Panel (NextLight Mega) vs higher power COB

I'm trying to nudge this thread back to the original question and talking about the relative merits of LED builds and DIY configs, not start a "led vs hps" type out-of-control death-spiral. LED has its uses today.

Hey got a bit distracted. But yea. Crazy flame war. Idk man.

I've been looking at those $100 Chinese lights he said dude sold for 450
Lol They look cool to me

goodro wilson said:

I've been looking at those $100 Chinese lights he said dude sold for 450
Lol They look cool to me

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I know, right. The 250W unit claims 90CRI, 170 lm/W and $120 each for a two-pack minimum order. Fuck. $250 for 500W of LED white light.
How bad could it be? Is it a high power replacement for an 80W pair of T12 tubes?
I guess the Phillips SMD 5730 chips are crap? Someone tell me those chips are crap. @robincnn , help!

SaltyNuts said:

The open-source DIY tone of these LED threads has been sullied a bit. You guys who now own companies building lights, dudes, who are now advertisers here, it doesn't look good when you start throwing shit at each other. That's not professional. I don't think you are marketing well by doing that.

Besides if you run the numbers it's apparent that MOST (not all) people might as well just buy CMH 315 or DE HPS 6/750 Flex complete fixtures. That is your real competition, not each-other. Since you are small-scale builders, with many of you still involved somehow in DIY - and lots of tech in common - you would be better off by continuing the open-source spirit and contrasting data with each-other, here on these forums. That's what lent you credibility in the first place. As builders and advertisers you should compete on the level playing field of who offers better build-quality, warranty, service, customization, parts binning, etc.

I'm not saying it's easy, but am I wrong?

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Agreed!

Another facet of this same idea is that the market is too small to be beating up on one another's tech. Building the whole market is therefore the better approach and pays better dividends in the long run.

When LED is the common denominator tech instead of the newcomer, THAT'S the time to engage in product differentiation strategies.

frica said:

It's the same shit when somebody asks for decent LED bulbs in a microgrow.
He'll be bombarbed by expensive/overkill COB panels.

And CMH/DE HPS are indeed great options, and I try to recommend them when somebody is growing in something more than 2x2.
But often people just want led because "muh efficiency" while you can just get more yield by buying a 2nd DE HPS fixture.
And since weed is high value, electricity costs aren't a big factor. (if you're selling it/bigger area) And if you're growing in more than 2x2 it's not just for personal consumption unless you're a hardcore addict.

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The flaw in your logic is 'quality'. Precious few growers try LED and then go back to HID because of the big bump in product quality.

ttystikk said:

The flaw in your logic is 'quality'. Precious few growers try LED and then go back to HID because of the big bump in product quality.

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Most of the people I see switching back to HPS were people who were disappointed in the amount of yield.
Not so much the quality, but rather that they were told that a 400 watt LED could replace their 1000 watt fixture and the yield was just a lot worse.

goodro wilson said:

I've been looking at those $100 Chinese lights he said dude sold for 450
Lol They look cool to me

Click to expand...

if only looks grew weed....

as stephen said his design shared the case and thats about it. theres some nice looking cases that come out of china but its the guts that count

kinda glad i was too busy to be on riu this week... some serious melts here

its sad how vendors bash each other, some people are just obsessive and hyper-competitive i guess

theres room for everybody. its really hard to go wrong with most of the recs in this thread

any of the major mfr cobs that have come out in the last year or so are at least as good as the beloved CXBs and we have a lot more driver and heatsink options than we had back then, and prices have fallen dramatically. its rapidly getting to the point that regardless of which fixture/kit you choose, your skill level and attention to your garden will play a much larger factor than if youre using brand A B or C.

also anybody bashing the quantum boards hasnt tried one... they are great tech and fill a nice niche and are really efficient. just like ETL certs fill a niche for the warehouse grower but most home growers have no use for them

people with a fundamental misunderstanding of light physics will still argue 'penetration issues' with any discrete light emitter under 1000W, thats not going to change for awhile. time for LED boys to band together and overgrow....

frica said:

Most of the people I see switching back to HPS were people who were disappointed in the amount of yield.
Not so much the quality, but rather that they were told that a 400 watt LED could replace their 1000 watt fixture and the yield was just a lot worse.

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Agreed, and it's unfortunate they were taken in by the hype.

Many now try to match output with their HPS keeps and that's better. The ratio with good quality COB LED terms to be 60-65% of the original wattage.

I took a somewhat different path; knowing my HID light intensity was on the weak side, I simply matched watts outright. Thus 5400W of HID, counting ballast losses, became 5400W of COB LED.

Strangely, I still saved on HVAC usage.

CobKits said:

if only looks grew weed....

as stephen said his design shared the case and thats about it. theres some nice looking cases that come out of china but its the guts that count

kinda glad i was too busy to be on riu this week... some serious melts here

its sad how vendors bash each other, some people are just obsessive and hyper-competitive i guess

theres room for everybody. its really hard to go wrong with most of the recs in this thread

any of the major mfr cobs that have come out in the last year or so are at least as good as the beloved CXBs and we have a lot more driver and heatsink options than we had back then, and prices have fallen dramatically. its rapidly getting to the point that regardless of which fixture/kit you choose, your skill level and attention to your garden will play a much larger factor than if youre using brand A B or C.

also anybody bashing the quantum boards hasnt tried one... they are great tech and fill a nice niche and are really efficient. just like ETL certs fill a niche for the warehouse grower but most home growers have no use for them

people with a fundamental misunderstanding of light physics will still argue 'penetration issues' with any discrete light emitter under 1000W, thats not going to change for awhile. time for LED boys to band together and overgrow....

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Wise and insightful commentary, my friend.

2017 will indeed be the year that these second and third generation LED options become a force to be reckoned with in the marketplace.

to be fair to cobs/leds...and the people who try them

there is a learning curve and it has a LOT to do with getting calcium and magnesium to/on them

even just calcium nutrate and epsom..

thats my new years resolution..i hath been lazy in that area

What I don't understand is that the people bashing the QB's will tell you the Nextlight is good. The QB's are basically a next gen Nextlight. The performance will have to be at the bare minimum equal to the Nextlight, at less wattage.

ThaiBaby1 said:

What I don't understand is that the people bashing the QB's will tell you the Nextlight is good. The QB's are basically a next gen Nextlight. The performance will have to be at the bare minimum equal to the Nextlight, at less wattage.

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Fucking Next Light could only WISH for panels this good!

superdang9000 said:

Every thread I stumble upon these days devolves into a massive shit storm. Y'all are some uptight, hateful motherfuckers. Finding any kind of useful information on this site has become nearly impossible... and yet I keep coming back. Guess that makes me the crazy one.

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You're not the only one. I keep coming back too! And you're right. No matter the thread, a few pages in (or posts) someone gets their panties in a wad and the name calling starts, and it turns into a MSS.

Which is ironic when almost everyone here has access to the greatest natural sedative on the planet!

That being said, and the MSSs that keep going on, I have learned more about grow lighting in this section of RIU than in any place on the web...so I'll keep coming back!

BuddyColas said:

You're not the only one. I keep coming back too! And you're right. No matter the thread, a few pages in (or posts) someone gets their panties in a wad and the name calling starts, and it turns into a MSS.

Which is ironic when almost everyone here has access to the greatest natural sedative on the planet!

That being said, and the MSSs that keep going on, I have learned more about grow lighting in this section of RIU than in any place on the web...so I'll keep coming back!

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Lol

I couldn't agree more!

Hey guys thank you for your help!!! I wanted to circle back and share what i've learned thus far.

Ended up going with the 900w Vero29 Timber Led (3500k) dues to adamant/strong feedback.

Positive Impressions:
- aluminum frame is sturdy. also makes it really easy to mount uv lights, a fan, humidistat, etc.
- wiring is insanely nice. feel bad sending it into my wimpy power strip and timer.
- safe and discrete packaging
- slightly different heatsink than in the pict (mines's splayed)
- the dimming is smooth as butter and really handy. the lowest setting is only a few hundred watts (less than 200?) yet possibly bright enough for seedlings.
- i like being able to stick my head through the holes between drivers
- the color temp is warmer than i expected in a good way - pleasant to look at/bask under
- slow but surprising tight inter-nodal growth. better than outdoor plants it seems. WAY better than the window sill with a light 8am - 11pm in my dim appt.

Negative Impressions:
- the should have sanded the corners of the aluminum frame
- the lights NEED air movement. ran them full blast for a half hour and they got insanely hot. at midway they still got really hot. I now try to keep them at medium with a fan blowing in the top of the tent (cheapo but it uses 35 watts). hopefully running the carbon scrubber fan will remedy this/help in flower.
- a few 'blemishes' (holes in odd spots, a rail a tenth shorter than the others, etc). all minor visual issues
- realized a few days later that i could have saved a lot of head ache and money ($170?) putting it together myself
- expensive. payed like $400 more than i would have for a next light. $200 less than fluence. Neither of those have dimmers stock. But i think i got the best light (for the situation/time).

Let me know if anyone has questions.

At some point i want to get a veg/clone light. Still on the fence as to what that setup should look like. Considering going with a 4*2 tent/space. Those quantum boards are on the back of my mind as in the vero. Or even a t5. However, i'll probably stick with the cobs.

Timber's are $600 for 200 watt veros. Found a few cob vendors that are way cheaper. Has anyone dealt with "Rapid LED"? They have a kit for $220. There is also a guy locally who sells 244watt vero29 (4x) lights with active cooling mounted on rails ( search "led cob grow lights" in boston craigslist ).

Any thoughts?

we are leaning towards the 600 watt crees from Timber for our 4x4 space. based on all the data we've read and our experience trying out Timber's 100 watt Crees on an indoor winter grow. We were very happy with the penetration, color spectrum and quality of the product n service Dan provided.

shannonball said:

we are leaning towards the 600 watt crees from Timber for our 4x4 space. based on all the data we've read and our experience trying out Timber's 100 watt Crees on an indoor winter grow. We were very happy with the penetration, color spectrum and quality of the product n service Dan provided.

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7th Gen Vero29Cs (3500k/90CRI) driven at 1670mA put out about 100 more PPFD than Cree CXB3590s (3500k/80CRI) driven at 2150mA. Both are viable. I have 2 Cree units and one Vero. Kind of wish they were all Vero, due to the PPFD.

Olive Drab Green said:

7th Gen Vero29Cs (3500k/90CRI) driven at 1670mA put out about 100 more PPFD than Cree CXB3590s (3500k/80CRI) driven at 2150mA. Both are viable. I have 2 Cree units and one Vero. Kind of wish they were all Vero, due to the PPFD.

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thank you.