1. We are currently experiencing issues with viewing and uploading images, our team is working on the issue.
    Dismiss Notice

New LEDS

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by Mullumbimby, Mar 18, 2017.

  1.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Hi team,
    Last year, I made a DIY light for my 4x4 tent with 16 x CXB3590s and 4 x 200W, 1400mA dimmable drivers.
    I'm currently running it at about 750W at the wall and the plants and spider-mites are loving it :shock:
    Big thanks to Rollitup, @Growmau5 and @welight for inspiration and component knowledge.
    I now need to make another set of lights for an approximate 8x4 space, but I haven't kept up my research, except to hear that the CXB3590 may not still be the ducks guts for efficiency and set-up costs.
    I plan to go ahead in 2, 4x4 stages so I need to replicate the flexibility, power, spread and performance of my existing set-up and I'd like it to use less juice and cost me less money to build.
    Any Ideas?
    IMG_1693.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  2.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    here are a couple of other pics @Roger A. Shrubber
    (I turned off the middle 2 rows, so that the camera could cope)
     

    Attached Files:

  3.  
    Snaddehat

    Snaddehat Well-Known Member

    Yea, it's not worth it to buy CXB these days. Vero 29 Gen 7 performs better (at least @60+ watts) and are cheaper than Cree.
    You should also take a look at Citizen and Luminus chips as they are very close in performance to Bridgelux and Cree, and significantly cheaper. We have a lot of variety in COB's at the moment, and it's great for prices hehe :) ...it's also great with more different types of chips to choose from, so we can tailor our builds more specific to our needs.
     
    needsomebeans likes this.
  4.  
    HydoDan

    HydoDan Well-Known Member

    I would build the same light but exchange the cree 3590's for citizen 1212's.. Have a look at Timber grow lights...
     
    RainDan likes this.
  5.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Thanks for your input but, if I want 3500K top bin, they look every bit as expensive as the 3590s to me (give or take $2).
    Maybe if I ran 8 (or 9), at around 80W, instead of 16 @45W. Does anyone know how to work out the relative efficiency?
    Have they been advertised cheaper than $50 (AUD)?
    @welight
     
  6.  
    Snaddehat

    Snaddehat Well-Known Member

    CXB3590 3500K DB bin is ~50$ (US) and Vero 29C gen7 is ~30$ from Kingbrite. The Vero is currently a better chip when driven harder than 50w and 20$ cheaper.
    If you want to run your chips at around 45 watts, then look at Citizen chips. Much cheaper than CXB and i believe they're around 50% efficient at that wattage
     
    Mullumbimby likes this.
  7.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Nice, they are about $32 each, which is a start.
    Can I crank them up to 45W and still get > 150 Lumens/Watt?
     
  8.  
    HydoDan

    HydoDan Well-Known Member

    I think @CobKits can answer your questions better than me.. He knows his shit.. cobkits.com
     
  9.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    the $25 veros beat the crees. the $32 are even more effcient.

    i think the best deal going for the usual 40-60W range are the luminus cxm22, $17 after riu code on my site. theyre right up there with the $30+ chips in that wattage range. i wouldnt recommend the $30+ chips unless youre running 75W or more (and even then citi 1825 or veroC - cree falls off above 75W- we were supposed to be into a new series by last fall but dunno what happened with them
     
    Hybridway and OLD MOTHER SATIVA like this.
  10.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Thanks for your help, I like the look of some of your deals.
    If I want to replicate the performance and beat the efficiency of 16xCXB3950 running at about 42W each, and I went with 9 bigger chips @75W - would the efficiency improve, or am I better off sticking with 16 units?
    Ongoing efficiency is my major concern, due to heat issues and electricity costs, and I haven't had time to keep up with the latest reading.
     
  11.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    Per my measurements, the following chips are about the same efficiency as CXB @ 42W:

    1212 gen 5 at ~35W
    1212 gen 6 at ~40-45W
    1818 gen5/vero gen7D @ ~50W
    1818 gen6/cxm22 @ ~60W
    vero C/1825 gen 5 @ 60-70W
     
    Hybridway, MeGaKiLlErMaN and ttystikk like this.
  12.  
    klx

    klx Well-Known Member

    Hey mate, you could run Vero 29 C at 1050mA for same efficiency @ 70 watts a chip and a cheaper build or run the Vero 29 Cs at 700mA for about 45 watts a chip which will cost about the same as your cree setup to build but you will be killing it with >190 l/w for 3500k/80cri.

    Get the SE version of the Veros for a couple extra bucks as they make the build a piece of piss with the push in connector and no holders needed.
     
    Mullumbimby likes this.
  13.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Woah! hold on a minnit.
    Now that I've invested a bit of my time in research, this thread is going to get seriously nerdy - sorry about that.
    I've had a look at a couple of datasheets and compared the CXB3590 3500k and CXM-22 3500k.
    I may be getting a bit muddled in my thinking and the test temperatures may have a bigger impact than I imagine, but it appears to me that the CXM doesn't even come close to the efficiency of the CXB
    Supra's spreadsheet says that, at 1400mA (and 50C) the CXB will unleash 8,916 Lumens (at 182 Lumens/ Watt, so 56.3% efficiency)
    The CXM-22 Datasheet implies that at 1280mA the CXM will give between 5,580 Lumens (85c) and 6,200 Lumens (25C)
    If we split the difference (55C) and add 8% (to go from 1280mA to 1400mA - See the graph of Forward Current (mA) vs Relative Luminous Flux), we get 6,351 Lumens
    8,916 vs 6,351
    Same Amps, similar Volts, within 5 degrees junction temperature 29% less Lumens
    Help me out here, I'm looking for a more efficient way of lighting 4x4 (actually, 8x4 eventually) not just cheap cobs.
    Or, have I misunderstood the data?
    http://rollitup.org/t/cob-efficiency-spreadsheets.865238/page-9
    http://www.luminus.com/products/PDS-002437-Rev01-CXM-22.pdf
     
  14.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Thanks mate, straight Aussie talking, right there.
    I'll have a close look at the Veros.
     
    klx likes this.
  15.  
    CobKits

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    cree pct says at 55C the CD bin 3590 is 7832 lm/ 162 lm/W

    the one youre looking at is 3 years old were on gen3 (-F4), cxm22 chips are now 50V

    luminus calculator also returns ~162 lm/W for the same 48W

    upload_2017-3-19_2-56-18.png

    my tests and others suggest cree's data is a little optimistic. ive never seen a cxb beat a luminus on the bench
     
  16.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

     
  17.  
    Mullumbimby

    Mullumbimby Member

    Can I run Vero29C 3500K 80cri on a 700mA driver @ 53.5v, or would that voltage be too low to fire them up?
     
    Hybridway likes this.
  18.  
    klx

    klx Well-Known Member

    Too low. Cs are 65.6V at that current. You could run Vero Bs on that driver which are 49V and 34 watts @ 700mA.


    Vero29 700mA.jpg
     
    Mullumbimby likes this.
  19.  
    VegasWinner

    VegasWinner Well-Known Member

    You might want to check out chilledled new gen grow engine his 400w gen2 replaces his 650w gen1 unit with greater umols at a cost around $1/w
     
  20.  
    GardenGuy

    GardenGuy Member

    I'd like to check these boards, but I don't like the heat sink profile they come with. If the could run on lower profile and cheaper hs like the quantums I'd be great. Waiting for calculations.
     

Share This Page