On Chavez's speech ...

I don't know what chavez has going in his country, and the only view we'll ever see on TV is the one expressed by the CIA and the Bush govt. So what is really the truth, I suppose you would have to move to Venezuela to find out. I guess since Chavez has Oil, he doesn't need foriegn aid from the US, so the US cannot influence his govt. and control his resourses. The comments made about Bush were a little harsh for a world speech but I believe to be accurate in the vernacular sense. The Guy (Bush) acts like the Devil to the rest of the world, "Your either with us or against us" or maybe not said out loud but insinuated, "go Fuck Yourselves", a Brilliant foriegn policy, Eh!

a Brilliant foriegn policy, Eh!

Not exactly a foriegn policy, Med. More like a warning to those regiems who harbor and support terrorists. Kind of like "Support those who fuck with us and we will fuck with you ... except we have the firepower and you don't." Some got the message and others did not.

I think a HUGE mistake that is being made is, the danger isn't Bush, Cheney or Halliburton as the Democrats would have us believe. It is Islamofascists who want to destroy Western culture. That would include killing every woman, man and child in this country. Uhhh ... that would be you and your family, Med.

Vi

The good old bully pulpit! I wonder if diplomacy would be better used as foriegn policy. I think the world has turned a wee bit colder towards us since G.W. brought his cowboy bully philosophy to bear. No-one likes to be told "like it or lump it" " your with us or against us", We don't have to listen to what you've got to say because we know it all! If you were on the recieving end of this dialogue or more accurately Monologue, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it, and you might even listen to radicals in your country that hate the US.

Med ...

I agree with everything you had to say in the above post ... EXCEPT we had 9-11. Times have changed considerably since then, wouldn't you agree?

Vi

Well, not as much as the Govt. would have us think. They ply us with fear daily, one of the first steps toward Dictatorship. Have you noticed that todays passage of an anti-terror act suspends Habeous-Corpus, and allows the Govt. to arrest anyone (even US citizens) and hold them incognito for as long as they want without any court appearance. Does this qualify as an infringement on our freedoms. Who knows what other atrocities are in that piece of legislation. All promulgated by fear. I'm thinking it's getting close to an overthrow of this corrupt government as stated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights! If I don't return to this forum, you'll know the CIA or NSA got me for advocating insurection! Power to the people! "Absolute power corrupts absolutely"!

Well put med.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"!

True words those, and yet, you would be willing to vote for a party on record as supporting ever larger and more powerful government. You've even said it yourself. You'd like to hand over one-seventh of our economy to the government with your socialzed medicine scheme.

It never occurs to the "Do Gooders" that a government holding the power to give you everything, also has the power to take everything away.

Vi

Take away, do you mean like the Bush regime has taken money out of the pockets of middle class Americans to feather the nests of CEOs, like taken away our freedoms with the Patriot act (what a misnomer) and the latest legislation passed yesterday, Habeous Corpus, Gone Taken over 3,000 american lives and untold Iraqis and afganis, 20,000 wounded young americans, taken away their ability to lead a normal life! The list of take aways is too long to list here, but you better believe the majority of Americans have been negatively affected by the Bush regime. I only hope they realize it next month when it's voting time

You are a lost soul.

Vi

ViRedd said:

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"!

True words those, and yet, you would be willing to vote for a party on record as supporting ever larger and more powerful government. You've even said it yourself. You'd like to hand over one-seventh of our economy to the government with your socialzed medicine scheme.

It never occurs to the "Do Gooders" that a government holding the power to give you everything, also has the power to take everything away.

Vi

Click to expand...

Vi your last statement is ludicrous at best, The Government is larger now than it has ever been.

Oh and at least "Do Gooders" as you call them have good intentions. You can't say the same for those who are in office now.

Oh and at least "Do Gooders" as you call them have good intentions. You can't say the same for those who are in office now.

And the Road to Hell is paved with those good intentions, Dank. Not to mention The Road to Serfdom.

Vi

So what the hell are you, a big fucking roadblock, Geez you've got me in the four letter word category again!

medicinaluseonly said:

So what the hell are you, a big fucking roadblock, Geez you've got me in the four letter word category again!

Click to expand...

For the life of me Med ... I don't know why you keep getting upset. I'm being totally honest with you on this board and in this political forum.

As I've said before, I am NOT a Republican, nor did I vote for Bush in either of his elections. I do, however, consider the Democratic Party to be the more dangerous of the two main parties ... BY FAR.

Other than agreeing with every one of your "feelings," how does one have a rational dialoge with you?

Vi

Are you sure the word rational is in your vocabulary. I guess what is "rational" to you is irrational to me, like ying and yang. I doubt if we'll agree on anything political except the few we've already agreed on, lets call a truce. You let me post my opinions without malice and I'll let you post your opinions or others (called facts) the same way. I'll counter your opinions with mine and visa versa. Just quite taking the moral highground and calling all your posts facts and mine bullshit, Deal or no deal!

I'm done addressing your posts directly. I will, however, continue to post my beliefs and they will be backed up with facts. I will continue to post my opinions ... and back them up with what I see as solutions.

I challenge you to do exactly the same. So far, in all of our debates, you have failed to do either.

Vi

Congratulations ViRedd, the owners of this site need to thank you for your recruiting methods. After reading the posts here i was compelled to join and ask a few questions from such an enlightened individual. Firstly i would like to state that i am not attacking you personally, i am questioning your belief because i see it to be based on false assumptions. I respect your right to choose your beliefs and live by them but this respect does not include silence. One final point i would like to mention is why i felt so compelled to reply to your posts. It was your statement that your beliefs have been backed up with facts. In no post (and i read them all) for this topic did i come across one single 'fact' other than the quotes in the first post, outside of that there was only opinion. Since i am not a U.S citizen quoting U.S news reports has no merit to me. Aside from that i believe your posts displayed intelligence so i assume you would agree that news broadcasts essentially misrepresent 'facts' and present 'opinion disguised as fact' quite often to sell their story. For example, you mention of the 'proof' of WMD in Iraq presented by the Bush Administration, i could remark with what we 'outside' the U.S saw and that was other ambassadors asking this administration for proof other than 3D images made on a computer and outdated information to which Cheney got quite redfaced and tempermental. This said here is my challenge, if you would like to debate with me on this '"left" vs "right"' dogma, i will attempt to stick primarily with scholarly articles.
This said, i would like to reitterate that i am not attacking you, but questioning your belief. Ready?

"Congratulations ViRedd, the owners of this site need to thank you for your recruiting methods."

I can see by the above statement at we are off to a great start. I'll take it as a compliment because the owners of the site SHOULD thank me. I've brought a number of new members to the site who were old members of another cannabis site. I've known these folks for a number of years now and they contribute great info in the grow forums.

"Firstly i would like to state that i am not attacking you personally, i am questioning your belief because i see it to be based on false assumptions."

If you can point out false assumptions, please be my guest. I'll try to address each one. On the personal attacks ... if you are of the "leftist" persuasion, to not resort to personal attacks would be a teriffic accomplishment as I've never known a leftist who can refrain from same.

"This said here is my challenge, if you would like to debate with me on this '"left" vs "right"' dogma, i will attempt to stick primarily with scholarly articles.

That's all I've ever asked from anyone in this forum. Have at it. By the way, you'll find many of my views to be quite left of center.

"This said, i would like to reitterate that i am not attacking you, but questioning your belief. Ready?"

Ready is as ready does ... fire away.

Vi

PS: Please don't say that the U.S. Supreme Court "handed the election to Bush."

...i can speak from experience when i say that viredd is the most wishy-washy, irreverant, irascible old coot you'll ever come across...

...actually i'm full of shit...he's actually a right on kinda guy...and that's coming from a guy who disagrees with him most of the time...his idea of discourse is very important no matter your political/ideological affiliations...
EIP

Thank you VERY much. That was nice.

Somehow, I think we've met before. *lol*

Vi

I think we have, I think I'll change my name so you'll have a clear vision of me, no prejudice, No trail overs just the truth as I see it! Of course since this is an opinion forum, The I see it part is first and foremost. Truth is like, "It takes a big dog to weigh 500 lbs", and that is also how I see It!