Is this the Beginning of Iron Deficiency?

im4satori said:

and


an R.O. doesn't do anything to remove posion or pescticide or herbicide of any kind

it simply removes the mineral from the water

if your source water isn't high in bad or excessive minerals such as sodium or any element that's excessive like sulfur or iron or calcium depending on where you live and what the water is like...

Click to expand...

Not sure about my 3 stage ro unit. The carbon filter may work on some chemicals.

MichiganMedGrower said:

Not sure about my 3 stage ro unit. The carbon filter may work on some chemicals.

Click to expand...

I believe that one does work on chlorine

but if I lived next to a corn field I wouldn't rely on it to remove the herbicides that's for sure

hydro fertilizer companies have a long history of making false claims and doing shady shit

personally I don't believe anything they say except what they list as % info

hmmm how do we appear to be better than our competitors........
hmmm how can we give our product the appearance of being proprietary.......
hmmm how much should we spend this year on advertising.....
hmmm the advertiser has to justify his commission by giving them a catch pitch to sell more shit

my guess is its got nothing new, but that's a guess

maybe they use chelated micro nutes in hopes the elements will be available over a broader ph scale

maybe they just added PEK acid to buffer hard water

to medmichignas point... who knows

im4satori said:

I believe that one does work on chlorine

but if I lived next to a corn field I wouldn't rely on it to remove the herbicides that's for sure

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That's what I was just worried about when I read your comment. I live close to corn fields all around me.

But my well is deep in the bedrock about 100 feet.

But I keep thinking I should install a chlorine filter. Just to have to stir it back out for us and the plants. Lol

im4satori said:

hydro fertilizer companies have a long history of making false claims and doing shady shit

personally I don't believe anything they say except what they list as % info

hmmm how do we appear to be better than our competitors........
hmmm how can we give our product the appearance of being proprietary.......
hmmm how much should we spend this year on advertising.....
hmmm the advertiser has to justify his commission by giving them a catch pitch to sell more shit

my guess is its got nothing new, but that's a guess

maybe they use chelated micro nutes in hopes the elements will be available over a broader ph scale

maybe they just added PEK acid to buffer hard water

to medmichignas point... who knows

Click to expand...

I am going to take a guess and say that it is a strong buffer or 2 and a pair of different strength acids.

It would work but it is exactly what is not recommended to do with ph up and down.

Well except from general hydro. There instructions are clear. To adjust everything. Lol.

They sell a reliable liquid ph kit though.

MichiganMedGrower said:

That's what I was just worried about when I read your comment. I live close to corn fields all around me.

But my well is deep in the bedrock about 100 feet.

But I keep thinking I should install a chlorine filter. Just to have to stir it back out for us and the plants. Lol

Click to expand...

im not sure,
I used to live on a golf course years and years ago.. its getting hard to avoid

if you live near a farm, a golf coarse or an army base you have good reason to be concerned is the most I can say

I don't think a chlorine filter would help... thatll just sterile the water from bacteria or pathogens ..but it wont remove chems I don't think... im not a chemist so im not really sure

I wonder if you could get a water test done specifically looking for herbicide content

im4satori said:

im not sure,
I used to live on a golf course years and years ago.. its getting hard to avoid

if you live near a farm, a golf coarse or an army base you have good reason to be concerned is the most I can say

I don't think a chlorine filter would help... thatll just sterile the water from bacteria or pathogens ..but it wont remove chems I don't think... im not a chemist so im not really sure

Click to expand...

We drink bottled water but honestly out well water tastes fine and could be safer than the source of the bottled water.

Time for more water research. I don't think I can afford the kind of test I would need to be thourough.

I live deep in river and lake country. Lots of funky government stuff done to control the waters here.

I will say even if you have been successful for years be open to ideas of taking better care of your plants. I'm on my first grow from the same clones as my buddy who has been doing it for years, and my results are drastically better. I personally love learning and love researching different methods. I guess I'm saying you never know what results your leaving on the table.

if I had water that was over 400ppm with no water test and it was hard water I might cut it 50/50 with filtered water

soft water you gotta worry if the ppm is high cuz it might contain high amount of sodium... but as long as it doesn't id do the same 50/50 cut but only if it was over 400ppm

im4satori said:

I wonder if you could get a water test done specifically looking for herbicide content

Click to expand...

We were posting at the same time.

I have a basic test from a neighbor drilled into the same place and it tested negative to pesticides and most bacteria.

Has a few ppm of suffer eating bacteria that is easily dispersed into the atmosphere.

And it has a bit too much soluble iron but tastes good Grows wonderful plants and is only .3 ec.

Typical high (but in range ) calcium and not enough magnesium.

But can I trust the pesticide or chemical results?. I doubt it.

I forgot. I use a hydro test kit that comfirmed the results when I moved in.

It also has not budged from .3 ec and 8.0 ph in 2 years here checking regularly.

im a good distance from the nearest corn field

but maybe only a mile down the road theres maybe 1000 acres lol of farm
corn and tabacco

I like to think cuz im a mile away that im safe but in all truth the water under us is all connected

my well might be 150ft deep but I live in the mountians so 150 ft might be about the same elevation as the farms down the road and who knows how the water table flows

JohnDoeTho said:

I will say even if you have been successful for years be open to ideas of taking better care of your plants. I'm on my first grow from the same clones as my buddy who has been doing it for years, and my results are drastically better. I personally love learning and love researching different methods. I guess I'm saying you never know what results your leaving on the table.

Click to expand...

When you stick to the same successful method your plants should improve in yield and quality all the time.

If you are striving to get better at helping your plants reach their potential.

I have only finally maxed out my results in my current pot size from the seeds I like to run. Took 2.5 years before my average stopped getting higher. It is as or more complex and potent. And tasty and strong smelling as anything I have tried. But it was not always that good. Took tons of practice.

Changing methods and products to get better results is just chasing your tail in my opinion.

I only make minor changes at a time to experiment and only on one plant. I can't risk them all.

Fun reading and seeing and talking about it though.

im4satori said:

if I had water that was over 400ppm with no water test and it was hard water I might cut it 50/50 with filtered water

soft water you gotta worry if the ppm is high cuz it might contain high amount of sodium... but as long as it doesn't id do the same 50/50 cut but only if it was over 400ppm

Click to expand...

Agreed. I have read all over legitimate guides that 150 ppm .3 ec is ideal.

I mixed with ro at first here. But it is much more stable and needs no adjustment as is. Plus the plants like the minerals.

Water Quality


All hydroponic/soilless culture systems require sizable quantities of relatively

pure water. The best domestic water supplies and/or water for agricultural

use frequently contain substances and elements that can affect (positively or

negatively) plant growth. Even rainwater collected from the greenhouse covering

may contain both inorganic and organic substances that can affect plant

growth. In many parts of the United States and indeed throughout the world,

water quality can be a major problem for hydroponic/soilless culture use due

to contamination by various inorganic and organic substances.

Therefore, a complete analysis of the water to be used for any type of

hydroponic/soilless culture system is essential. The analysis should include

inorganic and organic components if the water is being taken from a river,

shallow well, or other surface source. When taken from sources other than

these, an inorganic elemental assay will be sufficient to determine elemental

composition and concentration.

Natural water supplies can contain sizable concentrations of some of the

essential elements required by plants, particularly Ca and Mg. In areas where

water is being taken from limestone-based aquifers, it is not unusual for

concentrations of Ca and Mg to be as high as 100 and 30 mg/L (ppm),

respectively. Some natural waters will contain sizable concentrations of Na

and anions such as bicarbonate (HCO3

–), carbonate (CO2

3–), sulfate (SO4

2–),

and chloride (Cl–). In some areas, B may be found in fairly high concentrations.

The Nutrient Solution 73

Sulfide (S–), primarily as iron sulfide, which gives a “rotten egg” smell to water,


is found in some natural waters.

Suggested composition characteristics of waters suitable for use hydroponically

as well as for irrigation have been published. Verwer and Wellman (1980)

established what the maximum mineral concentration would be for water used

in rockwool culture, as shown in Table 7.1. Farnhand et al. (1985) have

established criteria for irrigation water based on salinity, electric conducivity

(EC), total dissolved solids (TDS), and ion content (Table 7.2). Waters et al.

(1972) have set the suitability of water for irrigating pot plants; their data are

given in Table 7.3. Smith (1999) elemental maximums for water for hydroponic

use (Table 7.4). Ideal water-quality guidelines for plug culture and characteristics

of high-quality irrigation water are given in Table 7.5 and Table 7.6.

Surface or pond water may contain disease organisms or algae, which can


pose problems. Algae grows extraordinarily well in most hydroponic culture

systems, plugging pipes and fouling valves. Filtering and/or other forms of

pretreatment are required to ensure that the water used to prepare the nutrient

solution is free from these undesirable organisms and suspended matter.

In most cases, some form of water treatment will be necessary to make

and maintain suitable nutrient solutions. Depending on what an analysis of

the water supply indicates, no special treatment or filtering may be required

to remove suspended matter. However, the grower may at one end of the

quality scale simply have to filter out debris using sand beds or fine-pore

filters; at the other extreme, sophisticated systems dedicated to ion removal

by means of ion exchange or reverse osmosis may be required (Anon., 1997a).

In hard-water areas, there may be sufficient Ca and Mg in the water to

provide a portion or all of the plant requirements. In addition, the micronutrient

element concentration could be sufficient to preclude the need to add this

group of elements to the nutrient solution. These determinations should be

made only on the basis of an elemental analysis of the water (see pages 314).

Organic chemicals, such as pesticides and herbicides, many of which are


water soluble, can significantly affect plant growth if present even in low

concentrations. Water from shallow wells or from surface water sources in

intensively cropped agricultural areas should be tested for the presence of

these types of chemicals.

Treatment should be employed only if the chemical and/or physical composition

of the water warrants. Obviously, financial and managerial planning

must incorporate the costs of producing nutrient-pure water in a grower’s

specified environment. For example, it may be financially prudent to accept

some crop loss from the use of impure water rather than attempting to recover

the cost of water treatment. Treatment may be as simple and inexpensive a

task as acidifying the water to remove bicarbonates (HCO3) and carbonates

(CO3) or as expensive as complete ion removal by reverse osmosis.


Water samples should be submitted to a testing laboratory for a complete

analysis before use, and the analysis should be repeated whenever a change

in the water source is made.

thought id give you a read, not sure if it provides you anything new

sorry to the original poster for being off topic

im4satori said:

thought id give you a read, not sure if it provides you anything new

sorry to the original poster for being off topic

Click to expand...

Good info. I have read it and many other articles from greenhouse production and such saying the same things.