Rand paul wins

Maybe we could start by figuring out to collect taxes from large businesses instead of giving them tax breaks for everything. Also, in terms of your federal tax dollar, at least half of it goes to financing warfare. I know all you right-wingers on the tea party bandwagon are all up in arms about your taxes being spent on getting people access to healthcare....many of us feel the same way about funding things gitmo, the iraq war or secret torture centers in lithuania. It's funny that in a thread about ron paul's son winning a primary, none of the pseudo-libertarian conservative tea partiers are willing to discuss the cost of our overseas empire...

abe23 said:

Maybe we could start by figuring out to collect taxes from large businesses instead of giving them tax breaks for everything. Also, in terms of your federal tax dollar, at least half of it goes to financing warfare. I know all you right-wingers on the tea party bandwagon are all up in arms about your taxes being spent on getting people access to healthcare....many of us feel the same way about funding things gitmo, the iraq war or secret torture centers in lithuania. It's funny that in a thread about ron paul's son winning a primary, none of the pseudo-libertarian conservative tea partiers are willing to discuss the cost of our overseas empire...

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We did discuss bringing home the soldiers home. Your left/right mindset blinds your objectivity. Maybe you should stop focusing on whether someone is left/right/libertarian or whatever and focus on what they are saying instead of who is saying it.
In fact libertarians speak about ending the Iraq war and bringing home our soldiers. Have you ever actually listened to Ron Paul? That is one of his main points is to bring home all the soldiers and protect American soil not Iraqi soil.

In the eternal words of my hero Bruce Lee,
Don't think, feel!
It is like a finger pointing away to the moon.
Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.

just get some civil war already would you...

kendothegreenwizard said:

We did discuss bringing home the soldiers home. Your left/right mindset blinds your objectivity. Maybe you should stop focusing on whether someone is left/right/libertarian or whatever and focus on what they are saying instead of who is saying it.
In fact libertarians speak about ending the Iraq war and bringing home our soldiers. Have you ever actually listened to Ron Paul? That is one of his main points is to bring home all the soldiers and protect American soil not Iraqi soil.

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For sure, I get sick of all the political labels that get thrown around this site. People spend to much time trying to categorize and put down others instead of debating the real issues.

Fat people eat more food. By extension their increased food consumption leads to more use of the roads, via more trucking.
Should fat people be taxed more?

Rob Roy said:

Fat people eat more food. By extension their increased food consumption leads to more use of the roads, via more trucking.
Should fat people be taxed more?

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Of course? Just as they should have to buy 2 seats on an airplane.
Speaking of more... by extension ignorant people take up precious time with the need for explaining things over and over and should also be taxed more for their erronious waste of time.
And while we are at it lets not forget those who make non-sequitur posts, they should be taxed more for their waste of other time reading them.

Banditt said:

For sure, I get sick of all the political labels that get thrown around this site. People spend to much time trying to categorize and put down others instead of debating the real issues.

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Too many fall into the trap of divide and conquer. The 2 party system is designed to divide and conquer.

kendothegreenwizard said:

We did discuss bringing home the soldiers home. Your left/right mindset blinds your objectivity. Maybe you should stop focusing on whether someone is left/right/libertarian or whatever and focus on what they are saying instead of who is saying it.
In fact libertarians speak about ending the Iraq war and bringing home our soldiers. Have you ever actually listened to Ron Paul? That is one of his main points is to bring home all the soldiers and protect American soil not Iraqi soil.

In the eternal words of my hero Bruce Lee,
Don't think, feel!
It is like a finger pointing away to the moon.
Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.

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Huh...? Are you even paying attention? I'm just pointing out that a lot of 'libertarians' have more of a problem with social security than with the defense budget, despite that latter making up 50% of your tax dollar. Of course there are people who genuinely believe in smaller government, like ron paul and his fans, but too many are 'libertarian/conservative' meaning that they oppose everything the government does when a democrat is in office and support trampling on people's civil rights at home and fighting wars overseas when it's a republican. This is the majority of the tea party movement. If there were really that many people who are 'libertarians' ron paul would have been the GOP nominee in 2008.

Requiring people to carry around their IDs because they might suspected of being illegal migrants is something any honest libertarian would oppose. The same goes for the right to have an abortion, the right of gays and lesbians to marry and adopt and cannabis prohibition. There needs to be a litmus test for tea partiers...if you think the government has the right to tax you to fund overseas wars, but not to fund healthcare, then chances are you aren't a libertarian.

NoDrama said:

Why would I pay to stay somewhere when I am the owner? The government doesn't "OWN" these things you talk about, You and I own them.

Im all for zero income tax, go back to the days before 1913.

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Question for you: How does the park get its funding without any tax revenue? Is it privatized? If so, you just echoed some of the funniest words ever. I hope you watch Parks & Rec....

Ron Swanson: I think the entire government should be privatized. Chuck E. Cheese could run the parks. Everything operated by tokens. Drop in a token, go on the swing set. Drop in another token, take a walk. Drop in a token, look at a duck.

dukeofbaja said:

I hardly can see how you can support someone at the poverty line paying the same percentage as someone sailing yachts, for a number of reasons. That person sailing yachts, who has accumulated such wealth, is not being punished for making more, as they would selfishly argue, but rather are paying back to the infrastructure that allowed them to become wealthy. Not to mention that 10% of 15,000 is forcing poverty dude to decide between toiletries and food, while 10% of 150,000 is deciding between an Infiniti and a Lexus, and 10% of 1.5 million is deciding between vacation home in Costa Rica or Belize.

I guess you should count yourself with Buchanan and Glenn Beck on this one....

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I agree on a flat tax except for food and medicine. Not taxing these items would help the poor an elderly imo.

Gorac said:

He opposes the DOE because it is an unecessary middle man.
All it does is take money and redistribute to the states, which then redistributes it locally.
Why? Why the need to add so many unecessary layers of government? Why not completely eliminate federal income tax burdens, and then individual states can set their tax structures , as well the level of services, themselves. That way if you dont like your state you can move to another one that fits your lifestyle better.
Right now I pay way more federal tax than state tax. It should be the opposite.
This is the way our country is supposed to be. A REPUBLIC of indivdual states.


Return the majority of governing powers to the states. The way it is supposed to be.

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Nailed it, welcome to the forums.

abe23 said:

Huh...? Are you even paying attention? I'm just pointing out that a lot of 'libertarians' have more of a problem with social security than with the defense budget, despite that latter making up 50% of your tax dollar. Of course there are people who genuinely believe in smaller government, like ron paul and his fans, but too many are 'libertarian/conservative' meaning that they oppose everything the government does when a democrat is in office and support trampling on people's civil rights at home and fighting wars overseas when it's a republican. This is the majority of the tea party movement. If there were really that many people who are 'libertarians' ron paul would have been the GOP nominee in 2008.

Requiring people to carry around their IDs because they might suspected of being illegal migrants is something any honest libertarian would oppose. The same goes for the right to have an abortion, the right of gays and lesbians to marry and adopt and cannabis prohibition. There needs to be a litmus test for tea partiers...if you think the government has the right to tax you to fund overseas wars, but not to fund healthcare, then chances are you aren't a libertarian.

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As with so many when you are shown the error of your post you do not take the time to STOP and recognize, you move on to trying to prove your right instead of taking a look at where you were wrong.
Your first post was in regards to the defense budget and how we were not discussing the defense budget. I quote "It's funny that in a thread about ron paul's son winning a primary, none of the pseudo-libertarian conservative tea partiers are willing to discuss the cost of our overseas empire... " You were wrong, we did discuss the defense budget and yet when presented with that fact you sidestep and attempt to ellude that i was the one not paying attention. LOL
You are way too busy pointing fingers and erroniously labeling anyone that is not lockstep with your agenda.
Your positions are really pretty far reaching and more opinion than fact. Ron Paul was the candidate of choice by more than just libertarians and yet the 2 party system will not give him the opportunity to upset the apple cart. Your assertion that if there were so many ," Libertarians" Ron Paul would have been the GOP candidate shows a very limted understanding of the system as it works. The choice for GOP candiadate is not in the hands of the people, it is in the hands Of the RNC.
Based on what you provide in your non-factual opinion I wonder what do you even know about the teaparty besides what you hear from the media that is against them.
Your opinion that the liberrtarians support trampling on peoples civil rights is ridiculous at best and shows how skewed your attitudes really are.

I do not support overseas wars or the mandated healthcare as it sits. I support Abortion rights and gay marriage and the right to adopt. How does you skewed labeling system work with that. I must be a teaparty person because I do not support healthcare mandates..Right? and I can't be a libretarian because I support abortion and gay marriage . Quite confusing to someone who so readily labels others so easily. Lions and Tigers and bears, OH MY!!!


Why should any libertarians be against a law that is a part of federal or state law? because you say so?
If you drive a car you are required to have a license in your possesion, Fact1
If you do not have one on you, you are then required to at least present verbal evidence of who you are, further the officer has the duty to investigate if what you are saying is true. FACT2
If you are a mexican national or naturalized citizen you are required to have paperwork and or a green card in your possesion at ALL TIMES as well as a drivers license. Fact3
If during a lawful encounter an Officer cannot establish the identity of an individual and have reasonable suspicion that the individual is in this country illegally they have the duty to investigate further. Fact4.
These last 2 laws are not Arizonas laws they are the federal laws that have been on the books for decades and are being enforced duly ny Arizona Fact5

Maybe you should apply your so called litmus test to yourself for once.and stop pointing fingers and labeling everyone who does not fall lockstep with your opinions.

TheDemocrat said:

Rand Paul's civil rights stand embarrasses tea party

Read more: http://voices.kansascity.com/node/9061#ixzz0oUwY2QEw
​

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You know you posting that story 3 times now that the story is about as slanted an OP-Ed as could be. The story comes right out and calls Rand a racist when he remarks more than a few times that he is not a racist and that he would have marched with Martin Luther King.
His stance does not ever. not once imply that he is a racist, what his stance implies is that he does not approve of goverments far reaching influence into private business. There is a difference between not approving of a policy that stops racist actions and being a racist you know. I do not approve of Affirmative action. Am i a racist. the stance of the author would attempt to imply such.

Dr. Paul is on CNN clarifying his position right now FYI. He's holding his own and shooting down the misinformation.

No it does not embarrasse the tea party at all....

He explained what he meant perfectly well enough even for the thick headed dems to get..

Mindmelted said:

No it does not embarrasse the tea party at all....

He explained what he meant perfectly well enough even for the thick headed dems to get..

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I agree with you. Rachel Madcow was playing the same game as Hannity and O rielly do. Badger and insinuate.

Right on the money..

Damn,we agree...

kendothegreenwizard said:

As with so many when you are shown the error of your post you do not take the time to STOP and recognize, you move on to trying to prove your right instead of taking a look at where you were wrong.
Your first post was in regards to the defense budget and how we were not discussing the defense budget. I quote "It's funny that in a thread about ron paul's son winning a primary, none of the pseudo-libertarian conservative tea partiers are willing to discuss the cost of our overseas empire... " You were wrong, we did discuss the defense budget and yet when presented with that fact you sidestep and attempt to ellude that i was the one not paying attention. LOL
You are way too busy pointing fingers and erroniously labeling anyone that is not lockstep with your agenda.
Your positions are really pretty far reaching and more opinion than fact. Ron Paul was the candidate of choice by more than just libertarians and yet the 2 party system will not give him the opportunity to upset the apple cart. Your assertion that if there were so many ," Libertarians" Ron Paul would have been the GOP candidate shows a very limted understanding of the system as it works. The choice for GOP candiadate is not in the hands of the people, it is in the hands Of the RNC.
Based on what you provide in your non-factual opinion I wonder what do you even know about the teaparty besides what you hear from the media that is against them.
Your opinion that the liberrtarians support trampling on peoples civil rights is ridiculous at best and shows how skewed your attitudes really are.

I do not support overseas wars or the mandated healthcare as it sits. I support Abortion rights and gay marriage and the right to adopt. How does you skewed labeling system work with that. I must be a teaparty person because I do not support healthcare mandates..Right? and I can't be a libretarian because I support abortion and gay marriage . Quite confusing to someone who so readily labels others so easily. Lions and Tigers and bears, OH MY!!!


Why should any libertarians be against a law that is a part of federal or state law? because you say so?
If you drive a car you are required to have a license in your possesion, Fact1
If you do not have one on you, you are then required to at least present verbal evidence of who you are, further the officer has the duty to investigate if what you are saying is true. FACT2
If you are a mexican national or naturalized citizen you are required to have paperwork and or a green card in your possesion at ALL TIMES as well as a drivers license. Fact3
If during a lawful encounter an Officer cannot establish the identity of an individual and have reasonable suspicion that the individual is in this country illegally they have the duty to investigate further. Fact4.
These last 2 laws are not Arizonas laws they are the federal laws that have been on the books for decades and are being enforced duly ny Arizona Fact5

Maybe you should apply your so called litmus test to yourself for once.and stop pointing fingers and labeling everyone who does not fall lockstep with your opinions.

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And maybe you shouldn't assume that everything anyone ever says applies to you alone. I don't know you...maybe you are a ron paul diehard who gave money and time when he was running for president two years ago. What I'm saying is that a lot of the 'libertarians' in the tea party are really just conservative republicans who are pissed off that the democrats are in office and are against 'big government' even though they supported everything the bush administration did. I'm not saying that you are one of these people, but a lot of the tea party is made of this sort of hypocrite. They support the 'war on terrorism' and the drug war, but don't want their taxes going towards subsidizing healthcare for poor people. And I have friends who are tea partiers and even went to a rally for shits and giggles. There's definitely some of them who are genuine, but for the most part it really seems like a whole bunch of conservatives who are angry that the other guy won the election. There was no tea party after W got a second term in 2004....

But yeah, good for you if you're 'the real deal'. But so you know, there are people out there who are libertarians about things they consider good (guns, snowmoblies in national parks, gambling lower taxes) but conservative when it comes to the rest (pot, prostitution or torturing terror suspects for example, overseas war)....these people are hypocrites. And yes, you might have mentioned defense spending and the warfare state but it was hardly the crux of the discussion. It's a lot of what ron paul talks about and it's probably the reason the republican mainstream hates him so much.

As for the immigration law, I do think it goes against a lot of the principles of freedom to require people to be able to prove their immigration status to the police at all times. The newer version does improve things, but i don't think it's right to require people to carry documents to prove they are a citizen or a legal resident. I also dislike the idea of a national ID card for the same reason even if there is an obvious advantage to all these things for law enforcement, whether they are dealing with immigration or criminal offenses. I've lived in a number of countries where there is no bill of rights and the police can search you and ask for ID without any reason. America is different and I think we should keep it that way.