mycorrhiza question

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
anyone experiment with specific mushroom use as a mycorrhizae forming network? wood loving up top at the mulch, then: grass, dung, carbohydrate loving varieties in the soil. Trichoderma is not a contaminant in outdoors mycology and is more of a symbiotic relationship according to RR.

"
All fungi help to break down material in the soil, which in turn makes the nutrients more available to plant roots. In fact, our nemesis trichoderma is a very beneficial organism in the soil for that reason.

I've noticed also that burying spent and/or contaminated cakes into houseplants or the garden benefits the plants. They always green up and look much better a month or two later.
RR
"

gathered from the web




https://mycotopia.net/topic/74696-mycorrhizae-experiment/


so when would you add mycelium? when clones show root? dip new seed or clone roots into liquid culture and water in with mycelium water (LC)? they all sound like logical methods honestly. i guess ill experiment with a few methods as i am provided opportunity and report my findings. i suppose i'll need a microscope to see how i am doing eh? think one of the 20$ usb microscopes will work for this?
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
i have access to:
- shiitake mycelium, which is already culturing on logs and branches around my house
-psilocybe cyanescens spawn on bamboo skewers and can transplant this to any hardwood
CIMG4362.JPG
-panaeolus goliath WBS spawn
CIMG4386.JPG
cubensis LC and BRF/vermiculite cakes that will be "spent".
CIMG4388.JPG CIMG4375.JPG

so, referring to OP, i will start with simply dipping freshly rooted clones in an LC solution before planting. I have two cannabis cuttings just taken today sitting in a vermiculite cloning substrate with just some willow water as the hormone, and other cuttings directly into soil. The cuttings in soil i will make sure get transplanted into soil with lots of mushroom mycelium in it, i assume a little bokashi, normal amount of EWC, and microbe charged biochar will be a huge benefit as well. So, ill amend with such.
Everything is under a 14w LED @ 6-2 GLR.


CIMG4399.JPG CIMG4396.JPG CIMG4398.JPG
 

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ANC

Well-Known Member
I once dropped a wet kitchen wipe outside that I used to wipe the counter with I think.
Anyway, I never noticed it, until one day this big mushroom caught my eye. I was growing out of the kitchen wipe.

I find that if you keep your substrate lightly moist fungi will set up home by themselves, the spores are everywhere already.
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
I once dropped a wet kitchen wipe outside that I used to wipe the counter with I think.
Anyway, I never noticed it, until one day this big mushroom caught my eye. I was growing out of the kitchen wipe.

I find that if you keep your substrate lightly moist fungi will set up home by themselves, the spores are everywhere already.
should be a pretty brainless process then!
 

macsnax

Well-Known Member
anyone experiment with specific mushroom use as a mycorrhizae forming network? wood loving up top at the mulch, then: grass, dung, carbohydrate loving varieties in the soil. Trichoderma is not a contaminant in outdoors mycology and is more of a symbiotic relationship according to RR.

"
All fungi help to break down material in the soil, which in turn makes the nutrients more available to plant roots. In fact, our nemesis trichoderma is a very beneficial organism in the soil for that reason.

I've noticed also that burying spent and/or contaminated cakes into houseplants or the garden benefits the plants. They always green up and look much better a month or two later.
RR
"

gathered from the web




https://mycotopia.net/topic/74696-mycorrhizae-experiment/


so when would you add mycelium? when clones show root? dip new seed or clone roots into liquid culture and water in with mycelium water (LC)? they all sound like logical methods honestly. i guess ill experiment with a few methods as i am provided opportunity and report my findings. i suppose i'll need a microscope to see how i am doing eh? think one of the 20$ usb microscopes will work for this?
Nice read...Keep it coming
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
anyone experiment with specific mushroom use as a mycorrhizae forming network? wood loving up top at the mulch, then: grass, dung, carbohydrate loving varieties in the soil. Trichoderma is not a contaminant in outdoors mycology and is more of a symbiotic relationship according to RR.

"
All fungi help to break down material in the soil, which in turn makes the nutrients more available to plant roots. In fact, our nemesis trichoderma is a very beneficial organism in the soil for that reason.

I've noticed also that burying spent and/or contaminated cakes into houseplants or the garden benefits the plants. They always green up and look much better a month or two later.
RR
"

gathered from the web




https://mycotopia.net/topic/74696-mycorrhizae-experiment/


so when would you add mycelium? when clones show root? dip new seed or clone roots into liquid culture and water in with mycelium water (LC)? they all sound like logical methods honestly. i guess ill experiment with a few methods as i am provided opportunity and report my findings. i suppose i'll need a microscope to see how i am doing eh? think one of the 20$ usb microscopes will work for this?
Honey, you may have been eating too many mushrooms :hug:
Do you want to absolutely continue or shall I say something? :bigjoint:
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
Honey, you may have been eating too many mushrooms :hug:
Do you want to absolutely continue or shall I say something? :bigjoint:
uh oh, well if you have reservations...SPEAK NOW! lol. i feel like YOU are a great candidate for advice on this matter. Now, im not looking to increase yields or anything like that. I just wanted to try something a little different and see if mycelium will grow along side. plus i just have mycelium cakes that need to be buried SOMEWHERE every few weeks
 

iHearAll

Well-Known Member
you know you did or said something stupid when an intelligent individual approaches you with a "honey, you.... .... ... "
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
you know you did or said something stupid when an intelligent individual approaches you with a "honey, you.... .... ... "
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!! sooo sorry about that
I'm getting punished by a laughing fit, I swear I'm going to have a sore abdomen from it tomorrow
talk more when I'm done haha
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Ok back hehe
Aaand it wasn't what you're proposing, it was your comment on the way I , er intervened, that is almost killing me.
I was just trying to be nice!! :P

Ok so to start at the top - we don't know enough about fungi and their functions in the soil to be doing anything even close to what your idea sparking the thread would require :)
Also, scientific evidence, when you look at the trend of findings obtained by sound methods, is pointing more and more clearly in the direction of diversity, mutualism, cooperation, and versatility. So to let you continue in this direction would be the same as watching that pal teetering aweay from the fire, purportedly heading for the creek, but leaving in direction of the shit pit instead - wrong way!! :mrgreen:
To exemplify, there have been fungi found to be able to live happily as saprophytes, but switching to mycorrhizal mode when opportunity allows. Just as the plant enzymatically causes mycorrhizal spores to germinate and find their way to its roots, the fungi in turn groom their bacterial lackeys. Scientists have found the DNA of bacteria commonly found around those fungi in the fungi's DNA - up to 40% of it. WTF is that fungus going to do with that info? is it going to split off a part of itself to create the bacteria it needs for company?!?
We do not know.
But do you see how this all is not going in the direction of there being this set of specialists we can employ optimally to maximize our results?

Do you see the parallel to our highly fragmented, overspecialized world, where the hand does not know what the foot is doing, the greater overview is completely lost and we kneejerk our way through life?
It's an all-pervasive pattern. We breathe it like the air around us. And that's what makes it so challenging to be on the cutting edge, breaking through those patterns to adopt a different perspective. It's like the proverbial fish in water, not realizing it's in water because it's all it knows. We've seen it, just sometimes we don't have the whole picture ;)
Oh and nothing I say is any form of ultimate truth, it's just the present stage of what I know and what can be deducted therefrom, humbly!

So, if I understand correctly, on the one hand you want to use the spent substrate from your mushroom cultures to improve your soils. And that "contaminated" in shroomland means trichos started growing on them.
But if I understood correctly again, you grow those mushrooms under sterile conditions?
So you need to pay attention to what you've done to get it that way, did you use salts, antibiotics, did you autoclave? Then the best place for them will be in your compost, getting diverse life back in there. And if the mycelium of the fungus that was properly growing there sticks around, all the better. Because as said, we know only, that a large diversity of aerobic beings in the soil, in the right fungal to bacterial ratio for the plants we want to grow, is a good thing.

I also got the impression that you want to see if the fungi you've been culturing would go mycorrhizal with the cannabis. While that's a really cool experiment, it's not going to be easy to determine.
To observe endomycorrhizal root colonization (cannabis doesn't do ectos, that much we know), you need to do some stuff with the root I haven't studied yet (bleaching and dying), and look at it under the microscope - a light microscope, with a condenser and iris diaphragm while you're at it, that digital one only lights from above, and those resolutions, while I do almost see the single cells when I go to look at my trichs, honestly, I don't get them ;)
Now, to determine if the colonization you're seeing is actually the fungus you're going for, or rather (and likely) a combination of different ones all working alongside each other, I thinkk only DNA analysis can identify to that specificity :shock:

And what you've done with your clones is harmless, and hey yeah, maybe the cultures will take! :grin:
Sadly, after I moved, the edibles I had growing alongside my chili plant no longer showed up, I blame the dry air.
BUT also, that chili plant has always had problems with bug infestations - so maybe, that's just tooo fungal for it. Something to watch out for in case you do get the mushrooms to sprout fruiting bodies in there ;)

Hoping that wasn't all that bad! :p
 
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iHearAll

Well-Known Member
Ii pressure cook to obtain sterile conditions for dung loving species but the wood lovers do not require sterile conditions and i simply soak wood for 24-72 hours, drain, and inoculate. I have been practicing fruiting dung loving outside by burying in soil, only to find that after a good rain they will fruit pretty thick stems that have risen 4" through soil casing.

So, what you're getting at with the skewed direction and all is that i will likely not get much feedback from anything observed? i mean, its not a scholarly attempt at anything, just a cucky idea i had while eating shrooms. I figure, get some smart pots so the myc breaths and they either get along separately, appear to mingle, or one kills the other.

but hey, thats a plus that you think applying a little mycelium in root development is not a bad idea.

white boards are great for thinking
CIMG4423.JPG
Ok back hehe
Aaand it wasn't what you're proposing, it was your comment on the way I , er intervened, that is almost killing me.
I was just trying to be nice!! :P

Ok so to start at the top - we don't know enough about fungi and their functions in the soil to be doing anything even close to what your idea sparking the thread would require :)
Also, scientific evidence, when you look at the trend of findings obtained by sound methods, is pointing more and more clearly in the direction of diversity, mutualism, cooperation, and versatility. So to let you continue in this direction would be the same as watching that pal teetering aweay from the fire, purportedly heading for the creek, but leaving in direction of the shit pit instead - wrong way!! :mrgreen:
To exemplify, there have been fungi found to be able to live happily as saprophytes, but switching to mycorrhizal mode when opportunity allows. Just as the plant enzymatically causes mycorrhizal spores to germinate and find their way to its roots, the fungi in turn groom their bacterial lackeys. Scientists have found the DNA of bacteria commonly found around those fungi in the fungi's DNA - up to 40% of it. WTF is that fungus going to do with that info? is it going to split off a part of itself to create the bacteria it needs for company?!?
We do not know.
But do you see how this all is not going in the direction of there being this set of specialists we can employ optimally to maximize our results?

Do you see the parallel to our highly fragmented, overspecialized world, where the hand does not know what the foot is doing, the greater overview is completely lost and we kneejerk our way through life?
It's an all-pervasive pattern. We breathe it like the air around us. And that's what makes it so challenging to be on the cutting edge, breaking through those patterns to adopt a different perspective. It's like the proverbial fish in water, not realizing it's in water because it's all it knows. We've seen it, just sometimes we don't have the whole picture ;)
Oh and nothing I say is any form of ultimate truth, it's just the present stage of what I know and what can be deducted therefrom, humbly!

So, if I understand correctly, on the one hand you want to use the spent substrate from your mushroom cultures to improve your soils. And that "contaminated" in shroomland means trichos started growing on them.
But if I understood correctly again, you grow those mushrooms under sterile conditions?
So you need to pay attention to what you've done to get it that way, did you use salts, antibiotics, did you autoclave? Then the best place for them will be in your compost, getting diverse life back in there. And if the mycelium of the fungus that was properly growing there sticks around, all the better. Because as said, we know only, that a large diversity of aerobic beings in the soil, in the right fungal to bacterial ratio for the plants we want to grow, is a good thing.

I also got the impression that you want to see if the fungi you've been culturing would go mycorrhizal with the cannabis. While that's a really cool experiment, it's not going to be easy to determine.
To observe endomycorrhizal root colonization (cannabis doesn't do ectos, that much we know), you need to do some stuff with the root I haven't studied yet (bleaching and dying), and look at it under the microscope - a light microscope, with a condenser and iris diaphragm while you're at it, that digital one only lights from above, and those resolutions, while I do almost see the single cells when I go to look at my trichs, honestly, I don't get them ;)
Now, to determine if the colonization you're seeing is actually the fungus you're going for, or rather (and likely) a combination of different ones all working alongside each other, I thinkk only DNA analysis can identify to that specificity :shock:

And what you've done with your clones is harmless, and hey yeah, maybe the cultures will take! :grin:
Sadly, after I moved, the edibles I had growing alongside my chili plant no longer showed up, I blame the dry air.
BUT also, that chili plant has always had problems with bug infestations - so maybe, that's just tooo fungal for it. Something to watch out for in case you do get the mushrooms to sprout fruiting bodies in there ;)

Hoping that wasn't all that bad! :p
 
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