Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

Cann

Cann

Well-Known Member
as far as the whole ROLS cost thing goes.....


So far this month I have spent $12 on diastatic malt powder......thats it.

the last few months the only things I have purchased are aloe powder ($20), Agsil 16H powder ($30), and a gallon of Ful-Power ($35)

less than $100 this cycle.....

as far as free things go....homemade EWC, comfrey and horsetail from my yard, crab shell from alaskan king crab (bartered w/ a fisherman :)), rock dust from local quarries...and tons of free biomass everywhere for my compost pile/wormbin. there are tons of goodies out there if you look. in theory one could build their own soil from scratch for extremely cheap (the cost of neem meal).


if I was trying to build a soil mix from scavenged materials here is what I would do:

1/3 homemade compost or EWC (collect biomass and such from local areas to compost...a few months later you have quality compost...even better if you throw amendments into the compost (rock dust, kelp, crab, etc.)
1/3 leaf mold (collect leaves from peoples lawns and parks...let sit for a few months, tada.)
1/3 pumice, lava rock, rice hulls, or some sort of aeration material (chances are you can find one of these things for free at a local park...sometimes railroads are lined w/ lava rock...if not, rice hulls are about $10 for 6 cuft, pumice is $8 for 50lbs....pretty damn cheap IMO)

there is your base soil....dirt cheap :mrgreen:

per cuft:

4 cups rock dust mix (quarry fines, fine screened clay from local topsoil, oyster shell powder (mortar and pestle and oyster shells...if you have the time for that...))
1/2 cup kelp meal (take a trip to the beach and scrounge up some brown seaweed)
1/2 cup crab meal (have a tasty crab dinner...or if you're trying to be super cheap go to the beach and look for crab or lobster shell remains...you could also go to a place like red lobster and ask them for their shells hehe...i'm sure theyd be happy to oblige..although those might not be the highest quality shells...)
1/2 cup neem meal (this is probably the only one you can't find locally.....unless you live in india...)


if you don't consider the amount of labor that would go into this, the price would be about $15 for lots of soil...as much as you could make with 5lbs. of neem seed meal...over 10cuft easily...

or you could go out and buy compost, EWC, peat, pumice, kelp, crab, neem, rock dust, etc.....definitely expensive at first...but either way by the third cycle it is virtually free to maintain.
 
GreenSanta

GreenSanta

Well-Known Member
yeah I dont mind the initial cost, ... basically I was curious to know how many of us were doing ROLS without spending money. I have a lot of SuperSoil right now, and I still have a lot of amendments as well as 2 x 3.8cu.ft. of fresh promix. My goal is to go for more than a year without spending any money. I encourage you to ask me how this goal of mine is going 6 months from now :eyesmoke:

Basically the only things that I will have to spend money on are power and ladybugs/nematodes. And if all goes well with the LEDs, the only other expense 18 months from now will be new air filters.

Why is NEEM so important to you Cann? It has always been part of my mix but you make it sound like you would never attempt growing without it !?
 
dl290485

dl290485

Well-Known Member
Hey i'm looking to see what I can get in the way of 'rock dust'. Some guy on a facebook local gardening page says he has some but doesn't know what it is. All he could tell me is that it has a mineral reading:
" it has calcium 5%, Phosphorus .08%, Sulphur .04%, Potassium 3%, Magnesium 2.5%, Silicon 25%, Iron 5.5% and it contains a biological stimulant for worms and microbe activity."
Is that at all like what i'm looking for? Otherwise what rocks specifically should I ask for at a quarry- and what does each rock do? (in case I can't get it and need to substitute).

Also can someone help me clarify the difference between leaf mold and compost?
Sorry if that's a stupid question.

One more question, where should i look to find pumice stone? (to buy it.. no the train yard..)
A quarry? Or is this like a landscaping product?

yeah i'm clueless
 
dl290485

dl290485

Well-Known Member
Mohican said:
Orange County Farm Supply has pumice.
Click to expand...
...honestly what made you so sure that out of all the places man has inhabited on earth that I would be in Orange County?

I'm not even on that side of the earth.

I'm not asking for a particular store like "wall mart" but a type like "quarry" or "landscaping supplies" etc. I'm assuming its sold for uses other than gardening and haven't seen it in any gardening stores
 
NickNasty

NickNasty

Well-Known Member
dl290485 said:
Hey i'm looking to see what I can get in the way of 'rock dust'. Some guy on a facebook local gardening page says he has some but doesn't know what it is. All he could tell me is that it has a mineral reading:
" it has calcium 5%, Phosphorus .08%, Sulphur .04%, Potassium 3%, Magnesium 2.5%, Silicon 25%, Iron 5.5% and it contains a biological stimulant for worms and microbe activity."
Is that at all like what i'm looking for? Otherwise what rocks specifically should I ask for at a quarry- and what does each rock do? (in case I can't get it and need to substitute).

Also can someone help me clarify the difference between leaf mold and compost?
Sorry if that's a stupid question.

One more question, where should i look to find pumice stone? (to buy it.. no the train yard..)
A quarry? Or is this like a landscaping product?

yeah i'm clueless
Click to expand...
So I don't know where you are or what kind of rock dust the facebook guy has and I am not a rock dust expert at all but I can tell you what I know and it may help you a bit. So with rock dusts in general you want to find dust with a broad spectrum of trace minerals there are a couple types you can usually find in grow stores or special order like Azomite and Glacial Rock Dust. Now these are fairly expensive compared to rock dust you will get at a quarry but they are already analyzed are very broad spectrum and can be gotten at a bunch of different stores or shipped anywhere and average at about a 1-1.50$ lb shipped. I would say for most growers this is a good option because they don't need a lot. If you do need a lot then going to a quarry may be a better option. I know Basalt is pretty broad spectrum and granite has high potassium. If I were going to a quarry I would ask them for a very fine material you can add to your soil as a source of plant mineral nutrients and if they don't know look to see if they have any river and seashore gravel dust as it will probably be from a bunch of different types of rocks and then more likely to be broad spectrum. BTW they will probably not call it dust but something else but it should be super fine like flour.
Here is a good place to get Azomite if you need it shipped it's like 45$ for 35lbs shipped.
http://www.rootnaturally.com/store/10-azomite-rock-dust use promo code growingyourgreens for 10% off to make it 40.50$ shipped

Now to Leaf Mold vs Compost: Leaf mold is leaves that have started breaking down but have not finished usually the leaves will almost be black in color sometimes you can actually see strings of mold growing on them. Usually you will find these in the forest or under some trees blown up against a neighbors fence who doesn't rake their yard. It has fairly good aeration adds good bacteria and fungus and is lightweight among other things. This can be added to your soil, compost or worm bin and is a nice addition to all. Compost is usually more then just composted leaves and comes from a variety plants and is more nutrient diverse. It is also usually better the more diverse it is which is one of the reasons it is usually better to make your own.

As far as pumice goes I haven't yet been able to find it in my location but places I would look are landscaping suppliers, nurseries, maybe a quarry... It is basically just a type of lava rock thou so don't get too hung up on it there are many other types of stone - lava and others you can substitute in its place. I use lava sand and rice hulls now but most of my soil still has plenty of perlite in it which I am trying to phase out but I will not go and strain it out because it is not really hurting anything it's just not as good as other products.

Anyway hopes this helps you and others!
 
Shwagbag

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
For all things organic, check out kelp4less on ebay. Great vendor with a wide selection of products. I've bought a lot of stuff from them over the years to use in my super soil and recycling efforts.
 
jubiare

jubiare

Active Member
Its not so about the npk of things in reality.. That part is pumped up by the masses flaw from the bottle industries

I am getting to realise this lately
 
GreenSanta

GreenSanta

Well-Known Member
Headtreep, I noticed from looking at your pictures that you are doing ROLS in small containers? Anyway, recently I thought of a way to do ROLS for small containers!

So I have 2 ROLS small containers going atm. One reason why this might work better for some people ( the small containers...) is not only for small space but for people who, like me, grow multiple strains all the time, it's way better when you can move your plants around.

Anyway, what I have done with the 2 ROLS small containers is simple. I harvest a plant grown in my own SS, instead of replanting and top dressing, I flip the container upside down (a bit harder with smart pots but I did it!) and empty the container very gently, making sure not to disturb what was in the container ... if you know what i mean ... then I prune some of the roots that were there.

After I simply put 1/4 to 1/3 fresh supersoil (eventually will be using compost) at the bottom of the container and I put the soil that was in there in the first place right on top. This way the soil is still very much alive, the upper layer is very mild in nutrient but rich in microbes, and I believe it will help grow healthier plants.

What do you guys think?
 
dl290485

dl290485

Well-Known Member
I was at the big hardware/garden store looking for a perlite replacement and although they didnt have rice hulls or pumice stone i did find something called Scoria... So does any know about it? I've done some googling but haven't really found much in the way of good info.
Is it going to be good as 1/3 of my soil as aeration and drainage?
Also i'll attach a photo of what it looks like because I need to know if the rock size is too large or not.

The photo has a tape measure using cm.. but since you use inches or what ever in the US i've put a regular sized marball in the photo for perspective.
scoria.jpg
 
dl290485

dl290485

Well-Known Member
Those pages don't have any info on how it's used in a horticultural context.

So far I only know that it's not as porous as pumice stone and that it has some water retention properties- but I have no idea what that is like in comparison with perlite. For all I know perlite is wetter.
I've just realised it's common name is 'lava rock' and i'm now looking into google results for that.

I need to know the following: 1. Is it going to provide enough aeration when used in a mix of 1/3 coco coir, 1/3 EWC, 1/3 scoria? 2. Are the pieces too large?
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
It's not really used in gardening. Pumice is less dense then water and scoria is denser than water because it has larger gas bubbles inside the rock than pumice. It's mainly used for filling pot holes and used to dump on muddy or icy roads to gain traction for tractor trailers and diggers and excavators etc.....
 
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