dbkick
Well-Known Member
Uh yeah. ceramic hps (white hps) or camera tricks? Those don't appear hps by looking at them.
Light Intensity; LED vs HID
- Thread starter BM9AGS
- Start date
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
Oh,! I can tell you this much. They look the shape of HPS & that is what would make the most sense to use.
When I take pictures in my garden with my flash on, it looks white like that, but when my flash is off then it's 22k yellow.
& that's just my cell phone.If Remos camera guy is using a light, I'd imagine it woukd do the same as my camera little light!
Just my guess though. HPS Hotrilux is what is most likely used. Has all the highest ratings & has been proven to be "THE" bulb to use in a mass application.
That's not a controversial thing like LED.
dbkick
Well-Known Member
Funny, hortilux is doing the white hps. But the lighting in that video seemed to be coming from the lamps in the parabolics that do indeed look like horti super hps but they're white. Whites aren't even released yet in 600 watt though and they resemble a MH outer envelope more.
PPF.
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
Ok! Would you rather have more PPF from each LES if you could?
And why wouldn't you?
Please, try to take into account, the real-life advantages to doing so or not.
I woukd do this if I DIY.
Who determined what was wasteful after a certain point? Were they growing weed or was what was deemed most efficient based on specs on components?
It's a huge drop were experiencing using our COBs so soft.
Doesn't anyone want to know if this drop will remain in such a high percentage once your LES is turned up higher?
An HPS bulb is a small total LES w/tons of light released.
An LED COB is probobly half the LES size or more & yet comes in @ less then a 1/4 in output!
Am I correct here? If I am, then doesn't it make sense that the only way you're going to increase your depth to martch that of an HPS , is to have equal amounts of light being released from the same size LES?
Now, that is not possible because it is differant technology.
But there certainly is allota room to add power & people choose not to.
If the COBs ran at half the output per bulb per dimension & you put 2 close together, then I believe you would match the depth of your intensity to HPS.
Now that you have done that, spread them out to be 600watt HPS Equivalents.
Now what you have should be an LED garden with a high PPFD & better depth With less drop to your PPFD readings at differant heights. Just like my HPS room.
It has 600's all close together on the edges & wide hood 100's in the middle, also butted up together.
Replicate your output les dimension/output as best you can.
EDITTED just EDITTED to attempt to make more sense. I see what you meant I think. I am medicated from my surgery n am a lil sloppy. But you must know what I'm saying?
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JorgeGonzales
Well-Known Member
PPFD measures intensity. Please, go read up at any source your trust, since this site is full of charlatans and faux led gurus who don't know what they are talking about. But every time you open your mouth the words you string together make no sense because you don't understand their meaning.
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
Ok! I've read all the meanings along time ago. Used to know them all perfect in context as theirs soooo many more to take into account then the ever so popular PPF & PPFD. But when I did use them in my sentences (in proper context BTW), most people's responses were like I was a know it all. So, I've since abandoned all the fancy talk & try to speak in layman terms.
With that said. You cannot understand what in trying to say? I have made it as simple to understand as possible.
For everyone else out there that might not know everything to be a viable person contributing to this thread, (as I'm just an idiot in the eyes of JorgeGonzales) here is a link to the old BML lights. This company explains everything about PAR & all terms used to describe it very well on their web-site.
BML Horticulture
www.bmlhorticulture.com
Taught me a bunch about 1.5 year ago & is still one of the best sources I've seen for this info.
It's not that hard to understand and I can't understand why JG seems to think I sound so stupid. But yet can understand even this simplest of broken down explanations.!??
Some people I guess!
Its a matter of finding the sweet spot between efficiency (lower current higher hardware cost) vs net light output (lower hardware cost higher current).
One of my primary objectives in my diy builds is to lower my electric cost as much as I can within my hardware budget. There are other reasons to go with different size leds, both small and big. I am using smaller cobs to replace my T5HOs where I don't have much vertical height, and larger cobs with lenses for flowering rooms with lots of vertical space.
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
I feel a none weed grower determined that so called "Sweet Spot" & everyone road it away to the sunset.
Would you mind sharing some pics of one of your build & how your plants like it? Thanks. Always up from learning something from other FELLOW growers. Can I see you rooms with lots of vertical space you speak of or the one you replaced your T-5 with that has less head room?
Do you understand the question I am asking everyone? About raising your PPFD Levels at all heights by increasing the output?
@JorgeGonzales , WHY DO YOU TALK SHIT TO ME???? I am a grower with tons of hands on experience with big plants in large rooms. I speak from growing experience & have taken a huge interest in lighting & spectrum early in. So, I'm NO dummy. I've also done tons of reading & understand almost everything you guys are talking about. I don't wire up my own lights but I do have spectral & growing experience more so then some of the most knowledgable people being heavily-Jocked on this Forum. Also gave used many differant approaches to growing for max yields & quality.
So, again, I ask why you talk shit?
Do you have more to offer? Do you think I have nothing to offer?
I wil bow out of this thread if you would like ok?
God forbid anyone questions the thought process behind the so called "Sweet Spot" many seem to defend do hard. Or do they because that is the approach their favorite vendor here took?
I really don't have much more to say anyways. But was hoping someone would discuss my questions so that maybe others could expand their minds to better options.
-For example: Even if you couldn't make your COBs last running them harder because you failed to cool them adequately, wouldn't you stand to make so much more money on your yield before they did blow that it would make sense to just replace them, similiar to what we do with our HPS bulbs every 3 grows?
Last I checked, HPS bulbs cost more then a 3590 cob.
No ones with me here hu????
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JungleTime
Well-Known Member
Well I saw when you posted this and I didnt want to comment but "turning up your cobs" defeats the purpose of running cobs. The softer you run them the more efficiency you get.
Anything above 1400ma is a stretch and defeats the purpose of running cobs. Once your running 1400ma even with 3590's your at 56% efficiency which is good but not THAT good.
If you want to talk about intensity, I used a shitty light meter app to look at the intensity. DIRECTLY under a 1000w (under its filament) its about 50,000-60,000 x10 LUX, or in other words 50k-60k foot candles. Right under a 3590 running 1400ma its about 50k-55k x10 LUX or 50k-55k foot candles.
So knowing this shit information I presented, lets talk about the intensity, Its the fucking same.
The cob has the advantage tho and ill explain why. A 1000w has a filament that is about 8 inches long give or take right? (Im not sure I'm guessing) So if you have 1000w of cobs, running at 1400ma, you then have 20 cobs which are about a inch in length each. Knowing this, two 1000w filament lengths together are about 16 inches. With cobs you have 20 inches of THE SAME intensity SPREAD OUT rather than having only 2 spots with the thousand watts.
I'll upload the screen shots from my shit light meter app tonight directly under a cob and directly under a thousand.
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
Thank you for respectfully adding useful information here!
Your information is not shit. Not saying any data is shit. All is good but should be taken into account with actual growing for full benifit is my only point there.
Just edited my last post. Would you mind reading it & getting back to me about cooling the COBs to make them last or simply replacing them every 3--5 runs if need be when they begin to diminish? They are cheaper then bulbs & if the driver is in tact, why not just switch em out? You'll be increasing your yields & could also grow bigger plants, I believe. Thank you!
Also, keep in mind that a cob shoots its light from only one side. A bulb does 360• & it's intensity will be best determined by accounting for the style reflector or hood being used. Like my little Phantom hood will put out A higher PPFD @ 12" then my Raptor.
I think we should put 2 COBs together @ 1/2 power (if trying to maintain said efficiency) to give you the reduction in PPFD drop. Wouldn't that make a differance? Do the same as DIY'rs do now with spreading them out, but double the light output from each set (acting as one), either by turning it up or adding another cob in the same place.
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
I believe this is why the Illumitex maintains its intensity. All sources are right next to each other. How could there be a drop.
I bet this company has minimal drop to their lights too!
cree cxb 3590 meanwell led grow light - The Most Powerful Grow Lights On The Planet
www.bcblondes.com › Cree-cxb-3590-le...
I bet Johnsons do well too. As well as Amare.
They all have one thing in common. HO lights by means of having a more powerful fixture. One that can be @ least a 600 watt HPS equivalent. Now spread them out.
Wouldn't that decrease the drop???
I bet this company has minimal drop to their lights too!
cree cxb 3590 meanwell led grow light - The Most Powerful Grow Lights On The Planet
www.bcblondes.com › Cree-cxb-3590-le...
I bet Johnsons do well too. As well as Amare.
They all have one thing in common. HO lights by means of having a more powerful fixture. One that can be @ least a 600 watt HPS equivalent. Now spread them out.
Wouldn't that decrease the drop???
JorgeGonzales
Well-Known Member
Why would this reduce PPFD drop?
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
More light output from one source.
I feel like everyone's overthinking it.
JungleTime
Well-Known Member
I get what your saying but personally I have only dealt with 1400ma. I've seen some grows with 700ma and also 1050. The best bang for your buck is 1400ma as you dont need as many cobs and heat sinks but I personally think the sweet spot is 1050ma or 1400ma. Running it at 1400ma does create some more heat but getting a little larger heat sink does allow it to dissipate heat a little quicker as a 42 inch 5.86 heat sink rather than the recommended 36-38inch can easily compensate for it.
I think GG has flowered under the same lights over a year or a little longer and the loss is very minimal unlike hps. I dont think cobs diminish at such a fast rate even if they are ran a little hotter, but I honestly dont know I just read and try not to forget shit too fast. All I know is that a 3590 ran at 1400ma is equivalent to a 1000w in intensity measuring with foot candles so I'm happy, cant say too much for 1050ma or 700ma. I know its a bit lower, but then you also have more points of light and that side light does add up.
That's really why warehouses can pull 2 to 3 pounds a light. They throw 20 de 1000w's in a room and it lights the whole bitch up due to side light. Home grows from my experience are different. We dont really have the option to run 10+ 1000w lights. You cant expect 1 gpw as in 2 pounds a light from hps unless you have a shit ton of side light from multiple light sources and know exactly what the fuck your doing. Everyone saying I produce more with hps is full of shit imo. I have yet to see a person get over .8 GPW in a home grow. Cobs can achieve 1gpw just because it spreads the light out in my experience.
Hybridway
Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me how to select a part of a reply I would like to quote rather then the whole thing? I tried erasing everything before & after the sentences I'm quoting but there's gotta be a better way. Thanks!
JungleTime, glad to see you understand what I am saying. I was beginning to think I was crazy or spoke another language. Ha!
Until someone can tell me why it's a bad idea, I'll be buying the HO units from Amare running their CXB3070's @ 70wstts & their CXB3590's @ 106 watts. With a 5 year warranty, I think I'm safe there.
Also going to build one soon. Does anyone know where I can buy the pre-made kits running harder with bigger sinks or is that not an option due to the popularity of running soft? I don't care if I have to pay $2 a watt. Same as a pre-made fixture. Just doing it for fun & so I can customize my layout. Got some great ideas.
JungleTime, glad to see you understand what I am saying. I was beginning to think I was crazy or spoke another language. Ha!
Until someone can tell me why it's a bad idea, I'll be buying the HO units from Amare running their CXB3070's @ 70wstts & their CXB3590's @ 106 watts. With a 5 year warranty, I think I'm safe there.
Also going to build one soon. Does anyone know where I can buy the pre-made kits running harder with bigger sinks or is that not an option due to the popularity of running soft? I don't care if I have to pay $2 a watt. Same as a pre-made fixture. Just doing it for fun & so I can customize my layout. Got some great ideas.
Resinhound
Well-Known Member
Honestly I get what hybrid is trying to say I think, basically that photons grow plants not efficiency.
In a way I kinda think gram per meter squared makes more sense than gpw.
In a way I kinda think gram per meter squared makes more sense than gpw.
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
photons are a direct result of efficiency .....its a great start, I think all growers would agree......the more red the more umol/s per joule, maybe that changes... more blue less umol/s, blah blah blah, but is it as efficient? YPF.....
Grams Per Kilowatt Hour, measures veg and ANY type of light source. Any kind of grid based system, doesn't take time into account.
All strains probably have a different sweet spot and changes with K temp too in some cases....grow more and more and more and more and more and more, then makes conclusions...I say...qualitative is nice with quantitative methods. We all have restrictions, but work as hard as you can.....
Sweet spot for what is worth is a pop culture references, it is not based on a metric imho....
Grams Per Kilowatt Hour, measures veg and ANY type of light source. Any kind of grid based system, doesn't take time into account.
All strains probably have a different sweet spot and changes with K temp too in some cases....grow more and more and more and more and more and more, then makes conclusions...I say...qualitative is nice with quantitative methods. We all have restrictions, but work as hard as you can.....
Sweet spot for what is worth is a pop culture references, it is not based on a metric imho....
...
99% of the agricultural world measures yield as weight/area.