Is Egypt bad for the US and Israel?

Jimdamick said:

I don't like beating a dead horse, but I think the shit we are in now has a lot more to do with Bush's idiotic foreign policies than Obama's actions, or lack of, some say. The Middle East was bad enough before Bush, but after that guy, it went totally to shit

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The actions and lack thereof of consecutive administrations is largely to blame IMO, but when you come into office riding a wave of alleged “hope and change” you’d think doing what the last guy did and then expanding on it would bring different results... From chaos will come order.... or at least that’s the hope...

Jimdamick said:

Obama is still trying to get rid of the crap left him like Afghanistan and Quantanamo.

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When a pile of flaming crap is dropped in your lap, you don’t pull out your gasoline can and flame on... You don’t fire* your top General, a man who wrote the book on counter-insurgency, revamped doctrine and curriculums and who was successfully credited with redefining the way America fights wars. People like Major General Stanley McChrystal are few and far between... How does that help to end the Afghanistan conflict? If anything it has undermined much of the progress that has been made...

And Guantanamo can be closed despite one hand being tied by congress. POTUS has authority to transfer detainees out of GITMO under a waiver process created by congress. There is also no restriction on transferring detainees into the custody of foreign governments. Last i read there were actually 80 or so detainees that had been cleared for release but I forget why they’ve not been released.

Jimdamick said:

You can blame Obama for some things, but the Islamist movement isn't one of them

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the islamist movement started before he was born but Obama is responsible for its resurgence, the selective support of terrorist groups including AQ when it serves a purpose and Obama is most certainly responsible for the death of Americans as a result of blowback from his short sighted and misguided foreign policy.

Jimdamick said:

I don't like beating a dead horse, but I think the shit we are in now has a lot more to do with Bush's idiotic foreign policies than Obama's actions, or lack of, some say. The Middle East was bad enough before Bush, but after that guy, it went totally to shit. Obama is still trying to get rid of the crap left him like Afghanistan and Quantanamo. You can blame Obama for some things, but the Islamist movement isn't one of them

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dude you MUST be high.

The One rode into town on a magical unicorn crafted from huge piles of vague rhetoric about Hope 'n' Change(tm) and a huge dearth of details, he has delivered Sweet Fuck All on his nebulous promises.

he could end "Enhanced Interrogations" and waterboarding with an order to the joint chiefs, since he is allegedly Commander in Chief. he has not done so.
he could order guantanamo detainees moved to any military installation, including Leavenworth, and nobody could dispute his order, not even the congress. he has not done so.
he could end the "warrantless wiretaps" he was so hot and bothered about when he was campaigning, but he has chosen to leave the programs in place.
his defenders insist "Fast 'n' Furious" was a BOOSH program, yet it was started under HIS administration, and the paper trail leads all the way to Holder's office door.
he could end Holder's crackdown on medical cannabis with an order to the justice dept, he chooses to remain silent despite his assurances during the campaign that he was the pot head president.
he could order the joint chiefs to get our troops out of the "Quagmires" as he called them in the campaign but so far all he has done is maintain the schedule drawn up by the hated BOOSH.

he has maintained every program and policy of the evil BOOOSH administration that i hated, and has dismantled everything of value in the BOOSH agenda.

the only change he has delivered has been for the worse, and hope is an endangered species, unless you're a wall street fat cat, then its tall cotton as far as the eye can see.

NLXSK1 said:

it is entertainment...

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For who, you only? Spare us?

echelon1k1 said:

You must love one handed claps...

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If you listen hard enough, it sounds like, a tree falling when no one is listening.

Jimdamick said:

After a week of unrest that has left almost 700 dead, mostly members of the Muslim Brotherhood, calls are being made by Islamist militants to attack US offices all over Africa and the Middle East. This week also a rocket was fired into Israel from the Sinai Peninsula by Islamist militants associated with Al Qaeda. It appears that things don't look too good for us or our best friend over there. Right now the US is having to support the democratically elected President Morsi, who supports the Islamists and at the same time they are trying to broker a peace treaty between Israel and the Palestinians which doesn't look promising in the best light. What's a man to do? Support the Egyptian military in their shooting spree aimed at Islamists who hate us and Israel, or support President Morsi whose supporters also hate us and Israel? Should be interesting to see how it all turns out.

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Fuck the zionist and fuck usa govt,who you think funded the brotherhood why don't we go after Saudi Arabia for its terrorists acts they get away with this Corp we call America was buit to be the power machine behind the nwo agenda that's why our govt is draining the country of its assets including the dollar and the people wake up Fuck nobama

You have the right attitude, I'll give you that.

Here is a clue. Saud is shitting in there pants that we don't just turn our secret buddy Iran loose on them. That is a fact. And in 20 year or so when we get our domestic production on line, we will do that.

If there was not oil there, we would be letting them duke it out.

I will say that the most difficult game in the world is the most simple. Not Chess. GO is the father of Chess. Chess is a less abstract version of GO.

And since my Taiwan friend, 1st Dan, GO, said I would never be able to learn it, I did. Not learn to play, really. He was right. I learned the play. It is exactly like Global Politics Real.

Never a good move in GO. All moves help both combatants. Element of surprise is everything but how to gain that with black and white dots?

You re-define surprise as you GO. Just like in Real.

So, you in this analogy are not a GO player and unlike me you are also not a GO observer. You don't know the game. And if you did play, you would lose you pants immediately.

The thing that is so real about GO is that each move is a choice of Bad. And one tiny move will risk it all, in ways you can't see. But, perhaps your opponent has lured you there.

If you want to know world politics, learn enough GO to let the most baby computer AI, kick your ass a couple of times. That will open your eyes perhaps to the fact there are no good moves. And an amateur thinking he knows the good move in GO is a joke. There is not a good move in GO and there is not one in Real either.

WOW !!!!! this is what happens when public education is under funded.. and teachers unions favor tenure over effectiveness and results.. i guess also when you have politicians who go on TV and talk recklessly and flat out lie putting ideology above not only what is good for the country but globally.. the middle east is a complicated onion with many layers.. the real problem is that the US needs to step the fuck back and rest our necks and then you would see the subtle nuances of the infighting between different Islamic factions giving them an opportunity to kill each other leaving less radical fundamental Islamist for us to fight....

and support green energy.. solar, wind and bio fuels i.e the legalization of commercial hemp production...

GROW YOUR OWN WEED AND FUEL STOP SUPPORTING CARTELS..: BE IT DRUG OR OIL

Doer said:

Here is a clue. Saud is shitting in there pants that we don't just turn our secret buddy Iran loose on them. That is a fact.

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Please expound a bit more on this mountainous claim. I'm not going to pretend like the odds are high I could possibly believe this, but I'm trying not to be rude about asking you to continue. I'm genuinely interested and this promises to be entertaining.

Since the Army has the Will of the People in Egypt, the Brotherhood was the coup. It was a strong arm down in the voting neighborhoods.

And I am sure E has mentioned this and maybe even the silly rabbit, but I didn't know the leader of Al Q, the dude with the rag head, still alive, has a brother. And that Brother is a highly placed muck-muck in the Brotherhood.

So, E who are we fighting? SUNNI!!! And how will we fight them? TO DEATH!!! And who is our friend? S'HIA!!!

Means Iran is our friend while they still punish us for the Sunni oil scam and only half assing Zion against Sunni.

It will be a whole new world in 20 years. Get ready.

Dr Kynes said:

dude you MUST be high.

The One rode into town on a magical unicorn crafted from huge piles of vague rhetoric about Hope 'n' Change(tm) and a huge dearth of details, he has delivered Sweet Fuck All on his nebulous promises.

he could end "Enhanced Interrogations" and waterboarding with an order to the joint chiefs, since he is allegedly Commander in Chief. he has not done so.

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I was going to read the rest but got caught up with this

Have you a source for this?

ginjawarrior said:

I was going to read the rest but got caught up with this

Have you a source for this?

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For the Hope and Change agenda? Or the fact that as the President he is read in the first day and is not worried about what he said. He sees finally, what is. He sees what his duty is.

This President has done just fine. Got re-upped, using his broad powers. The PUBS are running around in circles and helpless before the actual threat of loosing ground in the mid-terms. If they do, Obama and Hillary are made in the shade and may as will like or hate, self rule.

I like it.

Doer said:

For the Hope and Change agenda? Or the fact that as the President he is read in the first day and is not worried about what he said. He sees finally, what is. He sees what his duty is.

This President has done just fine. Got re-upped, using his broad powers. The PUBS are running around in circles and helpless before the actual threat of loosing ground in the mid-terms. If they do, Obama and Hillary are made in the shade and may as will like or hate, self rule.

I like it.

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I was deliberate in cutting off the end of Keynes post to make the part I was querying clear

I see I needed to cut it back further so that people here don't get confused

Dr Kynes said:

he could end "Enhanced Interrogations" and waterboarding with an order to the joint chiefs, since he is allegedly Commander in Chief. he has not done so.

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As I asked in previous post source?

ginjawarrior said:

I was deliberate in cutting off the end of Keynes post to make the part I was querying clear

I see I needed to cut it back further so that people here don't get confused

As I asked in previous post source?

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Clinton started the rendition program & Bush the enhanced interrogation program the difference between the two is under Bush, Americans are doing the interrogating. Both were started by executive order, both can just as easily be ended the same way.

He didn't do himself any favours by nominating Brennan to head the Agency, the current director was an integral part of the post 9/11 revamp in the way the CIA goes after its targets.

echelon1k1 said:

Clinton started the rendition program & Bush the enhanced interrogation program the difference between the two is under Bush, Americans are doing the interrogating. Both were started by executive order, both can just as easily be ended the same way.

He didn't do himself any favours by nominating Brennan to head the Agency, the current director was an integral part of the post 9/11 revamp in the way the CIA goes after its targets.

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I'm not asking about Bush or Clinton or whether any of Obama's actions over the last 5 years has done him any favours

I'm asking for a source that shows enhanced interrogation and waterboarding continues to be in use by Obama administration

ginjawarrior said:

I'm not asking about Bush or Clinton or whether any of Obama's actions over the last 5 years has done him any favours

I'm asking for a source that shows enhanced interrogation and waterboarding continues to be in use by Obama administration

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Executive Order 13491 -- Ensuring Lawful Interrogations signed by Obama, instructs interrogators to adhere to the guidelines within the Geneva convention for all detainees that meet the US criteria to be classified as POWs under the Geneva convention.

from Geneva convention: any attempt to extract information from an unwilling prisoner of war by the use of chemicals, drugs, physiological or psychological devices, which impair or deprive the prisoner of his free will without being in his interest, such as a bonafide medical treatment, will be deemed a violation of Articles 13 and 17 of the [1949 Geneva POW] Convention

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For detainees that don't meet the US criteria, they are classified as unlawful enemy combatants and are subject to the interrogation guidelines set forth in Army Field Manual FM 2-22.3 (FM 34-52) Appendix M.

echelon1k1 said:

Executive Order 13491 -- Ensuring Lawful Interrogations signed by Obama, instructs interrogators to adhere to the guidelines within the Geneva convention for all detainees that meet the US criteria to be classified as POWs under the Geneva convention.



For detainees that don't meet the US criteria, they are classified as unlawful enemy combatants and are subject to the interrogation guidelines set forth in Army Field Manual FM 2-22.3 (FM 34-52) Appendix M.

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Well done you've done more research than most

Now could you point out which of the 19 approved techniques would come under the classification of "enhanced interrogation" or "waterboarding"?

ginjawarrior said:

I'm not asking about Bush or Clinton or whether any of Obama's actions over the last 5 years has done him any favours

I'm asking for a source that shows enhanced interrogation and waterboarding continues to be in use by Obama administration

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Given the secretive nature of government, do you really think IF it were being used, they'd admit to it?

Rob Roy said:

Given the secretive nature of government, do you really think IF it were being used, they'd admit to it?

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Right after they were straight with us about what actually was going on in Bengazi...

Rob Roy said:

Given the secretive nature of government, do you really think IF it were being used, they'd admit to it?

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Lol ol' one tricks turned up

So you have no evidence either just special pleading right?

ginjawarrior said:

Well done you've done more research than most

Now could you point out which of the 19 approved techniques would come under the classification of "enhanced interrogation" or "waterboarding"?

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attention grasp
Walling
facial hold
facial insult or slap
Cramped confinement
Confinement with insects
Confinement with canines
Wall standing
Stress positions
Sleep deprivation
Waterboarding
Violent Shaking
Sensory Bombardment
Sexual Humiliation in some cases assault
Room Temp Manipulation
Beating/Physical Assault
Threats of harm to family and/or friends
Mock Executions
Forced Drugging
psychological manipulation (being forced to watch another detainee being tortured)