Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Accepting donations isn't a corrupt act. It is actually necessary to stay in office.

Did you know that Democrats lost control of the Senate just weeks after every one of those Democrats were in support of repealing Citizen's United? Every Republican voted for filibustering Bernies proposed amendment to repeal CU. Yet you say Democrats are the problem.

Lost in space, you are.
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Offering those donations via tax deductible avenues is a complete travesty.

Accepting those donations is corrupt, just not illegal, because not everyone has the same dollars to vote with.

I can't believe you don't see this.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Offering those donations via tax deductible avenues is a complete travesty.

Accepting those donations is corrupt, just not illegal, because not everyone has the same dollars to vote with.

I can't believe you don't see this.
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Change the laws and watch Democrats celebrate. It's not corruption unless there is a agreement to trade something of value for money. You miss my point, however. The reason CU is still on the books is because every Republican supports it. When a bill was up for vote, every Democrat supported repeal of CU ruling.

100% Democrats opposed to CU > 0% Republican opposed to CU

I'm embarrassed for you that I had to say that.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Change the laws and watch Democrats celebrate. It's not corruption unless there is a agreement to trade something of value for money. You miss my point, however. The reason CU is still on the books is because every Republican supports it. When a bill was up for vote, every Democrat supported repeal of CU ruling.

100% Democrats opposed to CU > 0% Republican opposed to CU

I'm embarrassed for you that I had to say that.
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I believe they said it. I've said many times that I'm not sure I believe the Democrat's sincerity.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I believe they said it. I've said many times that I'm not sure I believe the Democrat's sincerity.
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When belief is in conflict with facts, belief has to challenged.

Find facts to justify your belief or re-evaluate your belief. You'll never convince by quoting your belief.

Some believe NASA never landed manned spacecraft on the moon. Am I to listen to them in spite of the facts?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
When belief is in conflict with facts, belief has to challenged.

Find facts to justify your belief or re-evaluate your belief. You'll never convince by quoting your belief.

Some believe NASA never landed manned spacecraft on the moon. Am I to listen to them in spite of the facts?
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Your point of view is not invalidated by mine. Yet you don't show me the same respect.

I see the Democratic Party differently than you and I need more evidence of their intent.

I'm not alone.

Perhaps if you spent less time telling me how stupid I am and more time showing me why you believe them I would change my view.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Your point of view is not invalidated by mine. Yet you don't show me the same respect.

I see the Democratic Party differently than you and I need more evidence of their intent.

I'm not alone.

Perhaps if you spent less time telling me how stupid I am and more time showing me why you believe them I would change my view.
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You keep repeating your belief as if it matters. You do this when I challenge you to come up with facts to bolster your belief. But you do not.

I don't know if you are stupid. But what you are saying is stupid.

Some people who aren't stupid believe in plasma beings, a super intelligent life form that lives in the magma core of the earth. Maybe they aren't stupid but what they say sure sounds like it. But at least they have a video of them.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You keep repeating your belief as if it matters. You do this when I challenge you to come up with facts to bolster your belief. But you do not.

I don't know if you are stupid. But what you are saying is stupid.

Some people who aren't stupid believe in plasma beings, a super intelligent life form that lives in the magma core of the earth. Maybe they aren't stupid but what they say sure sounds like it. But at least they have a video of them.
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Ok. I'll stop expecting a reasonable conversation with you.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Ok. I'll stop expecting a reasonable conversation with you.
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On this subject you are not reasonable.

How about this post:
ttystikk said:
I believe they said it. I've said many times that I'm not sure I believe the Democrat's sincerity.
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And then see how much it looks like this post:
Somebody said: A fact doesn't have to be true for it to be believed either--their actions are just different enough to continue to allow the majority of the population to believe they have a choice between two very different parties but in reality both Ds and Rs are moving the country toward socialism, just at different speeds.

"A fact doesn't have to be true to be believed"

A real gem of illogic.

Note how similar illogical quotes about belief trumping facts can come from the left and right and both fixate on Democrats as the problem. The facts keep showing the real problem is Republicans. Why is that? My opinion -- and in this case unfounded belief -- is that right wing propaganda has succeeded in contaminating the whole discussion everywhere.

You've been shagged. No lube, no condom, did not pull out as promised, called a bitch for crying and no promises other than they will be back.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
On this subject you are not reasonable.

How about this post:


And then see how much it looks like this post:


"A fact doesn't have to be true to be believed"

A real gem of illogic.

Note how similar illogical quotes about belief trumping facts can from the left and right and both fixate on Democrats as the problem. The facts keep showing the real problem is Republicans.

You've been shagged. No lube, no condom, did not pull out as promised, called a bitch for crying and no promises other than they will be back.
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I say no such thing. I'm just expressing my doubts about the sincerity of the Democratic Party. I'm not asking you or anyone to believe me or anything.

This is you going two steps too far; one, that I'm trying to say something irrefutable and to, that I'm asking you or anyone else to agree with me.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I say no such thing. I'm just expressing my doubts about the sincerity of the Democratic Party. I'm not asking you or anyone to believe me or anything.

This is you going two steps too far; one, that I'm trying to say something irrefutable and to, that I'm asking you or anyone else to agree with me.
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Whenever facts contradict a belief, there is an opportunity to gain understanding or correct a false belief. I look for these opportunities myself.

As I keep saying, your belief about "corrupt Democrats not supporting repeal of CU ruling and not supporting universal healthcare" is in contradiction of facts. Facts can't change but beliefs must change if they are shown to be based upon falsehoods. Either that or the believer in a falsehood will continue to make poor decisions based upon it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Whenever facts contradict a belief, there is an opportunity to gain understanding or correct a false belief. I look for these opportunities myself.

As I keep saying, your belief about "corrupt Democrats not supporting repeal of CU ruling and not supporting universal healthcare" is in contradiction of facts. Facts can't change but beliefs must change if they are shown to be based upon falsehoods. Either that or the believer in a falsehood will continue to make poor decisions based upon it.
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If you want to take everything the party says at face value, that's YOUR belief. All I've said is that I'm not convinced.

The fact that you're THIS upset that I'm not falling in line with your unquestioning worship of the party is itself suspect.

You don't seem to have a problem with people being skeptical of the Republicans, after all.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If you want to take everything the party says at face value, that's YOUR belief. All I've said is that I'm not convinced.

The fact that you're THIS upset that I'm not falling in line with your unquestioning worship of the party is itself suspect.

You don't seem to have a problem with people being skeptical of the Republicans, after all.
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Nope, this is where you project your own delusions. I'm sticking to what's shown in the Congressional Record when it comes my belief that Democrats support repeal of CU. This isn't about what people are saying, it's what they are doing that I find to be notable.

Also, records show consistent Democratic support for universal healthcare, both in the US congress, also in California. @Padawanbater2 wants to paint one California Democratic representative not in support out of more than a hundred in support as evidence that the entire party opposes single payer plans. His use of a fact is more like the way a drunk uses a lamp post for support instead of illumination.

When people paint Republicans with falsehoods, I've called them out for that. It hasn't happened in a while, though.

Back to the very strange response you've made, regarding the 2014 bill to amend the constitution and repeal CU. You said it's a fake move because the bill had no chance and so Democrats did it for show. Not your exact words but something to that effect. If the opposite were true and Democrats had voted against Bernie's bill, wouldn't that be absolutely damning to you?

"Oh, Democrats aren't sincere about repealing CU because the bill they 100% supported had no chance". Yet, you'd be quite reasonable to use their votes against Bernie's legislation as proof they opposed it. Don't you see the false logic you are using? No matter what, you end up with your preconceived notion of "corrupt Democrats". Whereas, if Democrats had voted against Bernie's legislation, I'd be agreeing with you right now. But they didn't and so we aren't in agreement.
 
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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Nope, this is where you project your own delusions. I'm sticking to what's shown in the Congressional Record when it comes my belief that Democrats support repeal of CU. This isn't about what people are saying, it's what they are doing that I find to be notable.

Also, records show consistent Democratic support for universal healthcare, both in the US congress, also in California. @Padawanbater2 wants to paint one California Democratic representative not in support out of more than a hundred in support as evidence that the entire party opposes single payer plans. His use of a fact is more like the way a drunk uses a lamp post for support instead of illumination.

When people paint Republicans with falsehoods, I've called them out for that. It hasn't happened in a while, though.

Back to the very strange response you've made, regarding the 2014 bill to amend the constitution and repeal CU. You said it's a fake move because the bill had no chance and so Democrats did it for show. Not your exact words but something to that effect. If the opposite were true and Democrats had voted against Bernie's bill, wouldn't that be absolutely damning to you?

"Oh, Democrats aren't sincere about repealing CU because the bill they 100% supported had no chance". Yet, you'd be quite reasonable to use their votes against Bernie's legislation as proof they opposed it. Don't you see the false logic you are using? No matter what, you end up with your preconceived notion of "corrupt Democrats". Whereas, if Democrats had voted against Bernie's legislation, I'd be agreeing with you right now. But they didn't and so we aren't in agreement.
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To your credit, you have shown that I should keep an open mind- so I am. I'm still doubtful. I expected much more from the Obama presidency. Maybe that was unrealistic, but it's left me pretty sour on the party.

Keep in mind that until a truly better alternative shows itself, I'm still voting for Democrats.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
To your credit, you have shown that I should keep an open mind- so I am. I'm still doubtful. I expected much more from the Obama presidency. Maybe that was unrealistic, but it's left me pretty sour on the party.

Keep in mind that until a truly better alternative shows itself, I'm still voting for Democrats.
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Thanks.
Keep in mind that I campaigned for and voted for a local Green Party initiative this fall. I'm not "be Democrat or die". But I am "better dead than red".
And when your third party shows up, I'll take a good hard look at their candidate.
 
undercovergrow

undercovergrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
On this subject you are not reasonable.

How about this post:


And then see how much it looks like this post:


"A fact doesn't have to be true to be believed"

A real gem of illogic.

Note how similar illogical quotes about belief trumping facts can come from the left and right and both fixate on Democrats as the problem. The facts keep showing the real problem is Republicans. Why is that? My opinion -- and in this case unfounded belief -- is that right wing propaganda has succeeded in contaminating the whole discussion everywhere.

You've been shagged. No lube, no condom, did not pull out as promised, called a bitch for crying and no promises other than they will be back.
Click to expand...

i don't care what you think. the fact that no one on this thread can understand that someone can believe something to be true and that in and of itself does not make "it" true is fine with me. could i have perhaps made myself a little more clear instead of taking another hit when i initially wrote that sentence? i suppose, but it wouldn't matter: the fact that you (and it seems most everyone else on this thread that has a far left view) engage in divisive rhetoric, name calling, and general childish behavior instead of actually having intellectual conversations is why i don't care what you have to spew on this thread.

not sure how i was notified about this thread anyway as i have stopped following the BS
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
undercovergrow said:
i don't care what you think. the fact that no one on this thread can understand that someone can believe something to be true and that in and of itself does not make "it" true is fine with me. could i have perhaps made myself a little more clear instead of taking another hit when i initially wrote that sentence? i suppose, but it wouldn't matter: the fact that you (and it seems most everyone else on this thread that has a far left view) engage in divisive rhetoric, name calling, and general childish behavior instead of actually having intellectual conversations is why i don't care what you have to spew on this thread.

not sure how i was notified about this thread anyway as i have stopped following the BS
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I'd hope that you've found a few tidbits of interest I've posted here.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Here's another tidbit; this one about economic bubbles and crashes, the cycle of growth and destruction that capitalists and the business analysts who serve them would have us believe are inevitable and desirable;

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/10/rich-trusted-money-161023150338308.html

But what about the rest of society? Their stories go largely untold. No one wants to read about privation, loss, upheaval, hunger or the effects of war on the lower class.
 
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