Input needed for experiment comparing COB LED to HPS DE

Should the HPS plants veg under LED then transfer to the HPS tent?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 36.4%
  • No

    Votes: 7 63.6%

  • Total voters
    11

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
If your experiment is to test the COBs vs HPS on flowering, the only thing that makes sense is to veg them under identical conditions. Otherwise, the test is invalid.

Post your parts list for your COB build. I'm probably going to build one for next summer, and it would help me a lot.
I've decided to do COB vs HID rather than COB vs HPS. I think I'm going to choose the 'Better Bush' Tomato strain. It shouldn't grow higher than 5' and completes its cycle in a little over 2 months. For MH I'm probably going with the EyeHortilux Blue lamp. I've only ever vegged with a 8 Bulb HO T5 switching from half power to full power within 2 weeks. I can't be sure how long it'll take for the tomatoes to start flowering until I'm growing them, but would you guys recommend dimming the 1000w EyeHortilux Blue lamp @ 50% or just buy the 600w bulb and run it full power for veg in the HID tent?
 

Maersk

Active Member
If you don't have the capital/equipment to run the same spectrum for hps & led in veg, then the same spectrum for hps & led in flower, you could still do your test full LED for veg/flower, and full HPS for veg/flower - maybe it wont be 100% ideal, but I guess the results would still be valuable to some people.

I think vegging both under LED then switching to hps is pointless, because veg has a big impact on yield.
 

deno

Well-Known Member
Do you have experience growing with HID? How well you do each grow will impact the results. It's probably your biggest variable.
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Just run the 1000W Blue from the start and adjust distance to lamp accordingly
How much area are you planning to cover with the lamp and in what reflector?

This will be interested, can't wait to hear the led boys squealing when your leafs are all leather and twisting with pock marks.
Even though this is a cannabis website, there is more to growing life than that and this will be very telling about light spectrum diet
 

deno

Well-Known Member
This will be interested, can't wait to hear the led boys squealing when your leafs are all leather and twisting with pock marks.
And maybe rightfully so. How many people are out there that suffer from conformation bias, or treat assumptions as fact? The key is to design the experiment correctly to reduce doubt. If the goal is to compare yields of an HID grow to a COB grow, each grow should be done as an experienced grower would do it. Agreed, it will be interesting.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
i just grew a pair of incredible bulk fems recently, one under a 600 watt hps, and the other under 200 watts of quantum boards, run at 43 volts, 4 amps. the plants grew very differently, which i expected. the hps plant, in a 20 gallon tote, stretched in the traditional fashion, gaining about 40% in height, and yielded just over 7 oz dry.
the one under the quantum board only stretched about 10%, but was fuller, and had a very even canopy that i had to do very little to achieve. it was in a 10 gallon tote, yielded just a hair short of 6 oz, and had very little larf, the buds were nice and hard and at least thumb fat all the way down. it also took a full week less than the hps plant.
so as far as i can tell, they're about even. you get a little more with hps, but it takes slightly longer. you get a little less with QB, but you get it quicker. the quality was about even, the hps buds were a little larger, and while they were no means loose or airy, they weren't quite as hard as the QB buds. the equipment cost seems like it would even out pretty soon too. the boards cost twice what the hps cost initially, but will last at least 5 years before they'll need replacement. i use a blue corrected bulb that cost 70 bucks in the hps. i replace it once a year, so after 3 years, it equals the cost of the ballast and cool tube, making it equal to the cost of the QB.
this is all on a small set up, on a larger, commercial scale, i'm pretty sure de hps would still be the way to go, but if you're talking about people growing on a personal level, i think ones as good as the other.
 

deno

Well-Known Member
i just grew a pair of incredible bulk fems recently, one under a 600 watt hps, and the other under 200 watts of quantum boards, run at 43 volts, 4 amps. the plants grew very differently, which i expected. the hps plant, in a 20 gallon tote, stretched in the traditional fashion, gaining about 40% in height, and yielded just over 7 oz dry.
the one under the quantum board only stretched about 10%, but was fuller, and had a very even canopy that i had to do very little to achieve. it was in a 10 gallon tote, yielded just a hair short of 6 oz, and had very little larf, the buds were nice and hard and at least thumb fat all the way down. it also took a full week less than the hps plant.
so as far as i can tell, they're about even. you get a little more with hps, but it takes slightly longer. you get a little less with QB, but you get it quicker. the quality was about even, the hps buds were a little larger, and while they were no means loose or airy, they weren't quite as hard as the QB buds. the equipment cost seems like it would even out pretty soon too. the boards cost twice what the hps cost initially, but will last at least 5 years before they'll need replacement. i use a blue corrected bulb that cost 70 bucks in the hps. i replace it once a year, so after 3 years, it equals the cost of the ballast and cool tube, making it equal to the cost of the QB.
this is all on a small set up, on a larger, commercial scale, i'm pretty sure de hps would still be the way to go, but if you're talking about people growing on a personal level, i think ones as good as the other.
Good to hear your experience, but I think you're jumping to conclusions. I yield significantly higher with 1kw HID, closer to 32oz, somewhat strain dependent of course. Not sure how I'd do with a COB setup, but I'll find out soon enough. Technique is everything when it comes to yield.
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
If you don't have the capital/equipment to run the same spectrum for hps & led in veg, then the same spectrum for hps & led in flower, you could still do your test full LED for veg/flower, and full HPS for veg/flower - maybe it wont be 100% ideal, but I guess the results would still be valuable to some people.

I think vegging both under LED then switching to hps is pointless, because veg has a big impact on yield.
I have enough funds for this to do the experiment pretty much any way I please. The problem is, 3500K 80CRI LED likely trumps HPS as a full cycle light. I have seen a few people online report that full cycle HPS over their tomato plants worked just as well as when they started their tomatoes under MH then switched to HPS once they saw signs of flowering, or in some reports did the full cycle with MH with similar results. Since I can't grow cannabis, I want to grow the most closely related plant. Hops seems to be considered to be that, but it can grow up to 20' in height and has very erratic growth meaning it would likely grow outside of the 4'x4' footprint I'm looking to test, and I don't want to train the plants for the experiment.

Do you have experience growing with HID? How well you do each grow will impact the results. It's probably your biggest variable.
I've flowered with HPS, so yes. I have only ever vegged with a 4'x2' 8-Tube T5 light. I've got a few successful grows under my belt but I decided to not document them online due to certain circumstances. I'm a relatively experienced grower, but not an expert by any means. I'm probably going to throw my T5 light in my 4'x4' Gorilla Grow Tent and do a run of tomatoes just so I've got some experience growing them before building out the LED fixtures and buying the HID components for the experiment.

Everyone please feel free to chime in with criticism or any ways you think we can make this experiment a valid and credible one. If this is done properly, the community could have a lot of their questions answered regarding these two controversial lighting systems. I'm willing to invest in this.
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
I have enough funds for this to do the experiment pretty much any way I please. The problem is, 3500K 80CRI LED likely trumps HPS as a full cycle light. I have seen a few people online report that full cycle HPS over their tomato plants worked just as well as when they started their tomatoes under MH then switched to HPS once they saw signs of flowering, or in some reports did the full cycle with MH with similar results. Since I can't grow cannabis, I want to grow the most closely related plant. Hops seems to be considered to be that, but it can grow up to 20' in height and has very erratic growth meaning it would likely grow outside of the 4'x4' footprint I'm looking to test, and I don't want to train the plants for the experiment.


I've flowered with HPS, so yes. I have only ever vegged with a 4'x2' 8-Tube T5 light. I've got a few successful grows under my belt but I decided to not document them online due to certain circumstances. I'm a relatively experienced grower, but not an expert by any means. I'm probably going to throw my T5 light in my 4'x4' Gorilla Grow Tent and do a run of tomatoes just so I've got some experience growing them before building out the LED fixtures and buying the HID components for the experiment.

Everyone please feel free to chime in with criticism or any ways you think we can make this experiment a valid and credible one. If this is done properly, the community could have a lot of their questions answered regarding these two controversial lighting systems. I'm willing to invest in this.
Maybe a tomato variety such as "Patio F" or similar that stays more compact would be appropriate for this test so you height don't get too out of control.
Being that most cannabis growers are focusing on a canopy depth of around 18"
You could run like 9 of those per 4x4 to get a pretty good comparison of biomass of led vs hps or enhanced metal halide.
Will also be very important for you to document things such as plant health, flavor etc...
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
Maybe a tomato variety such as "Patio F" or similar that stays more compact would be appropriate for this test so you height don't get too out of control.
Being that most cannabis growers are focusing on a canopy depth of around 18"
You could run like 9 of those per 4x4 to get a pretty good comparison of biomass of led vs hps or enhanced metal halide.
Will also be very important for you to document things such as plant health, flavor etc...
Yeah the 'Better Bush' tomato supposedly grows bushy similar to marijuana and stays > 5' in height. It finishes in a bit over 2 months from seed-harvest best suited for 14/10 lighting throughout the entire cycle. I can grow a plant to take clones from for the experiment with the equipment I already have too. I could run 9 in a 4'x4' footprint. I need to do more re search specifically for indoor tomato growing to determine pot sizes (transplanting, etc.)

I plan to closely monitor and document everything I possibly can. I want it to be as close to a properly conducted scientific experiment as possible.
 

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
Just run the 1000W Blue from the start and adjust distance to lamp accordingly
How much area are you planning to cover with the lamp and in what reflector?

This will be interested, can't wait to hear the led boys squealing when your leafs are all leather and twisting with pock marks.
Even though this is a cannabis website, there is more to growing life than that and this will be very telling about light spectrum diet
Could you at least post quotes of said offenses? Please. Once and for all or maybe you could continue your passive agressive quips? How many things in life need a running theme over hurt feelings? Throat too dry, fuck water, that bastard and variations of such and on and on, sound familiar?
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
Could you at least post quotes of said offenses? Please. Once and for all or maybe you could continue your passive agressive quips? How many things in life need a running theme over hurt feelings? Throat too dry, fuck water, that bastard and variations of such and on and on, sound familiar?
I'd rather not have any LED vs HID arguments cluttering my threads regarding this experiment. I admit I've partook in that BS myself recently on this forum. Lets all try to behave like adults for this one. Some people think HID is better than LED and some people think LED is better than HID; but no one really knows, yet.

I can already foresee the arguments this experiment will create. "So what LED can compete with HID for growing tomatoes? Lets see an experiment with cannabis!" - Tomatoes are known to grow very similar to cannabis. That's all I'll be able to say to that until I can do this same thing with cannabis. This whole thing is really just to see if LED can compete with HID while drawing 20% (+/-) less power. If the tomatoes in the LED tent fair just as well as the ones in the HID tent, then I think that's saying something for LED's potential to grow weed.

If any HID guys want to suggest an alternative to anything on this price list, I'm all ears. Right now the plan is to set up the ol' 4'x4' gorilla tent and run some 'Better Bush' tomatoes under my 432W 8-Bulb HO T5 Light, so I've got a bit of experience growing this plant before doing the real run. I'll also be able to note when the tomatoes show signs of flowering so I can know when to switch from MH to HPS in the HID tent.
 

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
I'd rather not have any LED vs HID arguments cluttering my threads regarding this experiment. I admit I've partook in that BS myself recently on this forum. Lets all try to behave like adults for this one. Some people think HID is better than LED and some people think LED is better than HID; but no one really knows, yet.

I can already foresee the arguments this experiment will create. "So what LED can compete with HID for growing tomatoes? Lets see an experiment with cannabis!" - Tomatoes are known to grow very similar to cannabis. That's all I'll be able to say to that until I can do this same thing with cannabis. This whole thing is really just to see if LED can compete with HID while drawing 20% (+/-) less power. If the tomatoes in the LED tent fair just as well as the ones in the HID tent, then I think that's saying something for LED's potential to grow weed.



If any HID guys want to suggest an alternative to anything on this price list, I'm all ears. Right now the plan is to set up the ol' 4'x4' gorilla tent and run some 'Better Bush' tomatoes under my 432W 8-Bulb HO T5 Light, so I've got a bit of experience growing this plant before doing the real run. I'll also be able to note when the tomatoes show signs of flowering so I can know when to switch from MH to HPS in the HID tent.
All I would offer is that it would be interesting to see LED from start as well as the HID. A lot happens to a plant in those critical first weeks.
Starting under T5 is not using HID (although a very nice light source indeed) ;)
 

Humple

Well-Known Member
All I would offer is that it would be interesting to see LED from start as well as the HID. A lot happens to a plant in those critical first weeks.
Starting under T5 is not using HID (although a very nice light source indeed) ;)
Pretty sure he's saying he plans to grow a tester crop under the T5s, then start over under both LED and HID.
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
All I would offer is that it would be interesting to see LED from start as well as the HID. A lot happens to a plant in those critical first weeks.
Starting under T5 is not using HID (although a very nice light source indeed) ;)
The T5 grow's sole purpose is to make sure I can grow a tomato as well as I can grow a weed plant, lol. Sort of a frivolous phase in the grand scheme of things but I think its best I do it anyways for the sake of conducting a proper experiment. I'm also very excited to see how 3500K COB LED fairs against that Hortilux Blue MH lamp during veg. Time will tell bongsmilie:blsmoke:
 
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