Let's talk hypocrisy...

redivider

Well-Known Member
Democrats see GOP hypocrisy in health care debate


  • Buzz






By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer Charles Babington, Associated Press Writer – Fri Dec 25, 4:01 pm ET
WASHINGTON – Republican senators attacking the cost of a Democratic health care bill showed far different concerns six years ago, when they approved a major Medicare expansion that has added tens of billions of dollars to federal deficits.
The inconsistency — or hypocrisy, as some call it — has irked Democrats, who claim that their plan will pay for itself with higher taxes and spending cuts and cite the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office for support.
By contrast, when Republicans controlled the House, Senate and White House in 2003, they overcame Democratic opposition to add a deficit-financed prescription drug benefit to Medicare. The program will cost a half-trillion dollars over 10 years, or more by some estimates.
With no new taxes or spending offsets accompanying the Medicare drug program, the cost has been added to the federal debt.
All current GOP senators, including the 24 who voted for the 2003 Medicare expansion, oppose the health care bill that's backed by President Barack Obama and most congressional Democrats. Some Republicans say they don't believe the CBO's projections that the health care overhaul will pay for itself. As for their newfound worries about big government health expansions, they essentially say: That was then, this is now.
Six years ago, "it was standard practice not to pay for things," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. "We were concerned about it, because it certainly added to the deficit, no question." His 2003 vote has been vindicated, Hatch said, because the prescription drug benefit "has done a lot of good."
Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, said those who see hypocrisy "can legitimately raise that issue." But he defended his positions in 2003 and now, saying the economy is in worse shape and Americans are more anxious.
Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, said simply: "Dredging up history is not the way to move forward." She noted that she fought unsuccessfully to offset some of President George W. Bush's deep tax cuts at the time.
But for now, she said, "it's a question of what's in this package," which the Senate passed Thursday in a party-line vote. The Senate bill still must be reconciled with a House version.
The political situation is different now, Snowe said, because "we're in a tough climate and people are angry and frustrated."
Some conservatives have no patience for such explanations.
"As far as I am concerned, any Republican who voted for the Medicare drug benefit has no right to criticize anything the Democrats have done in terms of adding to the national debt," said Bruce Bartlett, an official in the administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. He made his comments in a Forbes article titled "Republican Deficit Hypocrisy."
Bartlett said the 2003 Medicare expansion was "a pure giveaway" that cost more than this year's Senate or House health bills will cost. More important, he said, "the drug benefit had no dedicated financing, no offsets and no revenue-raisers. One hundred percent of the cost simply added to the federal budget deficit."
The pending health care bills in Congress, he noted, are projected to add nothing to the deficit over 10 years.
Other lawmakers who voted for the 2003 Medicare expansion include the Senate's top three Republican leaders, all sharp critics of the Obama-backed health care plans: Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, Jon Kyl of Arizona and Lamar Alexander of Tennessee. Eleven Democratic senators voted with them back then.
The 2003 vote in the House was even more divisive. It resulted in a nearly three-hour roll call in which GOP leaders put extraordinary pressure on colleagues to back the prescription drug addition to Medicare. In the end, 204 Republicans and 16 Democrats voted for the bill.
Democrats certainly have indulged in deficit spending over the years. They say they have been more responsible over the last two decades, however. Bill Clinton's administration was largely constrained by a pay-as-you-go law, requiring most tax cuts or program expansions to be offset elsewhere with tax increases and/or spending cuts.
Clinton ended his presidency with a budget surplus. But it soon was wiped out by a sagging economy, the Iraq war, GOP tax cuts and the lapsing of the pay-as-you-go restrictions.
Obama and many Democrats in Congress have vowed to restore those restrictions. But they waived them this year for programs, including heavy stimulus spending meant to pull the economy from the severe recession of 2008-09.
The 2010 deficit is expected to reach $1.5 trillion, and the accumulated federal debt now exceeds $12 trillion. When the Republican-led Congress passed the Medicare expansion in 2003, the deficit was $374 billion, and was projected to hit $525 billion the following year, in part because of the new prescription drug benefit for seniors.
Some GOP lawmakers cite these numbers in arguing that their current worries about heavy government spending are legitimate, even if they voted for the deficit-financed Medicare bill in 2003.
But Judy Feder, an analyst with the Democratic-leaning Center for American Progress, said these Republicans had their chance and blew it. In the second Bush administration, she said, "there was a total elimination of any kind of pay-for responsibility."
Those responsible should now show some humility, she said.




:hump::hump::hump:


this same logic moves much of the republican party... it's pure hypocrisy, that's right, i said it, HYPOCRISY........ talk about hand-outs and buying votes and what not... the biggest demographic population in the US is baby-boomers......... hypocrites......
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
I think we all can agree it is party over principle in Washington. But the hypocrisy from this debate doesn't end in Washington. Where were all the tea parties and marches on Washington? Where were all these cries of SOCIALISM?
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
this same logic moves much of the republican party... it's pure hypocrisy, that's right, i said it, HYPOCRISY........ talk about hand-outs and buying votes and what not... the biggest demographic population in the US is baby-boomers......... hypocrites......
I agree. It is hypocrisy.
I think we all can agree it is party over principle in Washington. But the hypocrisy from this debate doesn't end in Washington. Where were all the tea parties and marches on Washington? Where were all these cries of SOCIALISM?
Back then they were Fair Tax rallies across the country and at the Capital.

And talk radio was bristling with opposition to the new entitlement program.
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
And talk radio was bristling with opposition to the new entitlement program.

No it wasn't!!! I have listed to Rush almost daily for the better part of 10 years along with others like Sean Hannity, etc.. It was too close to an election for them to risk complaining. Party over principle all the way and Bush got reelected. When it was mentioned by the occasional conservative who had a little bit of principled backbone like Neal Boortz, it had nowhere near the ferocity and doom and gloom you hear now.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
The Tea Parties started in 2007.
Some say as early as 2006.
But they were not what they are now.
The Hypocracy is why Ron Paul got and maintains alot of support.
Because in 30 years he has stood by his principles.
When the GOP has pandered to anti-Abortion people, guns rights people, and so forth.
The GOP has no intention of really doing anything.
The GOP pulls on peoples emotions about hot button items just like the Dems.
But they love their big government their spending and their policies as much as the Dems.
At least the Dems generaly say "we are gonna raise taxes."
At least the Dems Say "we want more government intrusion in your life."
So yeah the GOP is hypocritical.

Its all theatrics.
Just like Joe Wilson calling Obama a lier durring his speach in congress.
Ol' Joe got tons of money and support from the GOP masses.
But Ol' Joe supported every big government Bush Policy.
But if your a fiscal conservative who wants government size limited
you have no choice you have to go with the GOP.
 

clydec

Member
Its all theatrics.
Just like Joe Wilson calling Obama a lier durring his speach in congress.
Ol' Joe got tons of money and support from the GOP masses.
But Ol' Joe supported every big government Bush Policy.
But if your a fiscal conservative who wants government size limited
you have no choice you have to go with the GOP.
:confused::confused::confused:

Sorry, I thought George W. Bush was a member of the Republican Party.

If 2000-08 is what the kids call fiscal conservatism and limited government nowadays, give me back the glory days of Jimmy Carter. :spew:
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
No it wasn't!!! I have listed to Rush almost daily for the better part of 10 years along with others like Sean Hannity, etc.. It was too close to an election for them to risk complaining. Party over principle all the way and Bush got reelected. When it was mentioned by the occasional conservative who had a little bit of principled backbone like Neal Boortz, it had nowhere near the ferocity and doom and gloom you hear now.
Limbaugh and Hannity are cheerleaders. I don't listen to either one so I could not say for certain what their position was.

You mentioned Boortz, who I do listen to and he was against it. Likewise Herman Cain. As were Eric Harley and Greg McNamera. And let's not forget Matt Drudge who was still doing his radio show at the time.

The Heritage Foundation came out against it saying it was chock full of unintended consequences.
 

LowRider82

Well-Known Member
both parties are in it to win it. Nothing more, when was the last time they listened to the people instead of just passing laws just to pass them. Congress has grown out of control period. who cares when the tea parties started, there here now because the PEOPLE have gotten fed up with the gov. Do you not agree the gov is out of control. Medicaid shouldn't be, it was going bankrupt then and is going bankrupt now. All social programs are going bankrupt. Its a never ending game. Hell the gov can't even run the post office at a profit. Yet they want to jam down health care. Alot of countries are starting to rethink there health care cause in reality its sub par health care. Can't just get an MRI when you need it, gotta wait etc, etc..... We need to vote ALL the IDIOTS out on BOTH SIDE of THE ILSE. Even the INDEPENDENANTS and put TERM LIMITS IN
 

jeff f

New Member
dont think its hypocracy, just plain stupid. bush tried sucking up to kennedy and passed a bullshit bill. every conservative i know on tv radio etc. was loudly against the bill. very very loudly against. as i recall, most republicans voted against the bill. i might be wrong but i think thats the way it went down.
 

shadowalker

Member
Here is the funny part in the US we have red and blue states. The soviets had just red.......or one choice........the two party system in the united states is a figment of our imagination, it appears that we have a choice, but the red and blue are bitches to the same master.....bought and paid for........."the city of London"
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
dont think its hypocracy, just plain stupid. bush tried sucking up to kennedy and passed a bullshit bill. every conservative i know on tv radio etc. was loudly against the bill. very very loudly against. as i recall, most republicans voted against the bill. i might be wrong but i think thats the way it went down.

Check your facts because you are wrong on all accounts. Kennedy had nothing to do with it. The bill was introduced by Dennis Hastert, a Republican. In a Republican controled house. Most Republicans DID vote for it. Conservatives were NOT loudly against this bill and they nominated Bush for a second term anyway!
 

kappainf

Well-Known Member
Fuck the gov't!!! Both parties suck, I will not vote for anyone who has ever held any positions in gov't. We need to start over, clean house. Fuck the global elitist agenda. Revolution!! I wonder what it would take for people to come together and fight against the gov't.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Fuck the gov't!!! Both parties suck, I will not vote for anyone who has ever held any positions in gov't. We need to start over, clean house. Fuck the global elitist agenda. Revolution!! I wonder what it would take for people to come together and fight against the gov't.
Empty grocery stores.
 

klmmicro

Well-Known Member
George Bush may have been a Republican in name, but he was no CONSERVATIVE. He championed the spending of billions of dollars, but it could not have happened without the senate's backing. They are actually more guilty than the Pres as they could have stopped all of the money going out. Congress could have stopped any military action. Now that we have a single party in power, they do not even need to debate...they can just do what they want. We are at last without ANY representation.
 

medicineman

New Member
Revolution!! I wonder what it would take for people to come together and fight against the gov't.
When they stop funding social Security, I'll bet a lot of old farts, me included, will hit the pavement with their weapons. Maybe we'll just attack repukes, elites and politicians in general. WTF, cut off my retirement and I'll have to come out of retirement, change my MOS and become Infantry 1A again. The rebellion of the old farts will go down in history. Don't know how it will come out, but it will be on the 6'Oclock news :mad:
 

ViRedd

New Member
^^^ How can we fight against the government when we continually ask for more government cheese? Hoping for higher taxes on "The Rich" to ease one's envy is hardly a revolution, Med. :lol:
 
Top