protected] total)
There is not secrets to this...just need someone to sack up and do it.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It's a new tech, so peeps are still trying to figure out how to best utilize it.
How long did it take growers to maximize their yield with HPS? It took a long time, many years in fact, because of the learning curve of dealing with so much excess heat.
If you make just a little effort to find some good pics on led threads- you will. Excellent product is already being grown with COB tech... or I wouldn't be here right now, talking about it.
Your point about getting big harvest numbers being more important than efficiency is only true as long as the crop's cash value is so high it can cover the excess expense... so it's true now but it will not always be.
What if someone ran a COB LED panel that did NOT attempt to match HPS performance with drastically less watts, but used the same watts and took the performance improvement as more and better light instead?
Watch this space...
cdgmoney250
Well-Known Member
Assuming we are talking about cannabis... Efficiency definitely takes a back seat to total yield. I live in Colorado and work at a grow store. People (dispensaries and not-so-legit operations) are loading up warehouses with DE fixtures or standard HPS setups. If they were that concerned with Efficiency and Cooling they would opt for LED (if there were a viable option). But instead people are loading up grows with hundreds and thousands of watts, because they all know in the end that their "crop" is going to be worth way more than their utility bill.
COB setups make a ton of sense for the tent/closet grower who could gain a lot from having a more efficient light. But imagine someone trying to bomb out 20'x30' with COB's... Let alone CXB3590. Most people tend to look past the initial cost of these builds for one reason or another. It would cost a staggering amount of money to setup a space that large lining the ceiling with LED's, where as the inefficient dinosaur lights cost way less, cover a large footprint and are proven to perform.
With all that said, I will be covering a 4'x12' with about 3000 watts of Vero 29. The spectrum, output and distribution of light should crush HPS though Watt for Watt.
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
How the duck indeed.
I agree strenuously.
I have asked myself this question a lot lately, it seems like the community has sort of framed the question incorrectly.
I want to see 400W HPS vs 400W COB in a 4x4 tent, for my own purposes of scale. I may try to do that experiment within the year. I have no doubt what the result will be. I have high-bin CXB3590's waiting for me to get all the other parts and tools together. They stare at me, impatiently.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I plan to put your assertion about LED not being ready for commercial use to the test, because I respectfully disagree- and I'm building the rig to prove it one way or the other.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Wow... I was warned off of using that much PPfD, so I ended up choosing a setup that runs 824 PPfD. Do you think I made a mistake? I was/am trying to get high intensity numbers...
My original target was 1250PPfD.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
...and you're looking at him. Due to my setup not being compatible with current DE HPS tech, I'm using SE lamps instead; but the head to head testing has already covered HPS and 860W CDM and will include 315W LEC on the way to a CXB3590 setup with the same watts.
The lights will change, but the environment, growing trellis, style, plant sizes, nutes, and even phenos (I'm clone only for exactly this reason) will NOT.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
You just contradicted yourself, lol You don't think it's viable- but you're going to try it.
Well... me too. However, having been down this road before, I know better than to treat COB LED like HID lighting. It's the specific design of COB applications that will decide how this goes.
That calculation only holds as long as weed keeps selling for thousands a pound. The minute it doesn't, Mr. Cover the ceiling in HID and run an acre of coco will be out of business.
That minute is coming, it will be here before you know it. Once it arrives, millions of lamps will be uncompetitive junk- and so will the warehouses they're hanging in.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It seems the same question occurred to a lot of us at about the same time. Methinks it's not a coincidence, that our collective intuition is telling us something about the potential of this new lighting.
COB need not cost more er square foot to install at commercial scale than HID. Another assertion I intend to prove with testing.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
That was the intent of the initial question, I was hoping to hear from someone that has used both DE HPS and COB.
This discussion was not supposed to include SE Mogul based HPS. That is OLD Tech.
Let's talk 2015, what is hot on the market now.
I was hoping to get some real world observations of growing plants in different situations under each.
We know COB can deliver intensity at the canopy for SCROG etc. What if a grower grows multi-toped bushes or just the 3-4ft tall plants in 5 gallon cans that are common in my area. How is the bud development down lower in the canopy on those setups.
I would agree that cob is not ready for commercial use specifically on one issue - distribution/availability.
Someone needs to start a cob supply warehouse!
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
Light is light. There is no difference between hps and led photons. The understanding needs to be about light...not lights.
Cobs and high powered LED's need to be treated almost identical to hps. Sure a small little cab with 150w will need to be special and spread. But when you put 800ppf or more over a space say good by to the classic low clearance led ways. 1000umols is a 1000umols and will penetrate the fuck out of a canopy just as wellas a 1000hps or more. You will get higher par readings from the same distance with LED's all day long...meaning equal or better penetration. And even if put cob to cob will still be a bigger LES than a hps bulb...so more possible coverage even if not spread at all. Let alone once you start to spread and not sacrifice intensity. After all intensity is area density. You can spread all over hell within the area...as long as you keep that area the focus...intensity won't change much no matter the spacing/spread.
I hate hearing that scrog needs less intensity...false. Needs just as much or more. It's more foliage and growth...meaning higher photon needs to max every exposed site.
Yet to see anyone complaining when they put the correct intensity(800-1000umols).
Cobs and high powered LED's need to be treated almost identical to hps. Sure a small little cab with 150w will need to be special and spread. But when you put 800ppf or more over a space say good by to the classic low clearance led ways. 1000umols is a 1000umols and will penetrate the fuck out of a canopy just as wellas a 1000hps or more. You will get higher par readings from the same distance with LED's all day long...meaning equal or better penetration. And even if put cob to cob will still be a bigger LES than a hps bulb...so more possible coverage even if not spread at all. Let alone once you start to spread and not sacrifice intensity. After all intensity is area density. You can spread all over hell within the area...as long as you keep that area the focus...intensity won't change much no matter the spacing/spread.
I hate hearing that scrog needs less intensity...false. Needs just as much or more. It's more foliage and growth...meaning higher photon needs to max every exposed site.
Yet to see anyone complaining when they put the correct intensity(800-1000umols).