Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL

Have any of you DIY COB Growers have actually finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 29.1%

  • No

    Votes: 78 70.9%
  • Total voters
    110
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
To put this into a better view.
If gavita came out with a 600w putting out 1600ppf people would be all over it and be replacing 1000w gravitas left and right.

But because this is coming from an led...people don't understand what they are getting/being offered.
Well in the end...plants want the photons. What ever gives the most with the least input is what everyone wants. Tech that does it is irrelevant in reality. If they want the best...they will find it and get it at whatever cost. Plenty of margin left in the game like Ty referenced.
 
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cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You just contradicted yourself, lol You don't think it's viable- but you're going to try it.

Well... me too. However, having been down this road before, I know better than to treat COB LED like HID lighting. It's the specific design of COB applications that will decide how this goes.

That calculation only holds as long as weed keeps selling for thousands a pound. The minute it doesn't, Mr. Cover the ceiling in HID and run an acre of coco will be out of business.

That minute is coming, it will be here before you know it. Once it arrives, millions of lamps will be uncompetitive junk- and so will the warehouses they're hanging in.
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How so? I mentioned I prefer yield over efficiency. And I was referring to products that could be acquired at a retail location or online. I don't think DIY large scale is a viable option.

I'm willing to cover about 50 sq ft with a certain wattage of COB's that will be similar to most HID setups in terms of power consumption. The difference being the light intensity and distribution should far out yield most HID setups of similar wattage.
(By the way I'm limited to 7' ceilings)
If I had 12' ceilings I wouldn't expect to achieve the same results as someone who could run DE as they are supposed to be run.

Keep holding your breath. Until cannabis becomes cheaper than tomatoes, I'm going to live in the now and understand that the crop being harvested is worth the expense of growing it, substantially.
 
alesh

alesh

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
How so? I mentioned I prefer yield over efficiency. And I was referring to products that could be acquired at a retail location or online. I don't think DIY large scale is a viable option.

I'm willing to cover about 50 sq ft with a certain wattage of COB's that will be similar to most HID setups in terms of power consumption. The difference being the light intensity and distribution should far out yield most HID setups of similar wattage.
(By the way I'm limited to 7' ceilings)
If I had 12' ceilings I wouldn't expect to achieve the same results as someone who could run DE as they are supposed to be run.

Keep holding your breath. Until cannabis becomes cheaper than tomatoes, I'm going to live in the now and understand that the crop being harvested is worth the expense of growing it, substantially.
Click to expand...
You can't expect dramatic increased yield when you're boosting already high intensity. 2x intensity != 2x yield
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
How so? I mentioned I prefer yield over efficiency. And I was referring to products that could be acquired at a retail location or online. I don't think DIY large scale is a viable option.

I'm willing to cover about 50 sq ft with a certain wattage of COB's that will be similar to most HID setups in terms of power consumption. The difference being the light intensity and distribution should far out yield most HID setups of similar wattage.
Click to expand...
This is a flawed way of looking at it. You should be looking to setup the space with a similar photon density at the canopy as your current HID setup. There is diminishing and even deteriorating results with levels higher than 1500 umol/M^2/s.... If you're already at that point with HID's there is little sense in adding more light by using cobs.... It makes more sense to decrease your power consumption, or increase the amount of available space.
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
We need par readings comparing the "best" COB setup vs a similar wattage DE at ranging distances to put this debate to rest.

alesh said:
You can't expect dramatic increased yield when you're boosting already high intensity. 2x intensity != 2x yield
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Sure I can. The PAR readings don't lie guys. In a 4x4 area there might be 2-3sq ft of 900-1000 umol( 600W Horti HPS) at a distance where temps are ok(22"). The Par drops off so much, using the reflectors I have in my grow space, towards the outside of the 4x4 space. I'm only getting about 200-300 par on the outer edges of my space 22" below the reflector. There is probably close to 10 sq ft under each of my 600W (4x4) that never receives more than 500 umol. If I'm able to give the entire canopy, every square inch, at least 850-950 umol's then I could see increasing my yield per plant by close to 50% at least 25% minimum.
 
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cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
bicit said:
This is a flawed way of looking at it. You should be looking to setup the space with a similar photon density at the canopy as your current HID setup. There is diminishing and even deteriorating results with levels higher than 1500 umol/M^2/s.... If you're already at that point with HID's there is little sense in adding more light by using cobs.... It makes more sense to decrease your power consumption, or increase the amount of available space.
Click to expand...
Most HID setups don't produce uniform/even light density over the whole foot print. It's not about exceeding or even meeting 1500 umol. It's about reaching 1000 umol over the ENTIRE canopy. It's about redistributing that intensity so all plants are illuminated equally. Whether it be a ceiling full of COB's or 315 Lec's it's about even ppfd to the canopy.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
Most HID setups don't produce uniform/even light density over the whole foot print. It's not about exceeding or even meeting 1500 umol. It's about reaching 1000 umol over the ENTIRE canopy. It's about redistributing that intensity so all plants are illuminated equally. Whether it be a ceiling full of COB's or 315 Lec's it's about even ppfd to the canopy.
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This is true and there isn't a single hid that can do that either. You have a better chance of getting a really even coverage with well spaced cobs than any other method. True in a multiple light room you can get a great coverage with enough overlap but in an area to small for multiple hid fixtures spread out leds can't be beat.
 
BOBBY_G

BOBBY_G

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
We need par readings comparing the "best" COB setup vs a similar wattage DE at ranging distances to put this debate to rest.
Click to expand...
not even a fair fight- put the same cob wattage in the same area and not only will you have higher ppf, you will have more uniform ppfd

the only people who are non-beleivers in cobs superiority to hps are people that try to cheap out and get by with half the watts or less

watt for watt, more par light = more weight
lower temps = higher quality
more even distribution = not hot spots and less popcorn as well

cob wins in every single area except capital cost (whereas if you were to buy 1000W of diy cob vs a HQ 1000W HPS, the cob would pay for itself in increased yields in no more than 2 cycles (and keep on giving, for a long ass time)
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
not even a fair fight- put the same cob wattage in the same area and not only will you have higher ppf, you will have more uniform ppfd

the only people who are non-beleivers in cobs superiority to hps are people that try to cheap out and get by with half the watts or less

watt for watt, more par light = more weight
lower temps = higher quality
more even distribution = not hot spots and less popcorn as well

cob wins in every single area except capital cost (whereas if you were to buy 1000W of diy cob vs a HQ 1000W HPS, the cob would pay for itself in increased yields in no more than 2 cycles (and keep on giving, for a long ass time)
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Wait a minute.... I thought the key was less wattage of cobs for higher photon counts than HPS? You said people cheap out and get half the watts or less, I thought that was what is supposed to be done? Then you said something about 1000 watts of cob vs 1000 watts of HPS? Im a little confused here, it is 5:50 am, that my be why. Not trying to dis credit you at all, just got a little confused is all.
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
BOBBY_G said:
the only people who are non-beleivers in cobs superiority to hps are people that try to cheap out and get by with half the watts or less
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You are referring to a vast majority of the grow industry. Most people outside of this forum have never heard the term COB before and think of disco lights as led grow lights.

COB's are:

Superior technology.. Absolutely

In mainstream press... Not so much.

When COB fixtures are advertised in Maximum Yield and High Times magazine with proven results, then we will start to see the industry shift away from HID tech, IMO.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
You are referring to a vast majority of the grow industry. Most people outside of this forum have never heard the term COB before and think of disco lights as led grow lights.

COB's are:

Superior technology.. Absolutely

In mainstream press... Not so much.

When COB fixtures are advertised in Maximum Yield and High Times magazine with proven results, then we will start to see the industry shift away from HID tech, IMO.
Click to expand...
When the industry realizes that those who are using COBs are getting ahead, they'll follow suit quickly enough.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
A COB fixture is a lot more expensive though. Even when built myself it was more than twice as expensive "per umol" than my Gavita. In my case the energy savings will take many many years to earn back that price difference and I don't delude myself that I ever will.

Still, it's a hobby and I like growing with COBs a whole lot better. People who see the results are quickly convinced it's worth the extra expense.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
A COB fixture is a lot more expensive though. Even when built myself it was more than twice as expensive "per umol" than my Gavita. In my case the energy savings will take many many years to earn back that price difference and I don't delude myself that I ever will.

Still, it's a hobby and I like growing with COBs a whole lot better. People who see the results are quickly convinced it's worth the extra expense.
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Your ROI changes rapidly as soon as you start actively cooling your grow space. They're as much cooler to operate as they are brighter than HPS- and that attendant savings on HVAC installed capacity and running cost can often be bigger than the direct wattage savings alone.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
Assuming we are talking about cannabis... Efficiency definitely takes a back seat to total yield. I live in Colorado and work at a grow store. People (dispensaries and not-so-legit operations) are loading up warehouses with DE fixtures or standard HPS setups. If they were that concerned with Efficiency and Cooling they would opt for LED (if there were a viable option). But instead people are loading up grows with hundreds and thousands of watts, because they all know in the end that their "crop" is going to be worth way more than their utility bill.
COB setups make a ton of sense for the tent/closet grower who could gain a lot from having a more efficient light. But imagine someone trying to bomb out 20'x30' with COB's... Let alone CXB3590. Most people tend to look past the initial cost of these builds for one reason or another. It would cost a staggering amount of money to setup a space that large lining the ceiling with LED's, where as the inefficient dinosaur lights cost way less, cover a large footprint and are proven to perform.

With all that said, I will be covering a 4'x12' with about 3000 watts of Vero 29. The spectrum, output and distribution of light should crush HPS though Watt for Watt.
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My array will be here this weekend; 4800W of 56%efficient CXB3590, to cover 6x12'. It just might be worth it to cover big spaces with COBs.
 
swagslayer420

swagslayer420

Well-Known Member
I run a Sun System AC/DE 8" with 1000w Ushio 2100umol in a 4x4 and 7 area 51 w90's 3k in another 4x4 haven't got around to doing a side by side. The DE will get the most yield out of the genetics you place under it. The led's will give you better resin production, tch, terps and colors I have grown under area 51 rw150's, xgs 190 and w90's. I like both and will continue to use both, in veg I use a horti 400w, 198 watts of t-5 and 125w cfl. My next light will be a SS CMH 630 3100k.
 
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