Pirates vs. Islamists

abe23

abe23

Active Member
Which is better...?


Somali rebels seize pirate haven
Somali insurgents have taken control of one of the main pirate havens in the south of the country.

Residents said several hundred rebels of the group Hizbul Islam had taken over the coastal town of Haradhere and that the pirates had fled.

Hizbul Islam wants to establish Sharia law and order and put an end to the pirate trade in the town, the leader of the insurgents told the BBC.

Somalia has not had an effective government for nearly 20 years.

One report citing an unnamed pirate said that a Hizbul Islam delegation had visited the town several days ago and demanded a share of the piracy trade. There is no confirmation.

In recent years, pirates have seized dozens of ships in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden.

They have recently expanded the reach of their attacks to avoid patrols by several nations off the Somali coast.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/africa/8657060.stm

Published: 2010/05/02 13:52:23 GMT

© BBC MMX
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Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
The title of the thread is misleading. It should read Islamist Rebels vs. Islamist Pirates: Which is better...?

Somalia is Sunni Muslim. Nothing else is tolerated.

A while back when the Saudi oil tanker was hijacked, Muslims complained. Not about about the act of piracy itself, but about the target of the hijack. Their main objection was that Muslims were stealing from fellow Muslims.

This is an internecine squabble. Let them sort it out themselves.
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
Agreed! We're spending a lot of money propping up the joke that is the national government. We spend money fighting the pirates, we spend money fighting the bearded nut jobs. We gave the ethiopians (africa's biggest army...) money to go fight off the islamic courts. Is there really much of a point to it. Then again....completely withdrawing and letting that shithole of a country go back to complete anarchy isn't great either. Not sure there's a great alternative though.

I'm not sure about the what your saying about the religious aspect. They're all muslims, yes, but tribal and regional issues are a huge deal there. The islamists are just one faction among many and not all or even most somalis are fundamentalist muslims. It's mostly just about money and controlling whatever the local racket is, khat, piracy, arms running...
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
My point was they are all Muslim. Ergo, the original title of the thread was misleading. And in a country where everybody is Muslim, they are all Islamists - as no other system would be accepted save Shaira law.

Fighting amongst themselves in their own country is one thing. The civilized world tried to help back in 1992, but paid the price of being the Good Samaritan in 1993. We ain't going back.

But when the Pirates, Islamic or otherwise, hunt in international waters; well, that is a pig of a different color.

We cannot allow third-world goons to interrupt international commerce.

The U.S. fought two wars against Islamic pirates very early in our history. How do you think the Marine Corps came about? "'...to the shores of Triploi,"
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
Muslim ≠ Islamist, just like christian ≠ 'god hates fags' protester. Kind of an important distinction in my view...

I guess my question was whether from our perspective it's better to let the fundamentalist run these place or the pirates. This is assuming that the bearded crazies won't allow ANY piracy, which might not be the case, you are right.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
abe23 said:
Muslim ≠ Islamist, just like christian ≠ 'god hates fags' protester. Kind of an important distinction in my view...
i think you're taking your political correctness a bit too far. i'd agree that not all islamists or muslims are radicalized or jihadists or any number of other labels the militant arm of that religion uses, but an adherent to islam is an islamist. just as the pope, a quiet protestant school teacher and the westboro lunatics are all united under the label of christian, so too should we realize that the muslim farmer and the suicide bomber have their faith in common.
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Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
abe23 said:
Muslim ≠ Islamist, just like christian ≠ 'god hates fags' protester. Kind of an important distinction in my view...
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In a country where everyone is Sunni Muslim and no other non-Muslim belief is permitted to even exist openly. Yeah, Abe, they are all Islamists. Which is why I don't give two shits what becomes of them intolerant sonsabitches.

Somalia may be in a state of anarchy, but it's Muslim anarchy. Who cares?
abe23 said:
I guess my question was whether from our perspective it's better to let the fundamentalist run these place or the pirates. This is assuming that the bearded crazies won't allow ANY piracy, which might not be the case, you are right.
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Now we're on to something!

Which is better: " I am right and everyone who does not wholeheartedly agree with me is an apostate" Muslim; or Herky-Jerky, Cowboys and Indians, petty warlord-anarchy Muslim?

Meh....

I don't give a rat's ass until the pirates venture into international waters.

Let the Organization of The Islamic Conference and the Red Crescent sort it out.
 
abe23

abe23

Active Member
undertheice said:
abe23 said:
Muslim ≠ Islamist, just like christian ≠ 'god hates fags' protester. Kind of an important distinction in my view...
i think you're taking your political correctness a bit too far. i'd agree that not all islamists or muslims are radicalized or jihadists or any number of other labels the militant arm of that religion uses, but an adherent to islam is an islamist.
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Ok, but that's really just semantics. In the context of the article, 'islamist' was meant to mean muslim extremist fighters. And it's not about political correctness. We can call them jihadi goatfuckers for all I care.

Johnnyorganic said:
In a country where everyone is Sunni Muslim and no other non-Muslim belief is permitted to even exist openly. Yeah, Abe, they are all Islamists. Which is why I don't give two shits what becomes of them intolerant sonsabitches.
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No offense, Johnny, but that's the kind of ignorance about the rest of the world that has us invading iraq because half the country think they had something to do with 9/11. The 'jihadis' are a fairly recent development in somalia's civil war. And there are puntland and somaliland, which have unrecognized governments that are anything but 'islamist'. There's also a dysfunctional national government, which is secular and mostly propped up by christian ethiopia and the west. And there are many muslim countries that have secular, 'non-islamic' governments like turkey, indonesia, egypt. So this idea that being a muslim automatically mean that you're a violent crazy with a beard is a bit off the mark. There are lots of bearded crazies though...

I agree with you on the rest though. Let them sort their shit out and do what we can to protect shipping.
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Handson

Handson

Active Member
doc111 said:
Are you serious?:-?
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Have you seen what we do to their home countries, remember when the Nigerians were in the news for hijacking rigs, same scenario... all about the oil, or when there's something there we want.

Media create a frenzy
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
abe23 said:
No offense, Johnny, but that's the kind of ignorance about the rest of the world that has us invading iraq because half the country think they had something to do with 9/11. The 'jihadis' are a fairly recent development in somalia's civil war. And there are puntland and somaliland, which have unrecognized governments that are anything but 'islamist'. There's also a dysfunctional national government, which is secular and mostly propped up by christian ethiopia and the west. And there are many muslim countries that have secular, 'non-islamic' governments like turkey, indonesia, egypt. So this idea that being a muslim automatically mean that you're a violent crazy with a beard is a bit off the mark. There are lots of bearded crazies though...

I agree with you on the rest though. Let them sort their shit out and do what we can to protect shipping.
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I enjoy how some people draw that ignorance charge like a fucking gun.

Do you think it's some sort of magic fairy dust that will ward off the evil Conservatives?

I thought you were better than that, Abe. :clap:

I am not talking about other Muslim countries. I am talking specifically about Somalia. Even in most other Muslim countries, those who practice other beliefs are at least tolerated as second class citizens (dhimmis).

But I was not referring to other Muslim countries. Just Somalia. Got it?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/so.html
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Handson said:
Have you seen what we do to their home countries, remember when the Nigerians were in the news for hijacking rigs, same scenario... all about the oil, or when there's something there we want.

Media create a frenzy
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I was there in '92/'93. I saw firsthand what "we" did to their country. We delivered food aid and medicine and then attempted to protect the populace from a bunch of greedy goons who wanted to control the people by starving them. We had no economic interest in that country. They don't have any oil. :roll:

Now to deal with your "oil" comment. We do what countries have been doing since the beginning of time..........we protect our economic interests and the interests of our friends. If oil is the interest that needs protecting then so be it. Of course it's a shame that this is how life is but that's reality. Until we evolve a bit more this is how it will continue to be. Unless you are prepared to live like the amish you should be happy we are protecting our interest in oil abroad. :peace:
 
Handson

Handson

Active Member
[video=youtube;bq2TBOHWFRc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq2TBOHWFRc&feature=related[/video]
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
If you hate oil so much you should immediately get rid of your automobiles, don't take public transportation, get rid of all plastics, some chemical fertilizers, cleaning agents, medicines, that computer you're typing on at this moment, and anything else that's been made with oil, or transported by a vehicle that burns oil. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Just remember that as you crusade against the evils of petroleum. :fire:

BTW this video has nothing to do with the thread. Could we try and stay on topic here?
 
Johnnyorganic

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Handson said:
[video=youtube;bq2TBOHWFRc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq2TBOHWFRc&feature=related[/video]
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Donnie, you're out of your element.

The only possible relevance of your input is that Nigeria is just over 50% Muslim.

And you're living in the past. George W. is long gone. That war for oil shtick is so 2004.

Plus, the U.S. is not occupying Nigeria; now or ever.
 
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