"I don't support universal healthcare because we don't have the support in congress.."

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I've heard this exact excuse by Senator, Diane Feinstein, Congresswoman, Linda Sanchez, and my own representative in congress, as well as a few others who make up lower publicly elected positions as to why they do not support a system of universal healthcare

Could this argument be used for any other issue?

"Hey, I don't support civil rights for minorities because we just don't have the numbers in congress right now..."

"Hey, I don't support womens suffrage because there's just not enough support for it at the moment.."


Would the same people who support the US adopting a system of universal healthcare who excuse their Democratic representatives in congress also excuse them for these things as well?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
see actual poll of actual voters in a liberal state with zero margin of error above.
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ColoradoCare was proposed to be funded by a 1/3 increase in payroll tax by employees

You're comparing the failure of Amendment 69 in Colorado with nationwide, medicare for all. Americans support a system of medicare for all because there is no 1/3 increase in their payroll taxes. How goddamn dishonest of you to suggest they're at all comparable. Holy fuck.

I hope people reading along are paying attention to what this slimy fuck just tried to do. He tried to make the claim that people in Colorado, a traditionally progressive state, opposed universal healthcare on the basis that they didn't support it, because they don't want it. In reality, they opposed an increase in their taxes to pay for it. If we enacted a system of universal healthcare, the same kind of tax on poor/middle-class people would not exist to fund it. Which is why nearly 60% of Americans, including half of Republicans, support it.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
i'm a slimy fuck because i pointed out how we voted on this issue. OK, kid.
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..finish the paragraph there, sport.. let me help you.. You're a slimy fuck because:

"He tried to make the claim that people in Colorado, a traditionally progressive state, opposed universal healthcare on the basis that they didn't support it, because they don't want it. In reality, they opposed an increase in their taxes to pay for it. If we enacted a system of universal healthcare, the same kind of tax on poor/middle-class people would not exist to fund it. Which is why nearly 60% of Americans, including half of Republicans, support it."

They didn't oppose it because they didn't want it. They opposed it because it dramatically raised their taxes. A system of universal healthcare like the one proposed by Senator Sanders does not raise their taxes. You filthy, slimy, disgusting, fuck, just tried to compare a system of universal healthcare even I wouldn't support based on the levels of taxation, and right-wing retards call me a communist on a weekly basis based on the system of universal healthcare I support!

I feel dirty for even talking to you
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
..finish the paragraph there, sport.. let me help you.. You're a slimy fuck because:

"He tried to make the claim that people in Colorado, a traditionally progressive state, opposed universal healthcare on the basis that they didn't support it, because they don't want it. In reality, they opposed an increase in their taxes to pay for it. If we enacted a system of universal healthcare, the same kind of tax on poor/middle-class people would not exist to fund it. Which is why nearly 60% of Americans, including half of Republicans, support it."

They didn't oppose it because they didn't want it. They opposed it because it dramatically raised their taxes. A system of universal healthcare like the one proposed by Senator Sanders does not raise their taxes. You filthy, slimy, disgusting, fuck, just tried to compare a system of universal healthcare even I wouldn't support based on the levels of taxation, and right-wing retards call me a communist on a weekly basis based on the system of universal healthcare I support!

I feel dirty for even talking to you
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it's hilarious that you are trying to tell me why my wife and her entire family voted against it. hint: it had zero to do with taxes at all.

i voted for it only because i knew it would lose.

and you still have no idea why.

and you wouldn't support universal healthcare if it meant 2% extra taxes out of your paycheck? LULZ
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
it's hilarious that you are trying to tell me why my wife and her entire family voted against it.
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What are you talking about? I haven't said a thing about your wife or her family.
UncleBuck said:
hint: it had zero to do with taxes at all.

i voted for it only because i knew it would lose.
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How did you know it would lose?
UncleBuck said:
and you wouldn't support universal healthcare if it meant 2% extra taxes out of your paycheck?
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2% isn't enough.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Shit thread, wouldn't read again.

Supposed "liberals" wondering why our Reps don't want to expend political capital on a lost cause.

It seems tokenism is more important to the Sand-tards than actual results.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
What are you talking about? I haven't said a thing about your wife or her family.

How did you know it would lose?

2% isn't enough.
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if you don't know why it failed here and try to say it failed because it "dramatically raised our taxes", you are doomed. there were so many other reasons.

the polls were one sign. the ground game was the other. i had about 8 hillary knocks. 0 trump knocks. and about 2 dozen 'no on 69' knocks, plus mailers.

after you started your rant by saying that we voted it down because it raised our taxes "dramatically", you ended by saying that said tax "isn't enough". you have dementia worse than trump.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Every serious effort at nationalized health care has been a undercut by lack of support by the electorate. @Padawanbater2 is not progressive, he's a hearing challenged utopian. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but he should stay out of political discussion. Fiction is more in his wheelhouse.

Fact: Most voters in most states reject the left's patronizing claim to know better than they do.

I'm still waiting for the next installment in his fantasy about what happens next. Also still want to know when people start taking their clothes off.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
How Nancy Pelosi kept Democrats united behind Obamacare

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/05/03/daily-202-how-nancy-pelosi-kept-democrats-united-behind-obamacare/5909359be9b69b3a72331f18/?utm_term=.441c4db58b49

Pelosi has relentlessly stuck to four talking points that polling and focus groups show are most effective: The GOP plan would raise out-of-pocket costs, hurt people between the ages of 40 and 65, mess up Medicare and strip away coverage from some of the 24 million who got it under the ACA.

She has prodded her members at private meetings to exhibit the same level of message discipline. “If you want to win, you have to have the clarity of message of ‘How this affects YOU’ in the clearest possible way, not ‘How this runs counter to MY vision of public policy,’” she recalled.

Another key element of the California congresswoman’s approach has been steadfastly refusing to offer any kind of alternative plan for how to fix the health system. Obamacare is the law of the land, and she’s diligently put the burden of proof on her opponents to articulate why their replacement would make people better off, rather than trying to defend the status quo. She recognized immediately after the election that this fight would be most winnable if the conversation centered around the flaws in the GOP approach instead of the flaws in the current law.

“Don’t have an alternative until it’s time,” the 77-year-old said. “Keep the focus on what they’re doing. Otherwise you confuse people. The margin of support for our position is like double when you just focus on that. … As a practical manner … if you say, ‘This is what they’re doing and this is what we would do to change the ACA,’ it’s like, ‘What are you telling me that for?!’ I just want to kill this bill. Don’t distract people!”

Oh sure, come out and put it all on the line for universal healthcare right now. Because its the right thing to do. All other alternative ideas should be shouted down. What does Nancy Pelosi know, anyway? Never mind what has actually happened, stick to ideals. Don't listen to alternative ideas. Half a league, half a league, half a league onward. Never mind those guns. Charges like this are the right thing to do.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:

I know you won't bother watching it because you already know everything. But just in case someone else wants to see a different perspective...
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an hour of my life will not be wasted on false assumptions.

Yeah, people vote against universal healthcare, because corruption. Could you please name those corrupt Democratic Party congressmen?

The Democratic party must become more liberal. That's the way to capture votes in the rural south. Sorry man, that's drivel.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
And yet people still want universal healthcare.
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The polls indicate they do, but not by a huge margin and sometimes people don't vote for what they seem to support in polls.

Obamacare polled horribly through much of his term, but popularity has risen. Maybe from people fearing it's loss on pre existing conditions, etc.

Universal health care could catch on, people would like it, but the right will put up resistance yelling socialist and communist. The insurance, hospital and drug companies will scream bloody murder, and 'we the people' will pay for it one way or another.

Tax rates will rise, the rich and corporations and their PAC's will fight tooth and nail against paying for it.

We're not living in a perfect progressive country. Yet.

I have the highest confidence that we'll evolve into that. 20-50 years would be my prediction.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
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