Led driver issue EARTH LEAKAGE

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George2324

Well-Known Member
I'm in the middle of designing my led system and i have just found out a potential problem that will derail the entire thing...

I have had a new circuit installed to supply up to 20,000 watts into a new room..

But the main circuit has an RCD rated for 30ma...

Problem is each meanwell driver will leak a circuit amount of earth and I'm 90% sure that after you have 3 drivers the accumulative leakage would constantly trip the RCD...

Is anyone an electrician on here?

Obviously I couldn't tell the electrician what it was for so he installed it all correctly for 20,000 watts with a good back story...

But obviously he didn't know it would be for drivers so he didn't do anything with the RCD..

What are my options?
 
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1212ham

Well-Known Member
I was surprised to read that so I checked my Meanwell, 16ma at 60V. You might write Meanwell if no one here has a solution or explanation.
 
greg nr

greg nr

Well-Known Member
You could take out the rcd, or put one in with lower sensitivity. Yours is a high sensitivity model by the sound of it. They also sell medium and low sensitivity rcd's.

Maybe just call the trician back and tell him you screwed up, that there will be machinery in the room and you need one with lower sensitivity.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
The RCD sounds like a gfpe and not a gfci, so 30ma is standard for equipment protection. Have you perused the Meanwell Datasheet?

http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/differences-between-gfci-idci-and-gfpe

The basic definition of a ground-fault circuit-interrupter (GFCI) is a general-use device whose function is to interrupt the electric circuit to a load within an established period of time. There is a Class A GFCI that trips when a ground fault current exceeds 5 milliamps and there is a Class B GFCI that trips when a ground fault current exceeds 20 milliamps.
[Class B = Underwater Swimming Pools, personal note]

Ground fault protection equipment (GFPE) can either consist of an equipment leakage current interrupter (ELCI) or ground fault sensing and relaying equipment.

An ELCI is a device intended to provide leakage current protection in electrical appliances and electrical utilization equipment. This device will open all ungrounded conductors of the supply circuit to electrical equipment if the current in excess of the trip current occurs between live parts and the grounded enclosure or other grounded parts of the system.

Again, it does not take the place of the branch circuit overcurrent protection device in the circuit. Section 426-28 requires ground fault protection of equipment for fixed outdoor electric deicing and snow-melting equipment and Section 427-22 requires the same for electric heat tracing and heating panels. The trip ratings for these devices are usually in the 30 milliamp and higher range (anything higher than the 6 milliamps for a Class A GFCI device).

Ground-fault sensing and relaying equipment is intended for use in power distribution systems rated at 600 volts maximum. These devices are considered to be equipment protection devices and not personnel protection devices. They operate to cause a disconnecting means to function at a predetermined minimum value of ground fault in accordance with the NEC.

Ground-fault protection of equipment is further defined in the NEC in Article 100 as “a system intended to provide protection of equipment from damaging line-to-ground fault currents by operating to cause a disconnecting means to open all ungrounded conductors of the faulted circuit. This protection is provided at current levels less than those required to protect conductors from damage through the operation of a supply circuit overcurrent protection device.”

An example of this type of protection requirement is found in Section 230-95 of the NEC. Section 230-95 requires solidly grounded wye electrical services of more than 150 volts to ground but not exceeding 600 volts phase-to-phase with main disconnecting means rated at 1000 amperes or more, to be provided with GFPE. The setting of the GFPE must not be greater than 1200 amperes and the maximum time delay before operation shall not exceed one second for ground-fault currents of 3000 amperes or greater. It is plain to see by these values that this system is not designed for personnel protection.

 
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George2324

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's that simple to just increase the ma rating of a rcb as it's at that ma for a reason.

If live voltage travels through a human body earth leakage happens at around this range.

Say I touch the wire... 32ma occurs and RCD trips saving my life.

If I increase the RCD to higher... I touch the wire... I'm dead.

I don't think any qualified electrician would do that putting lives at risk.
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
George2324 said:
I don't think it's that simple to just increase the ma rating of a mcb as it's at that ma for a reason.

If live voltage travels through a human body earth leakage happens at around this range.

Say I touch the wire... 32ma occurs and RCD trips saving my life.

If I increase the RCD to higher... I touch the wire... I'm dead.

I don't think any qualified electrician would do that putting lives at risk.
Click to expand...
Personal protection should trip between 4-6ma. If it trips at 30ma or more it is equipment protecting......
 
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
George2324 said:
Yeah the extract from the manual you just posted went straight over my head
Click to expand...
George2324 said:
Ah right ok you know more than me :)

So my RCD won't save any lives anyway?
Click to expand...
George2324 said:
Ah right ok you know more than me :)


So my RCD won't save any lives anyway?
Click to expand...
The RCD, if it is an 30ma GFPE, isn't meant for Personal Protection and is basically an add on to any circuit for a conductor. That's it.

Then there are different types of Personal Protection RCDs:

Ground Fault
Arc Fault
 
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George2324

Well-Known Member
Abiqua said:
Let me read thru the datasheet and see if I can find something.........:peace:
Click to expand...
Cheers I appreciate it :) I have no problem calling someone back out and saying I need it rewiring for a server room maybe.. if that helps..

It's hard to know what cover story to give for this haha.

On a 230v circuit do you know if a 10mm2 cable is enough to carry 12000w 12 hours a day safely without overheating?
 
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George2324

Well-Known Member
On my install cirt it says 12000w would be ok and up to 20,000 he said however... I didn't tell him 12 hours a day 12 on 12 off as that would be obvious he just knew it was max 12000w
 
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