Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

Status
Not open for further replies.
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
mmhumm

Republicans are the reason Sanders' bill to repeal Citizens United didn't go forward. Republicans are trying to eliminate Medicare and Medicaid. Yeah, Democrats are the problem.
Click to expand...
You and a few other people seem to believe money only influences Republicans. That's a scientific analysis that shows you're wrong, not that one was needed

That's how corruption works in America. If universal healthcare is the goal of the Democratic party, like you claim it is, and the rest of the Democrats who haven't cosponsored Sanders bill take issue with it, why haven't any of them sponsored/cosponsored other pieces of legislation that looks to enact it?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You and a few other people seem to believe money only influences Republicans. That's a scientific analysis that shows you're wrong, not that one was needed

That's how corruption works in America. If universal healthcare is the goal of the Democratic party, like you claim it is, and the rest of the Democrats who haven't cosponsored Sanders bill take issue with it, why haven't any of them sponsored/cosponsored other pieces of legislation that looks to enact it?
Click to expand...
You love that tactic of mischaracterizing somebody, don't you?

No. I don't believe what you say.

Sanders bill health care bill is going nowhere. It's already floating in the 2017 septic tank along with the failed Republican medical reform bills. Republicans killed the bill, not Democrats. Sanders bill attracted the most cosponsors (all Democrats, by the way) for a senate bill EVER. But Republican killed the bill. Republicans are the ones standing in the way. Can you understand? Republicans are the ones who are stopping Universal healthcare today. Republicans are the ones who stopped it. Do I have to point out that Republicans stopped Bernie's unfinished bill from moving forward? What do Democratic congressmen who follow the law regarding campaign donations have to do with Republicans stopping Sanders bill for Universal healthcare?

As far as money in campaigns go. I'm all for changing the law. So are Democratic congressmen. The last time this issue made it to the floor of the Senate, every Democratic caucus senator supported it. Where in the world do you get "big money corrupt Democrats" out of that? Not a single Democratic senator voted to kill that bill. Every Republican voted to kill it. Every Republican was against campaign finance reform. Every Republican. Can you see the trend?

I'm all for Justice Democrats and other groups promoting candidates who pledge to forego legal donations from corporations, PACs and big money donors. If this is such an important issue to voters, we should see those candidates win in the 2018 primaries. Nothing wrong with that. I think many will get pasted by campaigns that are better staffed and organized because they have more money to spend. Also because based upon the way they voted in the past 6 years, voters don't really seem to care about this issue as much as you seem to think they do. The primaries are the time to test your theory that foregoing legal campaign donations on principle is a winning tactic.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
You say the Dems platform has been universal coverage for the past 80 years, that Reps are standing in the way of it, so why are about half Dem senators choosing not to cosponsor Sanders' bill or sponsor one of their own that would enact it?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
You say the Dems platform has been universal coverage for the past 80 years, that Reps are standing in the way of it, so why are about half Dem senators choosing not to cosponsor Sanders' bill or sponsor one of their own that would enact it?
Click to expand...
Republicans killed the bill.

Why are you so fixated on unity around a badly written bill that was never going anywhere?

Getting back to your "corrupt democrat" rant. How does the fact that Republicans killed the bill make a case for corrupt Democrats?
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You love that tactic of mischaracterizing somebody, don't you?

No. I don't believe what you say.

Sanders bill health care bill is going nowhere. It's already floating in the 2017 septic tank along with the failed Republican medical reform bills. Republicans killed the bill, not Democrats. Sanders bill attracted the most cosponsors (all Democrats, by the way) for a senate bill EVER. But Republican killed the bill. Republicans are the ones standing in the way. Can you understand? Republicans are the ones who are stopping Universal healthcare today. Republicans are the ones who stopped it. Do I have to point out that Republicans stopped Bernie's unfinished bill from moving forward? What do Democratic congressmen who follow the law regarding campaign donations have to do with Republicans stopping Sanders bill for Universal healthcare?

As far as money in campaigns go. I'm all for changing the law. So are Democratic congressmen. The last time this issue made it to the floor of the Senate, every Democratic caucus senator supported it. Where in the world do you get "big money corrupt Democrats" out of that? Not a single Democratic senator voted to kill that bill. Every Republican voted to kill it. Every Republican was against campaign finance reform. Every Republican. Can you see the trend?

I'm all for Justice Democrats and other groups promoting candidates who pledge to forego legal donations from corporations, PACs and big money donors. If this is such an important issue to voters, we should see those candidates win in the 2018 primaries. Nothing wrong with that. I think many will get pasted by campaigns that are better staffed and organized because they have more money to spend. Also because based upon the way they voted in the past 6 years, voters don't really seem to care about this issue as much as you seem to think they do. The primaries are the time to test your theory that foregoing legal campaign donations on principle is a winning tactic.
Click to expand...
It's easy to oppose/support a piece of legislation when you're the minority party. The real test comes when you have full control of Washington. See the Repubs failed repeal of Obamacare as an example.

I will believe that the Dems support campaign finance reform when they have full control of both chambers and the White House and they actually get the job done. Until then I'm in the skeptic category....
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Republicans killed the bill.

Why are you so fixated on unity around a badly written bill that was never going anywhere?

Getting back to your "corrupt democrat" rant. How does the fact that Republicans killed the bill make a case for corrupt Democrats?
Click to expand...
I'm curious since you said they support it

So how do they support universal healthcare exactly if it doesn't show in the legislation they support?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I'm curious since you said they support it

So how do they support universal healthcare exactly if it doesn't show in the legislation they support?
Click to expand...
And now you misread. What I said they support:

As far as money in campaigns go. I'm all for changing the law. So are Democratic congressmen. The last time this issue made it to the floor of the Senate, every Democratic caucus senator supported it.

Underlining was added to help you read the sentence correctly.

The universal healthcare bill never made it to the floor for a vote. It was an incomplete bill, submitted without a price tag or the means to pay for it. It's hard to say why each and every democratic senator didn't line up to co-sponsor it. It is in fact the only bill ever to gain this many cosponsors. Include on that list the declaration of war against Germany and Japan. Why didn't every congressman cosponsor that? Is it because they didn't support the war?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
And now you misread. What I said they support:

As far as money in campaigns go. I'm all for changing the law. So are Democratic congressmen. The last time this issue made it to the floor of the Senate, every Democratic caucus senator supported it.

Underlining was added to help you read the sentence correctly.

The universal healthcare bill never made it to the floor for a vote. It was an incomplete bill, submitted without a price tag or the means to pay for it. It's hard to say why each and every democratic senator didn't line up to co-sponsor it. It is in fact the only bill ever to gain this many cosponsors. Include on that list the declaration of war against Germany and Japan. Why didn't every congressman cosponsor that? Is it because they didn't support the war?
Click to expand...
They don't have to support Sanders' version of the bill. Why haven't the ones that don't support it sponsor one of their own or cosponsor something else that looks to enact universal healthcare? You say that's been the Democratic platform for 80 years, so what can you point to as evidence that shows that? They should have something to show in support of it on their record, right?
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
They don't have to support Sanders' version of the bill. Why haven't the ones that don't support it sponsor one of their own or cosponsor something else that looks to enact universal healthcare? You say that's been the Democratic platform for 80 years, so what can you point to as evidence that shows that? They should have something to show in support of it on their record, right?
Click to expand...
Because symbolism is a waste of time.

Next time stop shitting on Democrats for the whole election and we might get some progressive policies passed.

Bernie is a populist politician, he does and says populist (but unrealistic things) so idiots like you will keep voting for him.

"Hello, is that the bank manager? Im a United States senator and I think you should give my wife the loan."
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Because symbolism is a waste of time.

Next time stop shitting on Democrats for the whole election and we might get some progressive policies passed.

Bernie is a populist politician, he does and says populist (but unrealistic things) so idiots like you will keep voting for him.

"Hello, is that the bank manager? Im a United States senator and I think you should give my wife the loan."
Click to expand...
So nothing, then? There's nothing in all these Democrats record that shows they support universal healthcare?

Then guess what, they don't support it. They just tell rubes like you they do and you eat it up and keep voting for them without the evidence.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top