Proof of the existence of an intelligent Creator and what His purpose of mankind is

I believe that balance must be in effect in all instances. Although most inmates claim religion, it is just a means to an end. Ofcourse hardened criminals are going to claim some spiritual awakening, its their framework for release. I said that it was a great idea because there is no easier way to persuade human action. This persuausion is the reason for many of societies advances in many aspects. For what religion was designed to do it has done an exceptional job, think of it as a tool.

rookie 420 said:

For what religion was designed to do it has done an exceptional job, think of it as a tool.

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Control, kill, and rape entire populations.
Yes, it does indeed

I agree the plan backfired, religious controversy and all. Every war that I have ever studied, religion was rooted deeply in the bowels of the disagreement. All I'm saying is that it is incredible how many people have bought into it, past and present. Who ever invented religion achieved mass belief, which ultimately was their goal.

rookie 420 said:

I agree the plan backfired, religious controversy and all. Every war that I have ever studied, religion was rooted deeply in the bowels of the disagreement. All I'm saying is that it is incredible how many people have bought into it, past and present. Who ever invented religion achieved mass belief, which ultimately was their goal.

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It's simple. People are lazy.
If you give a lazy person a choice between understanding the molecular interaction between viruses and cells, or the option to just say "demons make people sick", guess which one they'll chose.
It takes seconds to understand the concept of demon. You can indoctrinate it into a child effortlessly. It takes much more work to educate someone in reality.

So while the thread discusses atheism, openly expressing the opinion of non belief, do you think that atheism is a faith? Would you place it congruent with a missionary faith, since believers of a higher divinity are being educated in this thread?

Is not believing in unicorns or gremlins a faith?
No.

Atheism is just the application of common sense regarding imaginary, supernatural creations.

Believing that something is not true is a faith, your faith lies in the fact that there is no higher divinity. What is your opinion on the origin of man (Darwin Theory)?

rookie 420 said:

Believing that something is not true is a faith, your faith lies in the fact that there is no higher divinity. What is your opinion on the origin of man (Darwin Theory)?

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It's not "I believe God is not real", it's "God has not been shown to be real, so I cannot believe in it".

Just like morgen said, being an atheist is the default position to hold, you're an atheist to Thor, Zeus, etc... does it take any faith on your part at all to not believe they exist? Why not? Apply that same logic to the Aberhamic God, and there ya go.

Darwins theory is evolution, which isn't the origin of man. Evolution is common descent with modification. The origin of life is a-biogenesis.

Evolution is a fact. A-biogenesis is a well supported theory.

rookie 420 said:

Believing that something is not true is a faith, your faith lies in the fact that there is no higher divinity. What is your opinion on the origin of man (Darwin Theory)?

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I Believe that the earth isn't flat. Is that a faith?

Think it through ... take ur time.

We choose to believe in Higher Powers of our own understanding even if we cannot yet fully define them.

PadawanBater said:

It's not "I believe God is not real", it's "God has not been shown to be real, so I cannot believe in it".

Just like morgen said, being an atheist is the default position to hold, you're an atheist to Thor, Zeus, etc... does it take any faith on your part at all to not believe they exist? Why not? Apply that same logic to the Aberhamic God, and there ya go.

Darwins theory is evolution, which isn't the origin of man. Evolution is common descent with modification. The origin of life is a-biogenesis.

Evolution is a fact. A-biogenesis is a well supported theory.

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rookie 420 said:

Believing that something is not true is a faith, your faith lies in the fact that there is no higher divinity. What is your opinion on the origin of man (Darwin Theory)?

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Darwin's Theory is actually the Origin of Species via Natural Selection, not just man.

In fact when people bring up Darwin coming up with the idea of evolution, and him just being one man, they're wrong. He didn't. Darwin's work was on the mechanism up evolution. The concept of evolution had existed for hundreds of years, with observations of change in animals going back to the time of the Roman Empire. Darwin just explained how it happened.

It just so happened that he was (mostly) right. He didn't have the information and technology we have today so he made a few errors, but his overall theory and documents were surprisingly insightful.

His theory has been backed up by biological, geological, physical, and many other sciences... even math and computer, via long term simulations of point mutation.

The discovery of DNA was the coup de grace. DNA is not just an unchanging string of data. It is a journal of evolution, with visible edits that can be tracked across editions (species).

There are retroviruses which modify the genetic code of their hosts in specific manners and you can see those modifications in the DNA of branching species. Each edit aligning itself to a specific branch you can follow the lineage of a species back to it's divergence from another.

Of course if all that science is just a conspiracy against Jesus, then all the advances in gene therapy and manipulation is a myth, vaccines don't really exist, and elephants are just mammoths with alopecia.

PadawanBater said:

Evolution is a fact. A-biogenesis is a well supported theory.

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I think it's safe to say that most liars for Jesus don't understand that Evolution, whether you're a Darwinian, Lamarckian, etc. is just change over time.

They don't get that a perfect example of evolution is the average of 150 mutations in male humans each generation.

Or how a gene (or genes) may express itself differently because another gene far away on the helix has changed state due to one of those mutations.

Of course some of them do understand, but realize there's a lot of money to be made off the ones that don't. That's why we have shining examples like the unimpeachable Kent Hovind... sitting in a prison cell. It must be an atheist conspiracy.

Churchers fall into several categories.

manipulators
social networkers
sheep

We all begin with baseline assumptions about the world we live in and see. We don't believe in the existence of absolutely anything, we assume only the things that we have evidence for exist. I don't think that invisible pink unicorns live the clouds unless someone suggests it first. Why assume in a magical being that creates the universe and all life as a baseline assumption? Occam's Razor tells us that things appear to follow certain natural laws. Physics has them, chemistry has them. Biology is just chemistry with carbon based material so the razor cuts toward a naturalistic explanation for the beginning of life (and the universe) as most likely lacking any other evidence. We have strong knowledge of the chemistry of hormones and how fertilized ova form fully functioning beings. Why assume an invisible, all-powerful being controls the other stuff we don't understand? Only religion and pre-science superstition allows for that kind of thought.

There are too many people that think that belief in an invisible being should be the default position and anyone that disagrees must prove non-existence. These are the same folks that claim lack of belief is a religion or faith, they cannot grasp the concept that some people out here would like some evidence in something before they decide to accept it.
If nothing is evidence, then everything is evidence.

rookie 420 said:

Believing that something is not true is a faith, your faith lies in the fact that there is no higher divinity. What is your opinion on the origin of man (Darwin Theory)?

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Evolution is not a belief system or an opinion. It is what empirically we know about how life got to be complex. No one says we know everything about it. We do know that all life forms did not magically appear at one point in history so that leaves out certain mythologies, including the Christian one (only of course if you accept Genesis literally). We do know that all life is related and can be placed in a branching hierarchy along with many extinct lifeforms that we find in fossils and that each extant form came from earlier forms with many diverse groups having common ancestors that can be traced all of the way back to some of the earliest single cell lifeforms.

This isn't another mythology that someone came up with, this is what we find when we look with the tool of science. It is just as real as the knowledge about distance supernovas and the weirdness we find in the subatomic level. It is the basis for all of biology as all biology is evolutionary biology. You cannot teach biology without evolution anymore than you can teach chemistry without atomic theory. Anyone that attempts to say there is an alternate theory must be able to explain everything that evolution explains so well with each new discovery including the explosion of evidence that came after the genetic code was deciphered.

No scientist believes in evolution as the religious believe in their deities. We accept evolution as the best, most consistent model that we have. We don't want to believe evolution is true, we have to believe evolution is true. Nothing else makes as much sense.

Well put.

Science is not in love with evolution, it's just the best explanation. If something else comes along that is a better fit, and is verifiable to a greater accuracy, then IT will be adopted.

So if aliens show up with a mightier version of a G*D, will the religious submit to the new and improved master?

No, Then you'd hear them all screaming for the very same proof we ask of them right now

I believe that religion at this point makes far more since then science as far as how everything got here.Science will never explain how nothing became how it is today. Im sorry but A greater power just makes more since no matter how silly a religion might sound. Every single theory out there all comes back to that one ? which will never be answered by science.Also the thing about a religion such as Judaism it is far more different than other religions. Earlier in this thread someone said that of course an ancient that was frightened would turn to the stars as something to worship,,,,,something they could not understand. But being a Jew would be worshiping a greater power which is unseen.

but you answer nothing buy saying theres a higher power that created everything


thats not an answer its a trick answer, but you never really answerd the real question


because, who created your higher power which you say created all this we see today?

Everything points to a pattern of simple to complex.

A G*D being existing before the simple violates that pattern.

woodds said:

I believe that religion at this point makes far more since then science as far as how everything got here.Science will never explain how nothing became how it is today. Im sorry but A greater power just makes more since no matter how silly a religion might sound. Every single theory out there all comes back to that one ? which will never be answered by science.Also the thing about a religion such as Judaism it is far more different than other religions. Earlier in this thread someone said that of course an ancient that was frightened would turn to the stars as something to worship,,,,,something they could not understand. But being a Jew would be worshiping a greater power which is unseen.

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Religion will not explain it any more than if I say the universe was created in a tin pot by a hunchback with a urinary infection.

First off you're making some pretty ignorant assumptions.

You say "nothing" became what it is today. You make an assumption that there was nothing. You don't know that was ever the case. You just assume that because mundane objects in your life have a beginning and an end in one state that they come from nothing as well. Before you start claiming religion will show how the universe came from "nothing", you might want to prove that "nothing".

You say science will never explain it. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. But you're a bit overconfident in your statement. In the same way that people said science will never prove the earth orbits the sun. Or that man will never make a vehicle that flies. You're a little to eager to throw yourself in with those failures who decry the quest for knowledge.

Not sure what point you're trying to make about Judaism. You don't actually seem to say anything. Judaism just didn't magically appear one day with a magic book filled with rules (contrary to what those three abrahamic religions want you to buy into). Religions evolved from those religions which came before them. Yes, evolved. In the same way that the Protestants came into being because one rich and powerful leader wanted to change some things about his religion to suit his own lifestyle.

The great irony of the bible and the people that worship it is that they might as well go to church on sunday and chant "purple monkey dishwasher" over and over, because that 'telephone game' of time, power hungry leaders, and corruption have them worshipping something as different from the original as we are from our cousins the Bonobos.


Religion has the answers to the universe. Right. Don't make me vomit.