North Korea-What should be done?

ilkhan said:

N.Korea is saber ratling.
They want some free shit.
They attack S.Korea they are done.
If they Nuke anyone it will be
the last act of a failed state.

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Yeah, unless they sell their nuclear technology to another crazy motherfucker like that Iranian nazi Ahmedinijad. Then what? Nuclear proliferation is/has long been a goal numerous nations have been trying to squash, and it's a noble goal, but when dealing with a situation like N. Korea/Kim Jong Il, the options are few. They've made no attempts at democracy, have basically no exports, and their country has been starving as a result. What makes them even more bitter is that S. Korea, for the most part, contrastly, is doing well. Their people have more freedom and a higher standard of living than they've ever known, and guess what, they like it. It's truly sad that one person like Kim Jong Il continues to oppress his own people, starve them, and stay stubbornly opposed to joining the rest of the civilized world and democracy.

As far as what to do with them, that is largely dependent on confirmable intel. If they are as far along with their nuclear and missile technology as we've been led to believe, then the "Bush doctrine" of pre-emptive intervention I whole-heartedly endorse. It'd be nice to have some other country step up the plate and take on the scumbags of the world like Kim Jong Il, but of course, they don't. The question is, at what point does America reach a financial breaking point fighting for "good" in the world? I don't want this country to have to be the one that is forced to intervene, but the fact is, no other will- they simply don't think they have to. The world's gotten spoiled by Americans being the good superpower of the world, and letting us fight all the noble fights. Other countries, (many actually) are simply opposed to the ideals/economy of America, and want to make anything we do as difficult as possible. That part, pisses me off.

One thing's almost assured though, whatever Obama does or doesn't do about all this, is probably the wrong thing. lol

Mcgician said:

Yeah, unless they sell their nuclear technology to another crazy motherfucker like that Iranian nazi Ahmedinijad. Then what? Nuclear proliferation is/has long been a goal numerous nations have been trying to squash, and it's a noble goal, but when dealing with a situation like N. Korea/Kim Jong Il, the options are few. They've made no attempts at democracy, have basically no exports, and their country has been starving as a result. What makes them even more bitter is that S. Korea, for the most part, contrastly, is doing well. Their people have more freedom and a higher standard of living than they've ever known, and guess what, they like it. It's truly sad that one person like Kim Jong Il continues to oppress his own people, starve them, and stay stubbornly opposed to joining the rest of the civilized world and democracy.

As far as what to do with them, that is largely dependent on confirmable intel. If they are as far along with their nuclear and missile technology as we've been led to believe, then the "Bush doctrine" of pre-emptive intervention I whole-heartedly endorse. It'd be nice to have some other country step up the plate and take on the scumbags of the world like Kim Jong Il, but of course, they don't. The question is, at what point does America reach a financial breaking point fighting for "good" in the world? I don't want this country to have to be the one that is forced to intervene, but the fact is, no other will- they simply don't think they have to. The world's gotten spoiled by Americans being the good superpower of the world, and letting us fight all the noble fights. Other countries, (many actually) are simply opposed to the ideals/economy of America, and want to make anything we do as difficult as possible. That part, pisses me off.

One thing's almost assured though, whatever Obama does or doesn't do about all this, is probably the wrong thing. lol

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For the text in bold, why does it piss you off that other countries disapprove of our hegemonic economical system and our imperialistic domination of the rest of the world. I bet you $100 if you were a citizen of one of these other countries, you would be pissed too, Take a step back, and once examined with an objective eye, it's quite easy to see why we're hated (and justifiably so). I travel abroad at least 5 times a year and I do get tired of being negatively judged just because I'm an American, but I have to remind myself that we, as a country, deserve negative judgment. Every citizen is not a walking, talking manifestation of their government, but many people will treat us as such because they're so disgusted by our holier-than-thou ethnocentrism.

And for the text in red, are you saying that, because you disagree with Obama's ideology, he is incapable of making ANY correct decisions? Are you frickin' serious? So because he's a democrat, he can do NOTHING right? You, my friend, have just exposed the extent of your one-sided blindness. Congratulations.

I agree N.Korea is most likely saber rattling, and would like to get some concessions, foreign aid etc. but whenever a population is ruled by a dictator like the situation in N.Korea the problem becomes compounded. If he has a bad hair day and decides to pull some shit militarily who in his country will stop him ? Then if the USA responds militarily...what willl China do? Side with us, stay out of it militarily while issuing their own world currency (fucking the US dollar hard) or side with N. Korea militarily?

China is the key, we need to be talking to them and getting them involved in a positive way. I think I smell "regime change" on the horizon if this situation blossoms. Chinese gov't. officials may not want regime change though as a "free" N.Korea could lead to unrest in China. Nobody wins if China and the USA back opposite sides that's for sure.

I hope this doesn't get out of hand, I'm not looking forward to World war III. The Japanese people must be watching this very closely. They still remember what happens when old school nukes start flying. I wonder if Obama will order Korean Americans into concentration camps like FDR did to the Japanese Americans during WW II ? (sarcasm...I think)

jrh72582 said:

For the text in bold, why does it piss you off that other countries disapprove of our hegemonic economical system and our imperialistic domination of the rest of the world. I bet you $100 if you were a citizen of one of these other countries, you would be pissed too, Take a step back, and once examined with an objective eye, it's quite easy to see why we're hated (and justifiably so). I travel abroad at least 5 times a year and I do get tired of being negatively judged just because I'm an American, but I have to remind myself that we, as a country, deserve negative judgment. Every citizen is not a walking, talking manifestation of their government, but many people will treat us as such because they're so disgusted by our holier-than-thou ethnocentrism.

And for the text in red, are you saying that, because you disagree with Obama's ideology, he is incapable of making ANY correct decisions? Are you frickin' serious? So because he's a democrat, he can do NOTHING right? You, my friend, have just exposed the extent of your one-sided blindness. Congratulations.

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Who cares how often and why you travel dude? lol You want to hate on America go right ahead. America thanks you for that. My comment about Obama was tongue-in-cheek, but since you're obviously a big fan of his, your sensitivity level to such comments is what's clearly exposed here. Obama has little to no experience in geopolitics, and is far outside the comfortable surroundings of a "community organizer", and it shows. IMO, showing weakness or thinking that we can simply get N. Korea to do what we want (and what most of the world wants) diplomatically is a joke. And yes, so far Obama's track record for making "correct" decisions for our country gives me a LOT of doubt he'll make the right one in this situation.

GrowRebel said:

I have a better question ... what should be done about the US?
1. Illegally invaded a sovereign nation.

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Well, actually technically we never were at peace with Iraq after the 1991 invasion so we never really engaged in a new war and we were in control a large portion of their airspace (the no fly zones) so it is kind of hard to say that they were in fact a soveriegn nation.

2. Allowed antiquities to be looted from said sovereign nation.

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We really can't be held responsible for what the citizens of that nation did with their own national treasures...

3. Allowed citizens to be tortured and participated in torture ... which is a war crime.

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That accusation depends on one's definition of torture

4. Looted resources from said nation.

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Yeah, that goes along with waging war, got to pay for the war some how...

5. Perpetrated a false flag attack killing more than 3000 people on US soil.

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Do you have conclusive proof?

Do you have witnesses that will verify that it in fact a false flag attack?

Because according the the Constitution an accusation of Treason must be backed by two witnesses testifying to the same act of Treason. So just tossing the accusation around with out witnesses actually goes against the legal system of the United States.

6. Lied in order to invade a sovereign nation actually two ... can't forget about Afghanistan.

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No, I'm pretty sure Afghanistan was hosting Obama, err Osama bin Laden after 9-11 and refused to surrender him.

7. Have bombed several nations. Killing innocent civilians.

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Yeah, every nation tends to do that...

Especially when they have a global hegemony just look at Britain and Spain.

So who is the real threat to the world and what should be done about it?

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Withdraw our soldiers from EVERYWHERE and secure our own borders.

Extend the hand of trade to every nation and show that we have no interest in pursuing interventionist policies either economically (through IMF loans that leave those nations screwed over for perpetuity and at the mercy of the banksters.) or militarily (that should be self-explanatory I think.)

Let not be hypocrites shall we?

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Large difference between conventional munitions and nuclear munitions.

GrowRebel said:

I have a better question ... what should be done about the US?
1. Illegally invaded a sovereign nation.
2. Allowed antiquities to be looted from said sovereign nation.
3. Allowed citizens to be tortured and participated in torture ... which is a war crime.
4. Looted resources from said nation.
5. Perpetrated a false flag attack killing more than 3000 people on US soil.
6. Lied in order to invade a sovereign nation actually two ... can't forget about Afghanistan.
7. Have bombed several nations. Killing innocent civilians.

So who is the real threat to the world and what should be done about it?

Let not be hypocrites shall we?

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C'mon man. What resources have we looted from Iraq? The Iraqi's said that our oil contracts were unfair, and thus they opened them up for bidding. They acted as a sovereign nation and told us that we would have to pay more money. I know that it's popular to hate on the Iraq War, but lets at least state the true facts.

We have had false flag attacks before, but 9/11 was in no way done by the U.S. Just think about it with logic. Why would we sacrifice so many of our citizens, when we could accomplish the same goal (invasion of Afghanistan) with no loss of life? Do you remember how we got entangled in Vietnam? LBJ and the government crafted a fake North Vietnamese naval attack, which drew the ire of citizens, enabling public support for the campaign.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Well, actually technically we never were at peace with Iraq after the 1991 invasion so we never really engaged in a new war and we were in control a large portion of their airspace (the no fly zones) so it is kind of hard to say that they were in fact a soveriegn nation.

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Bullshit ...we were not "technically" at war with Iraq after the 1991 invasion and the US set Hussein up claiming they wouldn't interfere in Arab affairs when he told the US ambassador to Iraq that Kuwait was drilling Iraqi oil and not paying for it. The US wanted him to invade Kuwait so they could put US bases in the area which they did ... which piss Bin Laden off.

TheBrutalTruth said:

We really can't be held responsible for what the citizens of that nation did with their own national treasures...

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Again bullshit ... we became responsible when we illegally invaded ... we didn't have any trouble guarding those oil fields now did we.

TheBrutalTruth said:

That accusation depends on one's definition of torture

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What part of waterboarding is torture and against the law don't you understand? Why does your bushwhacked mind find that concept so hard to grasp?

TheBrutalTruth said:

Yeah, that goes along with waging war, got to pay for the war some how...

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Waging a war and looting the country resources is against international law and is a war crime. Look it up.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Do you have conclusive proof?

Do you have witnesses that will verify that it in fact a false flag attack?

Because according the the Constitution an accusation of Treason must be backed by two witnesses testifying to the same act of Treason. So just tossing the accusation around with out witnesses actually goes against the legal system of the United States.

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Oh yeah ... I've got plenty of proof with plenty of witnesses ...
More than enough to warrant an non partisan independent investigation with subpoena and arresting power. That would put all the war criminals behind bars ... that's why the government is against it ... but the families members of the 911 in NY want one ...and are working to have one. And they have the legal power to do so.
[youtube]TzC3QI8JenU&feature=email[/youtube]
They know that a real investigation will show the government involvement.

TheBrutalTruth said:

No, I'm pretty sure Afghanistan was hosting Obama, err Osama bin Laden after 9-11 and refused to surrender him.

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Err no ... 911 was an inside job to justify illegal invasion to further a political agenda. And there is no proof what so ever that Bin Laden was responsible for 911 ... perhaps you can use your infinite wisdom to explain to us why it is not listed as one of his crimes with the FBI ... fill us in on that one bright boy ...

TheBrutalTruth said:

Yeah, every nation tends to do that...

Especially when they have a global hegemony just look at Britain and Spain.

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Yeah and still crimes against humanity ... but I'd doubt you'd understand the concept.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Withdraw our soldiers from EVERYWHERE and secure our own borders.

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Either that or have the country that we have bases on put bases on US soil ... that would work too.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Large difference between conventional munitions and nuclear munitions.

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What does this have to do with the hypocrisy of the US?

Are you going to respond to my comment?

I would love to hear your take on it.

motorboater said:

C'mon man. What resources have we looted from Iraq?

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Come on lady ... use your head ... the oil ...

motorboater said:

The Iraqi's said that our oil contracts were unfair, and thus they opened them up for bidding. They acted as a sovereign nation and told us that we would have to pay more money. I know that it's popular to hate on the Iraq War, but lets at least state the true facts.

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The US put a great deal of pressure on the Iraqis to sign a oil deal with them ... I for one was happy to see it didn't go the US way ... but that is what they wanted. Along with putting in US bases. Those are the facts.

motorboater said:

We have had false flag attacks before, but 9/11 was in no way done by the U.S. Just think about it with logic. Why would we sacrifice so many of our citizens, when we could accomplish the same goal (invasion of Afghanistan) with no loss of life?

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Yes ... we have had false flag attracks before and 911 was definitely one of them. Think about it with logic ... how could not one ... but four planes get pass one of the greatest defenses in the world? Why didn't any heads roll for the so called lack of security? Why didn't the dog bark? How did the SS know that bush wasn't in any danger? Who told NORAD to stand down? When a plane when off course in the past and after 911 they were in the sky in minutes ...who told them to stand down?
Do you really think the war criminals could have gotten away with those illegal invasion without 911? Do you think they could get away with all the spying and other war crimes without 911? Do you think buildings design to withstand a plane and fire can come crashing straight down in 15 seconds after burning for only an hour? 911 was on inside job ... most countries already know it ... the sheeple asleep at the wheel ... the corporate media sees to it ... in the US are the only ones that accept the bullshit government story.

motorboater said:

Do you remember how we got entangled in Vietnam? LBJ and the government crafted a fake North Vietnamese naval attack, which drew the ire of citizens, enabling public support for the campaign.

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Johnson was a war criminal too ... and he should have been tried as one. The bush regime did the same shit Johnson did for the same reasons.

No one will EVER convince me that 911 wasn't an inside Job. Sure we may not have flown the planes, but somehow our gubbermint knew about it, or colluded with them over it. It takes only a simple mind to realize that buildings do not fall straight down into their own footprints without help from explosives, NOT EVER. And the real kicker is the 3rd building that went down, building #7 that had a few VERY SMALL and easily controlled fires that even the NYFD said was not a threat in any way. yeah it fell into its own footprint too. the whole thing was a false flag to get the patriot act passed and our rights trampled!

There are worse accidents that have happened to steel skyscrapers and NONE of them fell. The only buildings that have fallen into their own footprint are buildings that were DEMOED!

Know how long it takes to have some off course jet accompanied by Fighter aircraft? Minutes or less. Just as soon as the aircraft leaves its flight path people in the military are notified and that plane is brought down. Try flying a plane any where near DC and veering off course, you don't get anywhere near a building before you are reduced to pieces. If it were really that easy to take over a jet with a plastic butter knife and fly it into a large building and ultimately bring that building down they would be doing it all the time. Fact is that peanuts kill more people than terrorists ever will. If we can eradicate peanuts we have done more good than all the war mongering we can buy. Silly when you think of it that way isn't it?


Its suicide to use Nuclear Weapons, the only ones I seriously think would use them are the Jihad Muslim's who believe in sacrifice to attain the 99 virgins. So yeah we need to watch out for Iran and Pakistan IMO. Most countries just want nukes so they can have more say in the direction their country takes, that and its hard to bully someone who can start the end of the world.

im not a large nut on conspiracys..not that i dont mean to say that they do not exist..they are impossible to prove.
the reason i dont respond to these kinds of posts is..what could obama do about NK? NOTHING. he is a broke dick with no moral authority and a demoralized military. he has no moral authority to order a military attack on anyone.
obama is mostly a dead duck in the water as far as international policy is concerned . his domestic fiscal policy is running what is left of the jobs out of the country and puting the finnishing touch's on manifacturing in the USA.and destroying the US dollars and the middle class . oh well..you were all warned. now you are going to have 4 long years of economic depression if not for 16 to 20 years.you asked for it..you got it.

GrowRebel said:

I have a better question ... what should be done about the US?
1. Illegally invaded a sovereign nation.
2. Allowed antiquities to be looted from said sovereign nation.
3. Allowed citizens to be tortured and participated in torture ... which is a war crime.
4. Looted resources from said nation.
5. Perpetrated a false flag attack killing more than 3000 people on US soil.
6. Lied in order to invade a sovereign nation actually two ... can't forget about Afghanistan.
7. Have bombed several nations. Killing innocent civilians.

So who is the real threat to the world and what should be done about it?

Let not be hypocrites shall we?

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Start your own thread then!!!!!!!

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/technology/amateur-spies-put-north-korea-on-the-map-20090602-bttj.html

North Korea - Almost Hell...

GrowRebel said:

Come on lady ... use your head ... the oil ...

The US put a great deal of pressure on the Iraqis to sign a oil deal with them ... I for one was happy to see it didn't go the US way ... but that is what they wanted. Along with putting in US bases. Those are the facts.


Yes ... we have had false flag attracks before and 911 was definitely one of them. Think about it with logic ... how could not one ... but four planes get pass one of the greatest defenses in the world? Why didn't any heads roll for the so called lack of security? Why didn't the dog bark? How did the SS know that bush wasn't in any danger? Who told NORAD to stand down? When a plane when off course in the past and after 911 they were in the sky in minutes ...who told them to stand down?
Do you really think the war criminals could have gotten away with those illegal invasion without 911? Do you think they could get away with all the spying and other war crimes without 911? Do you think buildings design to withstand a plane and fire can come crashing straight down in 15 seconds after burning for only an hour? 911 was on inside job ... most countries already know it ... the sheeple asleep at the wheel ... the corporate media sees to it ... in the US are the only ones that accept the bullshit government story.

Johnson was a war criminal too ... and he should have been tried as one. The bush regime did the same shit Johnson did for the same reasons.

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But then you must think, "Why would we want to go fight in Afghanistan, knowing that it will be defeat?"

Wouldn't it have been easier to blame the entire thing on an Iraqi faction, thus avoiding the inevitable defeat in Afghanistan? Afghanistan has/had nothing to offer, and thus we would have no reason to go there without an actual security threat.

If the government stood to make money from the 9/11 incident, then it would have been quickly used up due to the high costs of the Iraq and Afghani Wars.

Sure, there are many coincidences that don't seem right, but that doesn't exactly mean that they are what they are. In Forensics, they teach you to look past the obvious. You must look into who would gain from the incident, and for me, there seems very little reward.

Dankdude said:

Well the original question was "What should be done?"

Lat's face it, they already have nukes, Iran will have nukes.
Both of these countries have already proved that there is no negotiation with them. They say they will do one thing and then do another.
I say let them have the nukes, but with this caveat. If even one nuke touches US Soil, or the soil of our allies. They will be bombed in to the stone age.

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There is nothing worse than a nuclear war. We don't want that. They cannot have nukes. Along with the technology comes the ability to export it. North Korea has already tried to build a nuclear reactor in Syria, which was later bombed by the Israelis.

Allowing Iran to have nukes is the same thing as allowing the Holocaust to happen again. They will try to destroy Israel, which in turn will cause Israel to launch nukes at Iran.

Nuclear winter would kill all of us.

GENIUS IDEA...SURE..let a group of people who would strap bombs on their own children and send them into a market to blow up a bunch of people shopping have nukes..the muslims..unlike most people on the planet do not seem to give a shit if they live or die.
it would be better that they died before a bunch of other INNOCENT people die.
the north koreans starve. kim jong beats the war drum and has been for years. his army is even hungry. a hungry army is like a tiger without teeth or claws. it can growl some but doesnt have alot of fight in it.
the north koreans. unlike the muslims are not for the most part suicidal.
every time kim jong beats the war drum the US gives in to

some trade agreements. or monatary assistance.
this is what he has learned over his years of doing this kind of extortion.
the best way would to be to explain how a little spoiled child would be in a market wanting a toy or candy . cept this one wont shut up even after you buy him the toy. he just keeps wanting more and more.

i always love seeing this fat fuck surrounded by starving people..what a complete ass hole' .
take a good look at this lefties. this is what your plutocracy is all about

max420thc said:

GENIUS IDEA...SURE..let a group of people who would strap bombs on their own children and send them into a market to blow up a bunch of people shopping have nukes..the muslims..unlike most people on the planet do not seem to give a shit if they live or die.
it would be better that they died before a bunch of other INNOCENT people die.
the north koreans starve. kim jong beats the war drum and has been for years. his army is even hungry. a hungry army is like a tiger without teeth or claws. it can growl some but doesnt have alot of fight in it.
the north koreans. unlike the muslims are not for the most part suicidal.
every time kim jong beats the war drum the US gives in to

some trade agreements. or monatary assistance.
this is what he has learned over his years of doing this kind of extortion.
the best way would to be to explain how a little spoiled child would be in a market wanting a toy or candy . cept this one wont shut up even after you buy him the toy. he just keeps wanting more and more.

i always love seeing this fat fuck surrounded by starving people..what a complete ass hole' .
take a good look at this lefties. this is what your plutocracy is all about

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What's wrong with you? First you categorize a billion people as not valuing life whatsoever, and then you say that the American left favors a plutocracy. You're a fucking loon.

motorboater said:

But then you must think, "Why would we want to go fight in Afghanistan, knowing that it will be defeat?"

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You are not very well informed on these issues ... you really should do your homework before you post. PNAC obviously had plans for Afghanistan. Losing doesn't matter ... as long as it creates a perpetual war ... with perpetual profits for the MIC and the oil companies ... check it people ...

US PREPARING FOR A WAR WITH AFGHANISTAN BEFORE 9/11, INCREASING CONTROL OF ASIA BEFORE AND SINCE

Afghanistan: The Other Illegal War
The U.N. Charter provides that all member states must settle their international disputes by peaceful means, and no nation can use military force except in self-defense or when authorized by the Security Council. After the 9/11 attacks, the council passed two resolutions, neither of which authorized the use of military force in Afghanistan.
The invasion of Afghanistan was not legitimate self-defense under article 51 of the charter because the attacks on Sept. 11 were criminal attacks, not "armed attacks" by another country. Afghanistan did not attack the United States.

motorboater said:

Wouldn't it have been easier to blame the entire thing on an Iraqi faction, thus avoiding the inevitable defeat in Afghanistan? Afghanistan has/had nothing to offer, and thus we would have no reason to go there without an actual security threat.

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Like I said ... you need to do your homework ... PNAC wanted control of the area ... which is what they have ... and they have plenty of reasons for going there ... it was clear Afghanistan was not a security threat ... the only threat is the US illegally invading countries.

motorboater said:

If the government stood to make money from the 9/11 incident, then it would have been quickly used up due to the high costs of the Iraq and Afghani Wars.

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I'm not sure if you are being ignorant or just stupid ... have you seen the profits of Haliburton ... a cheney company and Bushel ... along with other defense contractors since these illegal wars started? ... the information is out there ... you need to do the research. They are looting the treasury to feed their geedy friends ...

motorboater said:

Sure, there are many coincidences that don't seem right, but that doesn't exactly mean that they are what they are. In Forensics, they teach you to look past the obvious. You must look into who would gain from the incident, and for me, there seems very little reward.

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That first sentence doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't mean that they are what they are? The evidence is clear ... Skyscaper that have never in the history before or since ever fell in their own footprint in 15 sec. due to a plane crash and fire is not just a coincidence ... it's evidence of foul play ... and it is you that needs to look into who gain after 911 ... the information is out there ... there may be no reward for you ... but for PNAC the reward is a NWO ... thank God people from NYC and the architects and engineer are demanding a open investigation. It' never ceases to amaze me that people actually bought the government bullshit story about those buildings. It defies physics ... yet people will accept the government cock and bull over the laws of physics ... unfuckingbelievable
... as far as "what should we do?" How about cleaning our own house before we start pointing fingers at another country hmmmm?