LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
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Fonzarelli
Active Member
^^^^^^^^^^^lmfao
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I've been wanting to set up a DIY LED fixture for awhile now. There's just so much that I don't know when it comes to thermal resistance, LED drivers, C/W for a heatsink, etc. I added a bunch of DIY LED to my shopping cart the other day and it totaled $300. Yeah, it's true they are going to last 10 times longer, but if you don't do it right the first time there goes my $300. I've read pages and pages of info on it, but when it comes down to putting it all together it gets a little iffy.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
You are on the right track. There are things both do better than the other. OSRAM/CREE 660s would pay for themselves over time v replacing 660s every 6 months
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Check out www.rapidled.com They have new kit coming out, OR, you can buy individual parts (including predrilled heat sinks). I prefer multiple longer narrow heat sinks
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
and ive heard you, but all these tests you speak of, like its a fact set in stone. you need to take in account the variables FIRST off being the fact these tests where not done with cannabis is a great place to start. all im getting at is use the plant as your benchmark and not the scientific research papers.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
There are these new LEDs that have 4 x 3w LEDs already soldered onto a MCPCB board in a circle. That means they are 12w each. Probably are going to get a little hotter than having only 1 x 3w'er on a star board but it saves a lot of money and time. The only thing is I don't know how to size up a heat sink and fan to them. It's going to be $300 for a 150w setup, plus $100 for a driver or around there. 156 V because they are 3v each forward current. So 156v and 156w driven at 700mA. I guess this isn't the right thread to find out where to get the driver, but that's where I'm at anyway. I can't justify hitting the buy now button when I still don't know how to power the lights lol.
Whats the new kit at rapidled? I've seen all the websites that offer them already, but they don't have what I'm after.
Fonz, Pet is referring to the new solderless kits from RapidLED. They should be released within the next couple weeks. I think if you're interested in a DIY panel, this would be the path of least resistance - no soldering, no mess, just plug and play. All you have to do is mount the stars to the heatsink with thermal adhesive and connect the LEDs to the terminal connectors. I've looked at the instructions and it looks really easy, too easy. If you opt for the predrilled sink, you can just use some arctic silver and screw the stars down. Also, these kits are mostly for reefers and fish tanks, meaning they only include royal blue/white in the kits. I've e-mailed them in the past about this and they told me a custom color order (to include red/far reds) wouldn't be a problem.
Pet, I prefer the narrow/longer sinks as well. Excellent alternative to the expensive $30 red bulbs.
Pet, I prefer the narrow/longer sinks as well. Excellent alternative to the expensive $30 red bulbs.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Oh ok, I see what you're talking about now. If you guys are looking for a 660nm alternative and not wanting to do the mess around there is always the kessil h150 reds at $170 a piece. 32w with penetrative power. I'm running 4 in a 2x2 ft cabinet along side a mh with great results. I've used blue T5's along side them and although it works, the reds are a lot more penetrative and you end up getting more red than blue to the bottom inside leaves. Not sure if it matters though. I'm not to sure about the Kessils though as I've had a couple of them stop working already. At least they have a warranty. I sometimes wish I would have just put the money towards a DIY setup and said f' it to all the problems and expenses I've had up to this point.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
Ok you guys. I received my new blue lamps and I am quite happy at the findings.
Here is a photo of 3 lamps. 1 Hamilton 460 Royal Blue Actinic, 1 Giesemann Actinic Plus, and 1 TrueLumen 460 Actinic.
The SPD I received from CurrentUSA is correct. The lamp contains only 460nm phosphor in it and the photo I have uploaded shows how much more lighter blue it is than the other 2 lamps. The Hamilton 460 Royal has additional 440/420nm phosphor in it and it's a tad darker blue than the Truelumen 460 actinic. The Giesmann Actinic Plus has even more of the 420, 440 phosphor less of the 460 and is the darkest of the 3 lamps. I am very pleased with the Truelumen 460 Actinic and will be running 2 of them along with 2 UVL 660nm to test out my 460nm hypothesis.
In my other fixture I will run the Hamilton 460 to see if the additional lower wavelength 440/420 blue has any kind of benefit or if the plants prefer the 460nm light better. I'm already seeing the plants reach towards the 460 Truelumen so I doubt it will even be a contest.
Here is the photo of the 3 lamps side by side. From left to right, Hamilton 460, Giesemann actinic +, Truelumen 460
Here are the SPD's in the same order for each lamp,
The hamilton SPD is quite small but you can see the added 440/420 to the left of the 460 peak where as the Truelumen is just one big 460 peak.
Here is a photo of 3 lamps. 1 Hamilton 460 Royal Blue Actinic, 1 Giesemann Actinic Plus, and 1 TrueLumen 460 Actinic.
The SPD I received from CurrentUSA is correct. The lamp contains only 460nm phosphor in it and the photo I have uploaded shows how much more lighter blue it is than the other 2 lamps. The Hamilton 460 Royal has additional 440/420nm phosphor in it and it's a tad darker blue than the Truelumen 460 actinic. The Giesmann Actinic Plus has even more of the 420, 440 phosphor less of the 460 and is the darkest of the 3 lamps. I am very pleased with the Truelumen 460 Actinic and will be running 2 of them along with 2 UVL 660nm to test out my 460nm hypothesis.
In my other fixture I will run the Hamilton 460 to see if the additional lower wavelength 440/420 blue has any kind of benefit or if the plants prefer the 460nm light better. I'm already seeing the plants reach towards the 460 Truelumen so I doubt it will even be a contest.
Here is the photo of the 3 lamps side by side. From left to right, Hamilton 460, Giesemann actinic +, Truelumen 460
Here are the SPD's in the same order for each lamp,
The hamilton SPD is quite small but you can see the added 440/420 to the left of the 460 peak where as the Truelumen is just one big 460 peak.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I would say this thread is a little in the dark. No offense. It's amazing what a little open minded googling can do. This link may open your mind up to the idea I've been going after a bit. Follow Weezard's posts and respond please. It doesn't really sound like any other wavelengths are necessary except for 460 and 660. I'm not totally set on this idea yet as I still have my own experimenting to do, but Weezard has a few photos that are turning me into more of a believer now.
[url]http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/198437-need-help-wavelength-spectrum-led.html
[/URL]
http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/167881-calling-out-weezard-led-advice.html
[url]http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/198437-need-help-wavelength-spectrum-led.html
[/URL]
http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/167881-calling-out-weezard-led-advice.html
Fonzarelli
Active Member
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
This study badly needs at least one thing: Temps throughout the grow. Over 70F, radishes do not fatten up. I wonder of they accounted for that, as I see no mention of it. If nothing else, this makes the study somewhat incomplete. There's also a lack of a comparison against trying to hit the whole PAR range proportionately. I haven't read through the 12 page thread you linked yet. It's a bit much to hunt out the info you're referring to, no offense. I'll try to get to it, but life has a way of distracting me.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I think something changed after you got it then. Jeff sent me the SPD for the 660 bulbs, and they match fonz's SPD. Could you throw yours up? They're on the market now. Plus, this bears some scrutiny; your results may differ from ours if the outputs vary. That sounds like UVL may be pulling a fast one.
Fonzarelli
Active Member
This is getting really interesting. I read through all 20 pages and it looks like some plants actually require green light in larger amounts. Lettuce being one of them. According to a few of the people over at the Cannabis boards, even some strains of Cannabis require green light. Some strains just do not do well under red/blue leds. I've been running into that same kind of issue. My Lemon Skunk, Lavender and Bubblegum seem to love the red/blue T5 lighting I'm giving them, but my Sour Diesel and Blueberry starts getting twisted leaves unless I use regular 6500k daylight lamps along with the reds and blues. Before, I thought this was due to having to deep of blue wavelength and not enough 460nm, but the more I play around and read I'm starting to think that some Cannabis strains actually need the green and other wavelengths. Crazy. It just doesn't add up. It just might not be possible to create an "all around" universal spectrum for all plants.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Weez goes way back with leds, so I tend to believe what he thinks, BUT, I think you still want ~ 20% 5-600
I'm seeing this thread getting jacked toward LEDs and that's not right. Fonz why not start a new LED thread based on WEEZES ideas? FYI I am having trouble finding his pics beyond the first one that you provided the link for
Fonzarelli
Active Member
I'm just now starting to understand half of the posts you have made about 630nm and 730nm and all that crazy shit. It's all coming together. I didn't realize you were a genius.
This has definitely put a roadblock in my movement towards a solid idea. It's as if all these wavelengths exist in a higher plane of existence and the plants are responding to the actual "light mixtures" as opposed to the separate wavelengths. I really wanted to come up with a way to illuminate my garden for all plants, not just cannabis and have them all be happy under one type of light mixture. Now it seems like even some strains of Cannabis prefer different types of light. WTF?
So far, out of all the experiments I've done, I've seen crazy things happen with 2 types of light mixtures. Either straight white/red mixture of Florasuns and 6500K lamps which cause excessive stretching and weak thin stems, but also extreme growth speeds and leaf diameter, OR,
straight red/blue mixture of 460 and 630/660 UVLs. All my plants are liking the red/blue mixture better EXCEPT for the Sour D and Blueberry. I don't fucking get it! Can't they all just get along and be happy? And then you have NIR. All I can say is I'm going to stick to the Red/Blue I'm running right now and will post the progression here. So far, really fucking great. I really don't think there is a sure-fire way of using the "books" to come up with the perfect spectrum. It's all trial and error. With that being said, for whoever is lurking here, try your own light mixtures and ideas and post them here. Try not to follow what everyone else is doing to the T because like I said, it's all a big damn guessing game right now. Yeah sure, what people have already posted in this thread 100 pages ago IS working just fine, but so do 6500k lamps, MH, HPS, and CFLs! Keep the ideas flowing people! I won't except mediocrity as the answer anymore.
canadian1969
Well-Known Member
I thought the whole purpose of this thread was to optimize plant growth and potency through tailoring your spectral outputs for your plants, I think it's reasonable to assume some strains will perform better than others under certain lighting conditions. If you are looking for a single ubiquitous lighting solution you are defeating the whole point of this thread. No?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Fonz: SHIT! I had a long ass answer for you and it got deleted when I tried to figure out how to make an actual degree sign. MrFr.
No genius, but an ardent student of spectrums. It took me a long time looking at PAR charts to realize what most mfgs IMHO misinterpret. They see R/B as being so dominant that they ASSume the 5-600 range isn't necessary. I see it as a catalyst. If you don't add a little baking powder to pancake mix they won't rise. You can eat them, but they are more like pita bread or soft tacos
I think it is simple to make led rails with a toggle to add a few more R/B as required by the strain. Hans panel seems ripe for this
No genius, but an ardent student of spectrums. It took me a long time looking at PAR charts to realize what most mfgs IMHO misinterpret. They see R/B as being so dominant that they ASSume the 5-600 range isn't necessary. I see it as a catalyst. If you don't add a little baking powder to pancake mix they won't rise. You can eat them, but they are more like pita bread or soft tacos
I think it is simple to make led rails with a toggle to add a few more R/B as required by the strain. Hans panel seems ripe for this