Right VS Left

tom__420

Well-Known Member
Look who's talking, mr. I'm better than you, I'm rich, you're stupid and BTW you really don't belong on RIU, Mr. elite himself. Talk about taking too many Bong hits. When you drift back to earth, maybe you'll be able to see that just like me, you are human, well maybe not, maybe you are really some alien being. Seems like you are on a different planet than I.
All you do is argue with others on the politcal forum, you give nothing positive to the site
I have never seen you post in the other parts of the forum not even one time
This is a marijuana growing site dude, YOU are the one who doesn't belong on rollitup
Go on over to one the three sites I linked, there is prob plenty of people like you over there
 

swazifarmer

Well-Known Member
I think people should believe in the theories but don't polarize yourself with leftist or rightist agenda's is a silly mistake, one should make up there own mind on what's good for the country or world I used to be a socialist but the ideals of socialism are loose and won't work within a capitalist society which we live in.

In America the divide is big but in politics there's no real divide between right and left which you'll find everywhere, look at the labour party in England to the ANC in South Africa it's all become very central or centre-left or centre-right.
 

medicineman

New Member
All you do is argue with others on the politcal forum, you give nothing positive to the site
I have never seen you post in the other parts of the forum not even one time
This is a marijuana growing site dude, YOU are the one who doesn't belong on rollitup
Go on over to one the three sites I linked, there is prob plenty of people like you over there
Dude, it's politics. Why don't you go back to the grow part and get your grow on. I don't come over to the grow part and give anyone crap. Grow the fuck up, dude. I did a grow op a couple a years ago, posted pics etc. I quit growing, so now I should leave?
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Didn't he run based on pulling troops out. I guess my memory isn't that great. Don't forget marijuana affects your short term memory.

I haven't smoked any marijuana in several months :mrgreen:

He ran on pulling troops out of IRAQ, and sending additional troops to Afghanistan (at least two brigades, which has HAS DONE).
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Politics are like religion, they only work if you have faith in them and believe. There is no such thing as a person that believes in all demo or all rep values. It's a melting pot theses days, just like our people. Or maybe a big chopped and tossed salad, because we realized that we don't have to melt together but rather just incorporate our lovely differences in order to taste better. Being wealthy is not enough for you to call yourself right-winged and an authority on all things political. And being middle class or less educated does not give you the right to say that you have a better understanding of what the people really want. We happen to have a pretty decent government comparatively speaking. We are fortunate to live in this country and have the right to be part of the decision making process. We are all unique individuals and most of us like to think that we are well informed when in truth most of our opinions are based on media coverage that sways. We depict things in the light of our choice. Reading how people refute each other politically in the RIU forum is laughable. If you want to change something, change it. And I would like to point out that this country and it's people have for sure made changes over the past 20 years. We are a much more open and accepting people than we were 20 years ago. We are a young country and our culture has little experience nor model to base our direction off of. I will say it again, if you don't like what's happening politically then make the decision to be the difference. Then you can post about that, what YOU are doing to make a difference. Find a personal solution for yourself and find a way to be happy. This is the second time I have witnessed finger pointing in these forums. It is more constructive to hear what others are saying when they present their opinions and then informatively respond. If we listened to each other, perhaps we'd learn something we didn't already know about our differences. Judging each other is just silly. I thought you had to be at least 18 to join Rollitup.
p.s.
Bubble for life, no tag backs, I'm rubber and you're glue whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you AND I'm crossing my fingers for extra protection
.
I mean really...?

LMFAO!! :clap: I literally just choked on my sandwich reading that.

That's how I feel every time I post something here... call me a masochist, I just can't stay away.
 

Sidewinder73

Active Member
I haven't smoked any marijuana in several months :mrgreen:

He ran on pulling troops out of IRAQ, and sending additional troops to Afghanistan (at least two brigades, which has HAS DONE).
Troops in iraq have been rotated, but not pulled out. Sorry to hear you haven't smoked in months.

Can I ask if you support the war in Afghanistan?

PS. After Combat ends in iraq Obama has decided to leave 50,000 troops behind for security. Sounds like more combat to me. I guess it just depends how you paint the picture.
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Troops in iraq have been rotated, but not pulled out. Sorry to hear you haven't smoked in months.

Can I ask if you support the war in Afghanistan?

PS. After Combat ends in iraq Obama has decided to leave 50,000 troops behind for security. Sounds like more combat to me. I guess it just depends how you paint the picture.

I didn't say he had pulled troops out of Iraq, I said he ran on the promise of doing so (after you insinuated that he ran on a promise of pulling troops from Afghanistan - which he most certainly did not).

No, I don't support any war. Period.

I haven't smoked because I choose not to. There's nothing to be sorry about.
 

undertheice

Well-Known Member
nice to see you're back to your old tricks, med. the "right" of your imagination surely does exist, but to consider it the majority or even a significant minority is nothing more than your own ego at work.
1.Right against any change in medical status-left wants single payer.
since this seems to be the driving force behind this entire thread, why don't we look at what a single payer system really does? it places the power of a major chunk of our economy squarely in the laps of the political elite. it takes the money and power from those who are able to pay and hands it to bureaucrats to dole out as they see fit. taking the profit motive out of medicine might seem a dandy way to reduce costs, but what about all the things those profits were supporting? if government run health insurance is run in the same manner as medicare, refusing payment whenever possible and rationing out what they will pay with an eyedropper, we can expect drastic cut backs in both medical research and the expansion of medical facilities. without private insurers to make up the difference for those penny pinching bureaucrats, quality care may become a thing of the past and all those medical advances the current system has invested in will come to a screeching halt.

the notion that single payer could ever be self-sustaining is a blatant lie designed to ease the conscience of its proponents. no government run organization has ever been self-sustaining. to support a seemingly endless line of bureaucrats, cost cutting measures such as reduced service and substandard performance are always tried, but they are never enough to pay for the gross inefficiency of everything the state turns its hand to. bowing to the demands of special interest groups and the necessities of political life, mediocrity reigns and the taxpayers are always the ones to tighten their belts as civil servants continue to get fat. the growth of government does not add to the growth of the nation's economy, it weakens the fabric of the private sector and, as those programs fail to meet their objectives and demand further revenue from the people, drains the vitality of a free market.

there is no doubt that some things must change in the way we run america's health care, but the destruction of an entire industry seems the foolishness of ignorant daydreamers and power hungry politicians. it is possible to lower the cost of care, make insurance more affordable and do away with many of the abuses that, though not as commonplace as we are led to believe, do occur. none of that is likely if we allow government's heavy hand to start mucking about with medicine and its adjuncts. i'm sure that those who hate the capitalist system would love to see us take another step down the road to its destruction, but those fools haven't the foresight to see where that leads and they seem to lack the sense of history that makes the destination apparent.

2.Right wants to expand war, kill the bastards-left wants to bring the troops home.
it has already been pointed out that a majority of our wars have been started by the party toward the left, but the idea that either end of the spectrum want to see such carnage is a gross oversimplification. the reasons given for our various military fiascoes run the gamut, but the underlying impetus is always ideological expansion. the money involved isn't all that important to those players, it is the power to be gained by bringing another nation in line with their world view. left or right, they all crave that power and will do most anything to attain it. claiming that all hawks are on the right undoubtedly makes you feel better about your ideology, but it ignores history and the entire mindset behind our political animals.

3.Right wants to keep all their money-left wants to provide for the common good, IE make sure everyone is fed, has shelter, and healthcare.
your robin hood complex is showing. it must be nice to stand there on the moral high ground and spit on the wealthy you so envy. from that altitude i guess you can't see the millions upon millions of dollars that are given each year as charitable donations, much of it by those righties you detest, to care for the poverty stricken and indigent. it seems that it isn't giving that they despise, it's paying for a bureaucracy that gives them no say in how that money is spent and that takes the lion's share to prop up their little fiefdoms. surprise; with very few exceptions, no one wants to see needless death and pointless despair. except for a few sociopaths, we would all like to see the destitute gainfully employed and capable of living without the need for charity (government or otherwise). the expansion of the welfare state isn't going to do that. government handouts aren't going to do it. penalizing the productive can only bring a few more of them into the ranks of the needy. so how is it that the liberal establishment's give-aways are going to do anything more than stave off the inevitable?

government is not a charitable institution. its prime duty is to allow the people to do as they see fit and keep them from ripping each other apart. the ponzi scheme that is the welfare state does nothing more than create a dependent class that drains the productive to no particular end and enriches the middle man. we have been told that this is a necessity because the rich are greedy mother fuckers and the poor are downtrodden victims. you, along with a substantial percentage of the population, have taken this indoctrination to heart and, in the process, have handed those middle men the keys to the kingdom. ignoring what good the private sector can do, you want to place all our eggs in the government's basket and, from behind a curtain of privilege, allow them to dole it all out as they see fit. well you can do as you please with what is yours, but i would like to know that what i choose to give away is going toward something that helps build society and so would most reasonable people.

.....there are plenty of crooks in the congress and white house. #1 cause, lobbyists.
no amount of money or power can corrupt an honest man and we obviously have very few of those available for public service. i realize that blaming lobbyists alone for the corruption of government allows you to place the entire burden on big business and whichever special interest groups you wish to demonize, but there had to be a hand out in the first place or there would be no place for the pay off to go. lobbyists are certainly complicit in the enslavement of the people, but they are merely filling a niche in the bureaucratic marketplace. time and again i've asked the simple question, "where does the sin lie?", and it is obvious that you should have added difference #4, the left wishes to blame our woes on business and the right sees the corruptibility of our representatives as the worst of the problem.

Generally speaking, the right is well off, and the left is poor, or less than well off.
so it's greed that makes every thing happen? the greed of the rich, wanting to keep what they have, and the greed of the poor, grasping for what others have earned. why is it that the greed of the rich, even those who donate faithfully to worthwhile causes, is so much worse than its counterpart amongst the poor? your "left" seems infatuated with greed and more than willing to scapegoat anyone for the sake of their agenda.
 

medicineman

New Member
nice to see you're back to your old tricks, med. the "right" of your imagination surely does exist, but to consider it the majority or even a significant minority is nothing more than your own ego at work. since this seems to be the driving force behind this entire thread, why don't we look at what a single payer system really does? it places the power of a major chunk of our economy squarely in the laps of the political elite. it takes the money and power from those who are able to pay and hands it to bureaucrats to dole out as they see fit. taking the profit motive out of medicine might seem a dandy way to reduce costs, but what about all the things those profits were supporting? if government run health insurance is run in the same manner as medicare, refusing payment whenever possible and rationing out what they will pay with an eyedropper, we can expect drastic cut backs in both medical research and the expansion of medical facilities. without private insurers to make up the difference for those penny pinching bureaucrats, quality care may become a thing of the past and all those medical advances the current system has invested in will come to a screeching halt.

the notion that single payer could ever be self-sustaining is a blatant lie designed to ease the conscience of its proponents. no government run organization has ever been self-sustaining. to support a seemingly endless line of bureaucrats, cost cutting measures such as reduced service and substandard performance are always tried, but they are never enough to pay for the gross inefficiency of everything the state turns its hand to. bowing to the demands of special interest groups and the necessities of political life, mediocrity reigns and the taxpayers are always the ones to tighten their belts as civil servants continue to get fat. the growth of government does not add to the growth of the nation's economy, it weakens the fabric of the private sector and, as those programs fail to meet their objectives and demand further revenue from the people, drains the vitality of a free market.

there is no doubt that some things must change in the way we run america's health care, but the destruction of an entire industry seems the foolishness of ignorant daydreamers and power hungry politicians. it is possible to lower the cost of care, make insurance more affordable and do away with many of the abuses that, though not as commonplace as we are led to believe, do occur. none of that is likely if we allow government's heavy hand to start mucking about with medicine and its adjuncts. i'm sure that those who hate the capitalist system would love to see us take another step down the road to its destruction, but those fools haven't the foresight to see where that leads and they seem to lack the sense of history that makes the destination apparent.

it has already been pointed out that a majority of our wars have been started by the party toward the left, but the idea that either end of the spectrum want to see such carnage is a gross oversimplification. the reasons given for our various military fiascoes run the gamut, but the underlying impetus is always ideological expansion. the money involved isn't all that important to those players, it is the power to be gained by bringing another nation in line with their world view. left or right, they all crave that power and will do most anything to attain it. claiming that all hawks are on the right undoubtedly makes you feel better about your ideology, but it ignores history and the entire mindset behind our political animals.

your robin hood complex is showing. it must be nice to stand there on the moral high ground and spit on the wealthy you so envy. from that altitude i guess you can't see the millions upon millions of dollars that are given each year as charitable donations, much of it by those righties you detest, to care for the poverty stricken and indigent. it seems that it isn't giving that they despise, it's paying for a bureaucracy that gives them no say in how that money is spent and that takes the lion's share to prop up their little fiefdoms. surprise; with very few exceptions, no one wants to see needless death and pointless despair. except for a few sociopaths, we would all like to see the destitute gainfully employed and capable of living without the need for charity (government or otherwise). the expansion of the welfare state isn't going to do that. government handouts aren't going to do it. penalizing the productive can only bring a few more of them into the ranks of the needy. so how is it that the liberal establishment's give-aways are going to do anything more than stave off the inevitable?

government is not a charitable institution. its prime duty is to allow the people to do as they see fit and keep them from ripping each other apart. the ponzi scheme that is the welfare state does nothing more than create a dependent class that drains the productive to no particular end and enriches the middle man. we have been told that this is a necessity because the rich are greedy mother fuckers and the poor are downtrodden victims. you, along with a substantial percentage of the population, have taken this indoctrination to heart and, in the process, have handed those middle men the keys to the kingdom. ignoring what good the private sector can do, you want to place all our eggs in the government's basket and, from behind a curtain of privilege, allow them to dole it all out as they see fit. well you can do as you please with what is yours, but i would like to know that what i choose to give away is going toward something that helps build society and so would most reasonable people.

no amount of money or power can corrupt an honest man and we obviously have very few of those available for public service. i realize that blaming lobbyists alone for the corruption of government allows you to place the entire burden on big business and whichever special interest groups you wish to demonize, but there had to be a hand out in the first place or there would be no place for the pay off to go. lobbyists are certainly complicit in the enslavement of the people, but they are merely filling a niche in the bureaucratic marketplace. time and again i've asked the simple question, "where does the sin lie?", and it is obvious that you should have added difference #4, the left wishes to blame our woes on business and the right sees the corruptibility of our representatives as the worst of the problem.

so it's greed that makes every thing happen? the greed of the rich, wanting to keep what they have, and the greed of the poor, grasping for what others have earned. why is it that the greed of the rich, even those who donate faithfully to worthwhile causes, is so much worse than its counterpart amongst the poor? your "left" seems infatuated with greed and more than willing to scapegoat anyone for the sake of their agenda.
Geeze Under, I didn't know you cared, Yes it is greed that fuels capitalism and it is a dying breed. Just like all the other systems that came before, it will dissapear. It may take a revolution, when the people wake up, or it may collapse inward upon itself. Capitalism is now so far in debt that one wonders how it can survive. The rich have pulled all the capital out and left a growing debt, guess what, they gave the debt to the people. isn't capitalism great.
 

budsmoker87

New Member
wtf? how could anybody call our economy capitalism, when it revolves around a central bank?

we haven't had true capitalism in America in a very long time
 

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
wtf? how could anybody call our economy capitalism, when it revolves around a central bank?

we haven't had true capitalism in America in a very long time

Huh? Since when is the definition of capitalism dependent on what kind of banking system a country has?
 

budsmoker87

New Member
capitalism: an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth

as the definition states, capitalism is synonymous with free market enterprise, which doesn't exist with the existence of subsidies and taxes

a capitalist society does not revolve around a system based on debt...as does our federal reserve system
 

budsmoker87

New Member
also important to remember that the most prosperous period of american history- the industrial revolution- occured at a time when private business (the FED) and the public sector didn't work together to enforce the regulations of a central banking system. this is when we had "capitalism" and we thrived
 

medicineman

New Member
also important to remember that the most prosperous period of american history- the industrial revolution- occured at a time when private business (the FED) and the public sector didn't work together to enforce the regulations of a central banking system. this is when we had "capitalism" and we thrived
Who in the fuck is "WE"? Yeah a few greedy ass robber barons and their offspring.
 

budsmoker87

New Member
get fuckin real med, would ya? the distribution of wealth was MUCH more egalitarian back then


all commodities weren't in the hands of a few wealthy individuals, as is the case today. the agricultural industry and pharma are just two examples. our banking system is designed to wipe out the middle class, so why don't you redirect your anger towards that instead of your silly fuckin right/left arguments
 

medicineman

New Member
Here's what I dislike about capitalism, in a word, capitalists. It starts out great, an ambitious soul scrapes some money together, (Usually from parents) and starts a small business. He works hard and gets lucky and his business prospers. In the beginning he treated his employees like one of the family, but as the buasiness grew and he prospered, he distanced himself from the employees more and more so they wouldn't notice how much he was prospering, probably so they wouldn't ask for a raise. Now that he is wealthy, he becomes even more greedy and tries to cut costs in any way possible, usually meaning to cut labor costs. He has now become a capitalist prick. in my vocabulary, capitalists and dickheads are equal. What about those loyal employees that started with him, in a word he says, fuck you. This is the general thesis of capitalism, I've got mine, fuck you.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
1.Right against any change in medical status-left wants single payer
Not true, The right wants more competition not less.
The right wants to lower cost through market action.
The left wants government to do it for them.
When has the government ever lowered costs on anything?

2.Right wants to expand war, kill the bastards-left wants to bring the troops home.
Where are the leftist anti-war protesters protesting the proposed expansion of 40k+ troops into Afganistan
Why do the Dems vote consistantly to support the war while railing against it.
Where is the left on "special rendition" its still going?
Secret Prisons remember all that Obama still doing it.
Why do people like Bush get elected (in 2000) for " No Nation Building, No Policing the world."
The Anti-War people now are mostly on the right. Obama has managed to silence the Left Anti-War groups.
The Left has no intention of bringing ANYONE home, only the Far Right does.

3.Right wants to keep all their money-left wants to provide for the common good, IE make sure everyone is fed, has shelter, and healthcare.
The Right wants us all to keep our Money. The Right wants to protect your time and property.
There is no such thing as "Common Good" we are not cogs in a machine.
We are all individuals with the will and skill to do for ourselves.
To provide for the common good would be to open oppurtunity for everyone to reach their maximum potental.
Not to shackle mankind with smothering "do-gooder-ism."
The Right inbraces giving not forced extraction.
(only the far right not so-called moderates or Neo-Cons)

However, There is no diffrence both parties are owned and controled by bankers.
Who just love the Welfare/Warfare state.
They just love lending money to government
for your Wars and your Cash for clunkers
and your wall street bail-outs
and every other unconstitutional program you can dream up.
They get loads of cash and don't get the blame.
They don't have to kick in your doors to get payment.
You will hire the thugs to kick in your own doors.
Greatist scam ever.
 
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