Reeferman seeds

I heard this latest reincarnation was just a scam to use the bit of cred his name carried.

Where did you hear this? Heard that back in the day, this Sour D was good and Harmony was killer. Actually looked over his strains b/c of the link posted.

Dank is dank but I dont see a lot of the strains he was famous for. Smells fishy.

colocowboy said:

I heard this latest reincarnation was just a scam to use the bit of cred his name carried.

Click to expand...

Did they used the "cred" that his named carried to appeal to all the racists that buy seeds?
The reason Reeferman's gear disappeared is because it became common knowledge that he's a white supremacist and the Canadian leader of the racist Church of Christ in Israel.
I don't care how much "fire" or "dank" his seeds could've grown for me, fuck racists, and their hate.

Ya, that must be what was inferred!
You better check yourself before accusing me you cockhead...........

Bad Karma said:

Did they used the "cred" that his named carried to appeal to all the racists that buy seeds?
The reason Reeferman's gear disappeared is because it became common knowledge that he's a white supremacist and the Canadian leader of the racist Church of Christ in Israel.
I don't care how much "fire" or "dank" his seeds could've grown for me, fuck racists, and their hate.

Click to expand...

Where did this bit come from? How can the guy be a leader (let alone "the" leader) of a Canadian Church in Israel when he's not in Israel?

You know its pretty easy to yell "racist". Have you ever actually met the guy? Do have ANY evidence that this is true?

I don't know Reeferman, have never met him, but in fairness to him:

He's never denied his involvement with white supremacist groups; his parents were prominent Canadian white supremacists, and he was raised that way. That's not good, but its hardly news, and since the guy didn't get to choose his parents, I don't think its fair to hold his background against him.

He's publically repudiated all the racism of his upbringing, said that being involved in the cannabis movement has completely changed his mind on this stuff, and has claimed that he hasn't had any contact with anyone in the Canadian White Supremacy movement in over ten years. Supposedly they weren't too keen on him being involved in the cannabis business either. This was last year. If this guy were actually the head of some racist organization, you'd think it would be pretty easy to prove it, no?

The reason his gear disappeared is because HE disappeared. He left Canada entirely, and spent the last several years with is family in India and Latin America moving around. Why did he do this? IIRC, he won't say. Again, if I remember right, he's vaguely alluded to medical problems, but I suspect the real reason was him trying to outrun either legal or financial troubles (or maybe both).

In any case, you can hear his side of things in this podcast from Danny Danko at High Times magazine starting at 21:30 in.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/free-weed-episode-20

Whether you're a "fan" of his genetics or not, I'd say this is an absolutely fascinating interview, and one of the best (if not THE best) of the entire "Free Weed" series.

Apparently before Reeferman became a name cannabis breeder, the guy was actually a professional PIG breeder who created some award winning line of pigs! He also goes into good detail about breeding, landrace genetics, why he thinks they've mostly been tapped out at this point, and why most people who think they want to be growing landraces, probably really don't.

colocowboy said:

I heard this latest reincarnation was just a scam to use the bit of cred his name carried.

Click to expand...

What I can say is that the guy is (or at least was) a real breeder, not some clueless "pollen chucker." The guy really does know his stuff, and by reputation at least some of his original lines were excellent. So I think he did actually earn his cred, once upon a time.

Again, I don't know how good his current lines are, but there are a few red flags there.

First of all, he's got 40+ strains on offer now. I don't know how a guy can be basically entirely absent from the cannabis scene for several years, back for only a few, then come back with that many lines of quality.

I'd have to imagine that most of these are either lines he didn't really breed at all, just attached his name too, or ones he barely worked. Doesn't necessary mean they're bad, but they may not be stable and they may be substantially similar or identical to strains from other breeders.

I also note that Willie Nelson, one of his signature strains, appears to be absent from his catalog. Given that its an award winning and famous strain, this strikes me as pretty odd. Why is this one gone?

I could imagine Nelson himself asking Reeferman to stop using the name, but I frankly doubt Nelson really minds that an award winning cannabis strain was named after him (especially if the story that it actually is his favorite strain is true)! If this were the case, you'd think Reeferman would have just renamed it (eg, I'd call it "Nillie Welson"). If he's lost the parent stock, how can he offer "Black Willie" which is a cross with WN and Vietnamese?

Anyway, he's got a couple of lines on offer, that look interesting to me (including the Black Willie), but not so much that I'd want to take a chance without seeing some reviews/reports first, especially on sativa-heavy stuff that may not be so easy to grow. The fact that these are only on offer from one site is also a bit of a turnoff.

I miss his phenom phen sp? whatever it was..lol...that was some TRIPPY ASS WEED

From what reef posted on another forum these cats promised him the world and all was good until money time then excuses...

The site/company owners said Reef took the money and ran...

So likely the truth is they tried to burn each other...lmao

Bad Karma said:

Did they used the "cred" that his named carried to appeal to all the racists that buy seeds?
The reason Reeferman's gear disappeared is because it became common knowledge that he's a white supremacist and the Canadian leader of the racist Church of Christ in Israel.
I don't care how much "fire" or "dank" his seeds could've grown for me, fuck racists, and their hate.

Click to expand...

colocowboy said:

Ya, that must be what was inferred!
You better check yourself before accusing me you cockhead...........

Click to expand...

Coloco, I wasn't accusing you of anything.
Yours was just the last message in the thread, so I used it as a jumping in point.
Relax there fella.

Jogro said:

Where did this bit come from? How can the guy be a leader (let alone "the" leader) of a Canadian Church in Israel when he's not in Israel?

You know its pretty easy to yell "racist". Have you ever actually met the guy? Do have ANY evidence that this is true?

I don't know Reeferman, have never met him, but in fairness to him:

He's never denied his involvement with white supremacist groups; his parents were prominent Canadian white supremacists, and he was raised that way. That's not good, but its hardly news, and since the guy didn't get to choose his parents, I don't think its fair to hold his background against him.

He's publically repudiated all the racism of his upbringing, said that being involved in the cannabis movement has completely changed his mind on this stuff, and has claimed that he hasn't had any contact with anyone in the Canadian White Supremacy movement in over ten years. Supposedly they weren't too keen on him being involved in the cannabis business either. This was last year. If this guy were actually the head of some racist organization, you'd think it would be pretty easy to prove it, no?

Click to expand...

Jogro, you imply that he's NOT a racist in your first couple of sentences, question where I get off using them term, but then proceed to tell us about Reeferman's white supremacist parents and upbringing?
Your logic never ceases to amaze me, it's truly dizzying.

I ran the willie a few years back and was a little disappointed. $100 for 10 beans - 4 were girls, all totally different phenos. they flowered between 10-14 weeks and just didn't live up to the hype. it was ok, definitely looked a lot better when I had smoked all my other flavors - not good enough to do again or recommend. If I gotta wait 14 weeks then I want something outrageous! I dunno, they grew in a cold environment and maybe that kept them from realizing their true potential. I know I didn't blow past it because I sampled them frequently after 10 weeks.

Bad Karma said:

Jogro, you imply that he's NOT a racist in your first couple of sentences, question where I get off using them term, but then proceed to tell us about Reeferman's white supremacist parents and upbringing?
Your logic never ceases to amaze me, it's truly dizzying.

Click to expand...

Since you're apparently confused, I'll explain.

Yeah, the guys parents are racists and he grew up with racists; he fully admits that. That doesn't mean that today as an adult over 20 years later, HE is.

You really can't see the difference? Or in your mind, its impossible for someone to mature as a person and have different beliefs as an adult than as a child?

Again, the guy has said publically that he's severed all ties with all supremacist groups, hasn't had any contact with any of them in many years, and doesn't believe what they preach. Don't take my word for it, listen to the link above and hear this guys side of his story.

Since you apparently don't know what that means, let me point it out to you. These groups are like gangs. When you're affiliated with a racist group like this, publically repudiating the group typically means that YOU become their target. So you don't do it unless you REALLY mean it and want to be done with them permanently.

Again, do you have any evidence to back up your accusations? Do you know Reeferman personally? Ever seen or heard him make. . .you know. . .an actual racist remark? If not, is it really appropriate for you to be making these sorts of claims?

[Reeferman is] the Canadian leader of the racist Church of Christ in Israel.

Click to expand...

This statement is so frankly bizarre, its hard to wrap my head around it. Where did you hear this one?

I mean if this guy is actually the HEAD (not just a member!) of a particular racist church, that should be a pretty easy thing to prove, right?

Have you actually been to this church, let alone seen him there? Where is it located? Israel? Canada? Somewhere else? What's its address and phone number?

Or is it possible that this claim is just a "little bit" ridiculous, and maybe you shouldn't be repeating it with a straight face?

Note that I'm not saying jack here about Reeferman or his beans. I've never met the guy and I don't know what's in his head. I've also never tried his genetics, and have some reason to be skeptical about their quality (see above). From what I've seen/heard its pretty clear the guy has some serious personal issues. But with respect solely to the allegation of racism, particularly given that he's been pretty upfront and public about his side of the story, until I see some scrap of evidence of actual racist behavior or belief, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jogro,

As for the part about the church it was originally in a post by Brick Top. (source post #66 https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/425500-mr-nice-ssh-sannies-7.html)

Charles Scott, known as Reeferman, was a white supremacist, not a member of the KKK or a leader of the KKK. Charles Scott (Reeferman) was the Canadian leader of the racist Church of Christ in Israel.

Click to expand...

As for Reeferman, I don't trust him, I have a hard time believing that he's had a full change of heart.
The mark of any good con is to have details that tug on your heart strings, so you feel sympathy for them.
It's not like he left his white supremacist life behind as a small boy, he was a full grown man and still spouting hate.
Then, in an amazing stroke of luck, he decided to stop that and get into the canna industry.
It's always felt like it was a PR move, rather than the much vaunted and sincere change of heart.

If his genetics were still the excellence they were formally I would not care if he assassinated the Pope. Surly everyone can support or not support anyone or anything they want. For instance I wouldn't care if Subfool had the best strain on the planet I would never purchase it as I despise him as a being and am not going to support someone nor something I feel that way about. Not here to bash so will also add that because of Arjan I will never purchase nor grow GREENHOUSE ever. So I get where you are coming from. As there are no reef seeds anywhere anymore it should prove very easy for you to not support him. This current incarnation is just name hyping for your dirty $$$'s and not worth it to anyone to test them. I mean their pricing structure indicates they are all about the Almighty Dollar so doubtful their energies are spent on reliable outstanding breeding practices but rather name milking for hype sales. New Neville crosses. Yeah right.

Bad Karma said:

Jogro,

As for the part about the church it was originally in a post by Brick Top. (source post #66 https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/425500-mr-nice-ssh-sannies-7.html)


As for Reeferman, I don't trust him, I have a hard time believing that he's had a full change of heart.
The mark of any good con is to have details that tug on your heart strings, so you feel sympathy for them.
It's not like he left his white supremacist life behind as a small boy, he was a full grown man and still spouting hate.
Then, in an amazing stroke of luck, he decided to stop that and get into the canna industry.
It's always felt like it was a PR move, rather than the much vaunted and sincere change of heart.

Click to expand...

You heard it from bricktop, that says it all right there! That dude always posts(ed) things that were his opinion mostly supported by others opinions.

Bad Karma said:

Jogro,

As for the part about the church it was originally in a post by Brick Top. (source post #66 https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/425500-mr-nice-ssh-sannies-7.html)

Click to expand...

This is hearsay, period.

Bricktop making an on its face ridiculous claim with no evidence to support it is no different than you repeating it uncritically.

Again, where exactly is this "Racist Church of Christ in Israel", and how can a Canadian who has never lived in Israel be the head of it? This doesn't seem even the slightest bit far-fetched to you?

I'm willing to entertain this if you show me some evidence. . .so far you've got nothing.

As for Reeferman, I don't trust him, I have a hard time believing that he's had a full change of heart.

Click to expand...

Since you've quite clearly never actually met the guy, nor spoken to him, let alone known him 20 years ago as a teenager, or today as an adult, how on earth could you possible know what's in his heart or how its changed?

It's not like he left his white supremacist life behind as a small boy, he was a full grown man and still spouting hate.

Click to expand...

Yeah, a lot of 11 year olds just up and leave their families.

Again, how would you know what exactly he's "spouted"? Show me a single scrap of evidence that the guy has said or done anything racist, and I'll take it all back.

Then, in an amazing stroke of luck, he decided to stop that and get into the canna industry.
It's always felt like it was a PR move, rather than the much vaunted and sincere change of heart.

Click to expand...

Its one thing not to believe his story, but at least cite it correctly (hint. . .you aren't).

In the meantime, I've seen more prejudice from you in this thread than I've seen yet from Reeferman himself.

Kite High said:

If his genetics were still the excellence they were formally I would not care if he assassinated the Pope..

Click to expand...

Right, so these are different questions.

a. Are any of Reefermans' current genetics worth growing? And. . .
b. Is the guy a racist?

My answer to both questions is actually the same: I have no evidence that his current genetics are worth growing, and no evidence that the guy is a racist.

Lacking such evidence, I take the default positions.

With so much legitimately great gear out there by various breeders now, in my view there is simply no good reason for me to take a chance on Reeferman genetics. If I see something that convinces me they're worthwhile, I might, but not until then. Likewise, until I see some evidence that the guy actually is a racist (not merely hearsay) I'll take him at his word that he no longer subscribes to White Supremacist belief.

As to the others I also have a mental list of breeders I won't buy from. Its not based on their personal beliefs (bluntly, I dont know these guys personally, and wouldn't presume to know what they believe), but rather on their business practices. There are at least a few who I know have "behaved badly" in terms of engaging in deceptive, unprofessional, or unethical business practices, and once someone does that, I won't buy from them. With so many truly excellent breeders who are also excellent in terms of customer support out there, there is simply no reason to do so.

As an example, and without naming names, I've read a thread where some grower was complaining about a particular line a breeder put out. The breeder in question actually took the time to post in person and respond to the complaints. However, instead of trying to address the actual issues with the grow, this breeder actually started berating the grower (ie HIS CUSTOMER), calling him names, etc. Honestly, I couldn't believe I was witnessing the behavior of an adult business owner in a public forum. Even if the grower was a little bit out of line in terms of how he voiced his complaint, the response was WAY over the top, and this is simply not someone I feel comfortable doing business with.

Jogro said:

Right, so these are different questions.

a. Are any of Reefermans' current genetics worth growing? And. . .
b. Is the guy a racist?

My answer to both questions is actually the same: I have no evidence that his current genetics are worth growing, and no evidence that the guy is a racist.

Lacking such evidence, I take the default positions.

With so much legitimately great gear out there by various breeders now, in my view there is simply no good reason for me to take a chance on Reeferman genetics. If I see something that convinces me they're worthwhile, I might, but not until then. Likewise, until I see some evidence that the guy actually is a racist (not merely hearsay) I'll take him at his word that he no longer subscribes to White Supremacist belief.

As to the others I also have a mental list of breeders I won't buy from. Its not based on their personal beliefs (bluntly, I dont know these guys personally, and wouldn't presume to know what they believe), but rather on their business practices. There are at least a few who I know have "behaved badly" in terms of engaging in deceptive, unprofessional, or unethical business practices, and once someone does that, I won't buy from them. With so many truly excellent breeders who are also excellent in terms of customer support out there, there is simply no reason to do so.

As an example, and without naming names, I've read a thread where some grower was complaining about a particular line a breeder put out. The breeder in question actually took the time to post in person and respond to the complaints. However, instead of trying to address the actual issues with the grow, this breeder actually started berating the grower (ie HIS CUSTOMER), calling him names, etc. Honestly, I couldn't believe I was witnessing the behavior of an adult business owner in a public forum. Even if the grower was a little bit out of line in terms of how he voiced his complaint, the response was WAY over the top, and this is simply not someone I feel comfortable doing business with.

Click to expand...

I really am impressed with Sannies Ace Seeds Cannabiogen and Positronics seeds for the gear and their customer service and good natured spirit. Female Seeds is also really good and Francine is solid ad they come and their c99,is to die for c

colocowboy said:

You heard it from bricktop, that says it all right there! That dude always posts(ed) things that were his opinion mostly supported by others opinions.

Click to expand...

I'm not going to rag on Bricktop since I don't think he's posting here anymore, and can't defend himself, but I'll say we had differing opinions in the past.

I have no idea why he thinks or thought Reeferman is the leader of some church. Maybe he has/had a good reason, maybe he doesn't.

But either way, in this particular case, its simply not a question of opinion.

Either Reeferman *IS* the leader of a particular church, or he isn't. There is no "in-between" here, and this is not a subjective thing where judgment is required to tell the difference.

Note that being a member of a church, or visiting one are all totally different things. One time I sat in on a mass in St. Patrick's Cathedral. . .that doesn't make me the Pope!

Bricktop was a bonehead and couldn't defend himself when he was posting here, hahahahah
You know me, I'll argue and concede (reluctantly) a point but I could not find common ground with him.

It would seem prudent to do bit of research, or better yet bite your tongue, before spreading information that is defamatory in nature. $.02