ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I bumped the epsom up like that at one point and did not like the results. It may have been when I was running more calcium nitrate than mix, though.
Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients
- Thread starter Growerguy420
- Start date
im4satori
Well-Known Member
at your higher EC itll be more likely to see issues with lock out
the xtra calcium from the calcium nitrate pushes the potassium, magnesium requirements up which ultimately rasies the EC across the board
im4satori
Well-Known Member
the other option is to lower your calcium
to do this youd use less calcium nitrate and a small amount of magnesium nitrate
doing this would not only lower your calcium requiring less magnesium to get the 2:1 ratio between calcium and magnesium
,,,, that also lowers the excess unneeded sulfur added by the Epsom salt since youd be using less magnesium sulfate
allowing you to feed the same amount of NPK: and keep the Ca:Mg: it proportion but with a lower EC
to do this youd use less calcium nitrate and a small amount of magnesium nitrate
doing this would not only lower your calcium requiring less magnesium to get the 2:1 ratio between calcium and magnesium
,,,, that also lowers the excess unneeded sulfur added by the Epsom salt since youd be using less magnesium sulfate
allowing you to feed the same amount of NPK: and keep the Ca:Mg: it proportion but with a lower EC
im4satori
Well-Known Member
excessive calcium (requiring more magnesium sulfate) and excess sulfur are what drives most EC numbers up
high sulfur can be given to plants with no direct consequence but there is consequence to an over all high EC
and excess sulfur adds to that
so why not do everything we can to eliminate the excess allowing for the lowest EC possible while meeting all the demands required for mass performance
high sulfur can be given to plants with no direct consequence but there is consequence to an over all high EC
and excess sulfur adds to that
so why not do everything we can to eliminate the excess allowing for the lowest EC possible while meeting all the demands required for mass performance
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
The classic mix is;
3 parts 5-11-26 mic
2 parts calcium nitrate
1 part epsom salt
How is this ratio inferior?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
that's guaranteed to leave you with Mg lockout
im assuming this is for veg with all that N
calcium is 20% higher than needed
K is over the top
the magnesium low by all standard even if the calcium and potassium was in range
even without the high calcium and high potassium lockout the magnesium is low
im assuming this is for veg with all that N
calcium is 20% higher than needed
K is over the top
the magnesium low by all standard even if the calcium and potassium was in range
even without the high calcium and high potassium lockout the magnesium is low
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
You sure you didn't get the mix and calcium nitrate backwards?
Again, these are RATIOS, not an exact recipe. Dilute to desired EC.
im4satori
Well-Known Member
same thing with the calcium nitrate
the more you push the calcium up then you have to push the magnesium up and you get more sulfur
because of the relationship between potassium, calcium and magnesium
you need a 3;2;1 ratio in veg and preferable something close in bloom
in bloom some people might be able to get away with a 4;2;1 ratio if there mix has a high K ratio during bloom
, but I prefer the 3;2;1 or close
either way the mag is half the calcium
the more you push the calcium up then you have to push the magnesium up and you get more sulfur
because of the relationship between potassium, calcium and magnesium
you need a 3;2;1 ratio in veg and preferable something close in bloom
in bloom some people might be able to get away with a 4;2;1 ratio if there mix has a high K ratio during bloom
, but I prefer the 3;2;1 or close
either way the mag is half the calcium
im4satori
Well-Known Member
this is why calmag products are kinda tricky
if you've got enough calcium in your mix
and your magnesium def... every says "add more calmag" nope thatll make it worse
only add calmag if your calcium def (red rust freckles on lower leaves)
add Epsom if your magnesium def (taco leaf on the top half of plant)
if you've got enough calcium in your mix
and your magnesium def... every says "add more calmag" nope thatll make it worse
only add calmag if your calcium def (red rust freckles on lower leaves)
add Epsom if your magnesium def (taco leaf on the top half of plant)
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Wait a minute. Just a few posts above you said this ratio would guarantee lockout. What changed?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
maybe saying it guarantees lock out was over stated
speaking in terms of veg ratios youd want to keep your 3:2:1 ratio K: Ca : Mg
flower you can lean toward 4:2:1.... but with this formula and with that much N 120ppm I assume we are looking at this as a veg formula
but that mix leaves the magnesium at only 25ppm with the calcium at 100ppm (only requiring 70ppm)and the K at 170ppm (only requiring 120ppm)
you would need to raise your magnesium up to 50ppm to get half the calcium
this would also push your sulfur up significantly
all equaling a combined excess of un-needed EC that only adds to salt build up.... especially at the EC you guys are running
the final formula has more than 30% more calcium and 30% more K than the ratio requires for veg
after you add the magnesium sulfate to get the magnesium up to 50ppm youll end up with 65ppm sulfur which isn't double
what the plants minimum requirements
you just don't need all that calcium, sulfur and K
if your experiencing magnesium def it would make more sense to lower the element that are in excess that the magnesium competes with than to add more
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I'm running the numbers we discussed a couple of weeks ago. How do those ratios compare?
im4satori
Well-Known Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
It was these, and I said I was going to use them for awhile. I didn't say that about any other formulas;
VEG
2 parts 5-11-26 mix
2 parts calcium nitrate
1 part mag sulfate, aka epsom salts
BLOOM
2.5 parts mix
2 parts calcium nitrate
1 part epsom
.5 MKP, monopotassium phosphate
LATE BLOOM last 2 weeks
2.5 parts mix
1.6 calcium nitrate
.75 epsom
.75 MKP
