LEC lighting

GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
I wonder if the light intensity is more with the fixture as opposed to bare bulb.

Is it more intense to use the fixture to redirect the majority of the light on a 4x4 area? Conversely, is it less intense to spread the light to an area of pi(22") ² or the 100% of light focused to a 3x3 or 4x4 area?

Is my thinking able to be followed? I'm in a car right now, when I'm back home I'll juggle some numbers around, unless anyone wants to get on it first.


Just off the brain here: its gotta be more intense with the fixture. The full intensity of the light focused on that patch of area as opposed to the intensity of the light spread over the full 360° of a vertical setup...
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I think it's more focused with the reflector, it's like a mirror surface. Only thing with the reflector is you're limited to around 3x3 +- a few inches. I don't know enough about vertical setups. I do think these can be more effective than hps if adapted to the grow style.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
My 2nd run with LEC,DWC this time,one plant...at 5-6 weeks 12/12
Took off some lower growth.
I can tell I like them over a table more all ready.
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Nice, looks like some nice bud coming up on that one :) Good shot of the reflector, you can see the reflection of the plant in the pic, that's the "mirror-like" finish on the Sun Systems reflector I was referring to.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
I was just about to comment on that reflection!

Looks like a well made unit!
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They are nice/high end reflectors. If you want or need the reflector, the bundled LEC Sun Systems are worth the money imo, to get a reflector in this quality range you'd end up spending the same or more in a DIY setup. Only benefits I see for DIY are if you want to run bare-bulb (cheaper) or make/rig up a different type/style reflector like a parabolic reflector.
 
a senile fungus

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
They are nice/high end reflectors. If you want or need the reflector, the bundled LEC Sun Systems are worth the money imo, to get a reflector in this quality range you'd end up spending the same or more in a DIY setup. Only benefits I see for DIY are if you want to run bare-bulb (cheaper) or make/rig up a different type/style reflector like a parabolic reflector.
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This, especially with the bundled step up/down transformer to run the unit at 110/120v, the price tag on the subsystem LEC is worth it.

For me, the DIY bare-bulb is what I needed but I still had to purchase the mogul sockets and transformers and do all the wiring and stuff.

This is a good thread for these types of discussion. These lights are lacking attention in this forum.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
This, especially with the bundled step up/down transformer to run the unit at 110/120v, the price tag on the subsystem LEC is worth it.

For me, the DIY bare-bulb is what I needed but I still had to purchase the mogul sockets and transformers and do all the wiring and stuff.

This is a good thread for these types of discussion. These lights are lacking attention in this forum.
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Thanks for posting this Senile, I've mentioned this a couple of times but good to get confirmation from someone who DIY'd the Elite Agro setup. Of course if you want to or need to go bare-bulb you'll have to DIY. But if you're planning to use any form of reflector, unless you already have something, DIY doesn't make a lot of sense as the bundle is a very good price, I question whether you could piece it together for less and get the same quality reflectors. The 120v is the most expensive at $498 but includes all the components including the neatly bundled/packaged down converter, The 240v is around $450. The second LEC/120v unit I purchased was when they had an across the board 10% discount on lights @$450, the 240v at that time would have been around $410. Hard to beat that pricing or DIY it cheaper.

There's definitely been some interest, I've had a few folks PM me with questions and although not a ton of posts, there are definitely a few folks watching my thread in the background based on the visits logged. This thread would be a good discussion area for sure. I think once a few grows are documented the interest/activity level will increase. There are so many threads and rightly so, a lot of folks are skeptical when someone claims or recommends any sort of new tech. I personally have to see some results before my skepticism wanes. I can definitely say "I've seen the light" lol ;)
 
typoerror

typoerror

Well-Known Member
these lights are amazing. running one and plan on getting two more by xmas.

the light paid for itself in two harvest on the increased production alone.
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
As a noob with zero experience, I can't add any useful insight here. But I've been "window shopping" LED's for my eventual 1st grow for a short while and looking into lighting options that seem to offer both performance and value for money for the type of setup I aspire to build. GroErr's journal, one other and this thread as well as the testing video on the Growershouse site and the odd thread elsewhere have def' peaked my interest in the Sun Systems LEC 315w unit. Struggling to find any real negatives and the price is pretty attractive too IMO, especially for an initial setup (not to mention the fact that it's plug and play). Seems like I could cover a good space with 2 or 3 of these and supplement with the odd small LED panel (A51 or something), giving what looks like great coverage and hopefully good performance. My only real question right now, while continuing to sit back and observe how well you guys do with the 315's, is, has anyone actually tried the larger unit that houses 2 x bulbs (630)? As long as the head-room required is only the same or virtually the same, would that not mean a HUGE increase in lumens over a slightly longer shaped footprint? Is my logic way off (still a bit confused by the physics of lighting, but trying to get up to speed with spectra/ PAR etc.)?

For UK based growers or lurkers like me:
I've been trying to source a UK supplier of these units recently and, to cut a long story short, it seems like there aren't any who actually carry them in stock. BUT, one company, "Progrow" will order them on request (this seems like a long-winded process from what their man told me - they only order once every 3 months or something!), but you could always call and ask the deal I guess - they replied to me very quickly. AND, I have come across another firm, "Maxigrow", who claim to be developing an "equivalent" 315w LEC fixture, called the "Maxibright 315W Daylight system", to hit the market over the next couple of months or so (maybe 1 to look out for...?). Summing up, any UK based growers that want these right away will have to order from a US store and eat shipping (I still think it looks a reasonable deal personally, but don't listen to me as I know jack shit, listen to other, more informed guys).
 
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GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Heavy Consumer said:
As a noob with zero experience, I can't add any useful insight here. But I've been "window shopping" LED's for my eventual 1st grow for a short while and looking into lighting options that seem to offer both performance and value for money for the type of setup I aspire to build. GroErr's journal, one other and this thread as well as the testing video on the Growershouse site and the odd thread elsewhere have def' peaked my interest in the Sun Systems LEC 315w unit. Struggling to find any real negatives and the price is pretty attractive too IMO, especially for an initial setup (not to mention the fact that it's plug and play). Seems like I could cover a good space with 2 or 3 of these and supplement with the odd small LED panel (A51 or something), giving what looks like great coverage and hopefully good performance. My only really big question right now, while continuing to sit back and observe how well you guys do with the 315's, is, has anyone actually tried the larger unit that houses 2 x bulbs (630)? As long as the head-room required is only the same or virtually the same, would that not mean a HUGE increase in lumens over a slightly longer shaped footprint? Is my logic way off (still a bit confused by the physics of lighting, but trying to get up to speed with spectra/ PAR etc.)?

For UK based growers or lurkers like me:
I've been trying to source a UK supplier of these units recently and, to cut a long story short, it seems like there aren't any who actually carry them in stock. BUT, one company, "Progrow" will order them on request (this seems like a long-winded process from what their man told me - they only order once every 3 months or something!), but you could always call and ask the deal I guess - they replied to me very quickly. AND, I have come across another firm, "Maxigrow", who claim to be developing an "equivalent" 315w LEC fixture, called the "Maxibright 315W Daylight system", to hit the market over the next couple of months or so (maybe 1 to look out for...?). Summing up, any UK based growers that want these right away will have to order from a US store and eat shipping (I still think it looks a reasonable deal personally, but don't listen to me as I know jack shit, listen to other, more informed guys).
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Haven't heard any negatives from anyone using them, they're a bargain for a top end flowering light. Not sure if I'd go for a 630w unit, I've always liked the flexibility of more, smaller lights. Now that I've finished a controlled 3x3 grow I'll be running the 2x 315w side-by-side, will cover a 3x6' area well and fits my room nicely. I just pulled the balance of the 3x3 and it's looking like a good haul for a single 315w, will be posting the chop shots and follow up with the dry weights over the next week.
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Haven't heard any negatives from anyone using them, they're a bargain for a top end flowering light. Not sure if I'd go for a 630w unit, I've always liked the flexibility of more, smaller lights. Now that I've finished a controlled 3x3 grow I'll be running the 2x 315w side-by-side, will cover a 3x6' area well and fits my room nicely. I just pulled the balance of the 3x3 and it's looking like a good haul for a single 315w, will be posting the chop shots and follow up with the dry weights over the next week.
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So it would appear. GL with the rest of your harvest. Looking quite impressive already!

I understand the sense in that as long as maximum coverage is a priority, but what I really wanted to ask was, would there be increased quality/yield benefits from the increase in intensity over the smaller area, within that limited area, even if overall, the separate units might perform better by offering a better footprint? I guess I'm overlooking budgetary concerns when asking this. Apologies if this is a naïve question, but as stated, I have no experience yet. But if you think about it, the AP600 covering a 4x4 footprint is a $2500 unit. For under $1000, we'd still probably be covering about a 3 or 3.5 by 4 or 4.5 (absolute guesswork on my part based on the increased dimensions of the reflector). In terms of value, if there are significant benefits from the increased lumens, resulting in bigger yields per sq ft, could still be really interesting. And still probably comparable to the cost of 2 A51 panels, again covering a similar or perhaps (you might actually need 3 A51 panels to cover a 4x4 well in flowering, I really don't know though and I only mention the brand as it's such a go to name in this forum, you could replace it with any other high end LED line and actually many others would be a bit more costly). I'd really like to see a grow run under a 630w unit. It could also be interesting to see what temp's are like with the 2 lamps living side by side.

But as stated earlier, were I to go for a couple of these, I'd probably be looking to max out by filling the spaces in between or around them with some LED's to supplement anyway. Either something to beef up the footprint and/or the spectrum, poss' something with IR like the new Kessil H380 or maybe some of their smaller, cheaper H150's (red or magenta) or just as likely some A51 panels, all depending on the space I have to work with.
 
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H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
There's also a 860w CMH bulb that will run off of a 1000w ballast.

@ttystikk is using the 860w in his vertical silos
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As a first timer, I'm a bit wary of introducing ballasts unnecessarily - I feel that by choosing plug and play lighting options, I'll be able to take my mind of that side of things to a greater extent and focus better on other aspects of my early grows, like hydro system and nutes. However, it will be good to see the results of CMH nonetheless.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Heavy Consumer said:
So it would appear. GL with the rest of your harvest. Looking quite impressive already!

I understand the sense in that as long as maximum coverage is a priority, but what I really wanted to ask was, would there be increased quality/yield benefits from the increase in intensity over the smaller area, within that limited area, even if overall, the separate units might perform better by offering a better footprint? I guess I'm overlooking budgetary concerns when asking this. Apologies if this is a naïve question, but as stated, I have no experience yet. But if you think about it, the AP600 covering a 4x4 footprint is a $2500 unit. For under $1000, we'd still probably be covering about a 3 or 3.5 by 4 or 4.5 (absolute guesswork on my part based on the increased dimensions of the reflector). In terms of value, if there are significant benefits from the increased lumens, resulting in bigger yields per sq ft, could still be really interesting. And still probably comparable to the cost of 2 A51 panels, again covering a similar or perhaps (you might actually need 3 A51 panels to cover a 4x4 well in flowering, I really don't know though and I only mention the brand as it's such a go to name in this forum, you could replace it with any other high end LED line and actually many others would be a bit more costly). I'd really like to see a grow run under a 630w unit. It could also be interesting to see what temp's are like with the 2 lamps living side by side.

But as stated earlier, were I to go for a couple of these, I'd probably be looking to max out by filling the spaces in between or around them with some LED's to supplement anyway. Either something to beef up the footprint and/or the spectrum, poss' something with IR like the new Kessil H380 or maybe some of their smaller, cheaper H150's (red or magenta) or just as likely some A51 panels, all depending on the space I have to work with.
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Yeah a lot of what you're asking is a judgement call and tough to call when you're making the decision. You're doing what I and a lot of others did/do, watching different grows/styles/footprints and making a call based on your situation. Everyone has their unique reasons for doing things and variables that can affect your decision.

e.g. the AT600, some would argue could cover a bigger area, like some 1000w hps folks cover off 5x5, some 4x4. That's a decision you have to make as a grower, my take is maximize the footprint but don't go overboard or you'll loose the intensity and may end up with lower yield. So with an LEC Sun System (reflectors) imo going beyond 3x3 you'd likely loose some density/coverage and may be lowering your overall yield. So if I had been stuck with a 4x4 or 4x8' footprint I may have made a different decision or added some LED's to cover off the edges. As it turns out, my room is 4ft W x 9.5ft L, I don't like a crowded room and need some space for maintenance so the 3ft. wide footprint is good for me, 2 of them cover 3x6' and leave me some room on the end to do some smaller grows with LED's later.

Right now, I'm still new to these LEC's and trying to determine whether the 3x3 is the best footprint, I think the coverage is good in that space but we'll see when I weigh out this run I just pulled. But, would I gain covering say 2.5 x 2.5 with more intensity in a smaller footprint? I'd have to try it and with same strains to tell for sure. I'll have an idea once I weigh this run as I ran the same strains first round but only 2 plants so they had more intensity/coverage per plant/sq. ft. These last one's were bigger plants so I'll allow for that and judge which yield was better overall.

The AT600 are arguably the highest end of the LED options and high end LED's, whether Apache, A51, or DIY COBs are more expensive per watt, typically in the $3+/watt range. All are different configs and cover different footprints. Why I say these LEC's are a bargain, the bundled LEC Sun Systems work out to about $1.60/watt on the 315w and have similar efficiencies like CRI, low heat. So with a room that can handle these LEC's I'm getting more bang for the buck. But the LEC's aren't for everyone, the LED's have an advantage in certain configs like low height tents as they don't need as much head room and throw off slightly less heat. If I had a lower/smaller room I probably would have gone with A51's.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Heavy Consumer said:
As a first timer, I'm a bit wary of introducing ballasts unnecessarily - I feel that by choosing plug and play lighting options, I'll be able to take my mind of that side of things to a greater extent and focus better on other aspects of my early grows, like hydro system and nutes. However, it will be good to see the results of CMH nonetheless.
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Another grower that's using both the 315w Elite Agro's/Sun Systems and the 860w CMH is @Cococola36, he has several threads going, including hps.
 
H

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've been following his threads. He's got lots of nice looking buds in that garden and I love all these grow vid's that members share. Watching them can be a great window to their grows. One of the reasons I'm now sure I want to start indoor gardening, is the inspiration that's come from watching guys like Greengenes among many others on YT. But again, as a beginner with no experience, I have a LOT to learn already without the additional challenges of managing ballasts. That will no doubt come later, once I have some of the fundamentals down. And I was initially very LED oriented as I'm concerned about stealth (both heat and sound management) and also would like to keep my electricity bills under control, so the Sun Systems setup looks interesting for someone like me as it checks all the boxes, as well as being nicely priced!
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Yeah a lot of what you're asking is a judgement call and tough to call when you're making the decision. You're doing what I and a lot of others did/do, watching different grows/styles/footprints and making a call based on your situation. Everyone has their unique reasons for doing things and variables that can affect your decision.

e.g. the AT600, some would argue could cover a bigger area, like some 1000w hps folks cover off 5x5, some 4x4. That's a decision you have to make as a grower, my take is maximize the footprint but don't go overboard or you'll loose the intensity and may end up with lower yield. So with an LEC Sun System (reflectors) imo going beyond 3x3 you'd likely loose some density/coverage and may be lowering your overall yield. So if I had been stuck with a 4x4 or 4x8' footprint I may have made a different decision or added some LED's to cover off the edges. As it turns out, my room is 4ft W x 9.5ft L, I don't like a crowded room and need some space for maintenance so the 3ft. wide footprint is good for me, 2 of them cover 3x6' and leave me some room on the end to do some smaller grows with LED's later.

Right now, I'm still new to these LEC's and trying to determine whether the 3x3 is the best footprint, I think the coverage is good in that space but we'll see when I weigh out this run I just pulled. But, would I gain covering say 2.5 x 2.5 with more intensity in a smaller footprint? I'd have to try it and with same strains to tell for sure. I'll have an idea once I weigh this run as I ran the same strains first round but only 2 plants so they had more intensity/coverage per plant/sq. ft. These last one's were bigger plants so I'll allow for that and judge which yield was better overall.

The AT600 are arguably the highest end of the LED options and high end LED's, whether Apache, A51, or DIY COBs are more expensive per watt, typically in the $3+/watt range. All are different configs and cover different footprints. Why I say these LEC's are a bargain, the bundled LEC Sun Systems work out to about $1.60/watt on the 315w and have similar efficiencies like CRI, low heat. So with a room that can handle these LEC's I'm getting more bang for the buck. But the LEC's aren't for everyone, the LED's have an advantage in certain configs like low height tents as they don't need as much head room and throw off slightly less heat. If I had a lower/smaller room I probably would have gone with A51's.
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They are more expensive for initial cost but quickly pay back those costs from electric usage, that AT600 is a 1000w hps EQUIVILENT, it will grow as much marijuana as a 1000w light and it pulls around 650-700 watts not to mention the quality of buds is higher.
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Heavy Consumer said:
Yeah, I've been following his threads. He's got lots of nice looking buds in that garden and I love all these grow vid's that members share. Watching them can be a great window to their grows. One of the reasons I'm now sure I want to start indoor gardening, is the inspiration that's come from watching guys like Greengenes among many others on YT. But again, as a beginner with no experience, I have a LOT to learn already without the additional challenges of managing ballasts. That will no doubt come later, once I have some of the fundamentals down. And I was initially very LED oriented as I'm concerned about stealth (both heat and sound management) and also would like to keep my electricity bills under control, so the Sun Systems setup looks interesting for someone like me as it checks all the boxes, as well as being nicely priced!
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Sounds like you have things covered. Good thing is that if you stick with either the LEC's or top-end LED's there's little downside with either decision. Lots of the LED grows around and more of these Elite Agro's popping up to help make up your mind. Good luck but you'll do well with any of these options, no worries.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
GroErr said:
Sounds like you have things covered. Good thing is that if you stick with either the LEC's or top-end LED's there's little downside with either decision. Lots of the LED grows around and more of these Elite Agro's popping up to help make up your mind. Good luck but you'll do well with any of these options, no worries.
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Can you use the LEC in any hood you want?
 
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