Right VS Left

Sidewinder73

Sidewinder73

Active Member
doobnVA said:
Um, no. The democratic party's ideology has changed very little since its inception. The only thing that HAS changed, is the presence of right-wing radicals such as yourself who seize upon any opportunity to attempt pejoration of the democratic label.

Democrats are not socialists. If they were, they'd join the SOCIALIST party and cease to be Democrats.
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Programs run by the government are labeled "social" for a reason. Hence Social Security. Dems/liberals are trying to rename bills to separate themselves from what they truly are, socialists. Let's call it national health care, but the bottom line is it is social health care. Let's free ourselves from these limitations and grow as a group of unified people who are not dependent on the gov't. Do not fall prey to these social programs that will only hold our population down by allowing people to become more dependent than they already are. As a group we need to fight for our independence, which once upon a time we fought for. Do not forfeit our freedom.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Rob Roy said:
How about a pool of shit? We throw all the candidates in and which ever one floats to the top we annoint as elected?
Oh wait we already do that.

A government of, for and by the people would be a town meeting style where each person is their own representative. Even that fails as truly representing "everyone" since some people might decline to participate or be in a minority should a group vote occur.

Majority rule, is not representative of everyone and can be quite oppressive to those wishing not to be ruled.
We have never had a "self governing" country, just the illusion through majority mandates that all people are represented.

That leaves me to believe that Voluntaryism, or self ownership is a natural answer. You and others like you form whichever cooperatives you'd like.
Call it government or what ever you like.

Under Voluntaryism. I'll leave you alone as long as you leave me and others alone that wish not to be "represented". You get what you want, the ability to pool resources and be part of a system you'd like. People like me aren't forced to join, or fund, or use your system. We get what we want, the ability to be left alone and live our lives peacfully.

The only thing stopping Voluntaryism from working is that some busy bodies can't conceive of leaving other peaceful people alone. Busy bodies are so sure of their ideas and how others should run their lives they will use the power of the gun to enforce their will over others all the while declaring their idea as "for your own good". Shameful, intrusive and violent, but that is government
for you.
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What a load of crap. you want it your way or the highway, I say take a hike, go be on your own. I know, I'd sure leave you alone to sit and count your money, but don't drive on any government road, use any GPS or other government provided services. Yeah a one man island, aren't you just the cats meow.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
His wealth should be his own..... why do you think ur entitled to any of it?

Community work always outperforms govt. programs.... no brainer there. He's got a good idea.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Sidewinder73 said:
Programs run by the government are labeled "social" for a reason. Hence Social Security. Dems/liberals are trying to rename bills to separate themselves from what they truly are, socialists. Let's call it national health care, but the bottom line is it is social health care. Let's free ourselves from these limitations and grow as a group of unified people who are not dependent on the gov't. Do not fall prey to these social programs that will only hold our population down by allowing people to become more dependent than they already are. As a group we need to fight for our independence, which once upon a time we fought for. Do not forfeit our freedom.
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Uhhhhhh, what part of Democrats aren't socialists is so hard to understand?

There's an ACTUAL socialist party they could join, if they were so inclined. That would make them SOCIALISTS, and not democrats.


"Social security" is not named so as some kind of tribute to socialism. Programs run by the government are called "social" for a reason, but NOT for the reason you're implying.

SOCIAL:

of or pertaining to the life, welfare, and relations of human beings in a community:

SOCIAL SECURITY... hmm....
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
A government of, for and by the people would be a town meeting style where each person is their own representative. Even that fails as truly representing "everyone" since some people might decline to participate or be in a minority should a group vote occur.



That leaves me to believe that Voluntaryism, or self ownership is a natural answer. You and others like you form whichever cooperatives you'd like.
Call it government or what ever you like.



.
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WOW, just... WOW. Hey RobRoy, that system already exists!!! You know what it's called?


SOCIALISM!!!


LMFAO... Jesus Christ you people crack me up.
 
Sidewinder73

Sidewinder73

Active Member
doobnVA said:
Uhhhhhh, what part of Democrats aren't socialists is so hard to understand?

There's an ACTUAL socialist party they could join, if they were so inclined. That would make them SOCIALISTS, and not democrats.


"Social security" is not named so as some kind of tribute to socialism. Programs run by the government are called "social" for a reason, but NOT for the reason you're implying.

SOCIAL:

of or pertaining to the life, welfare, and relations of human beings in a community:

SOCIAL SECURITY... hmm....
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You are so blind it hurts. Enjoy your social security forced upon you by your gov't. After all we as americans cannot save for ourselves. At least give us the option. Sounds like Socialism security. By the way social and socialism are derived from the same root, society.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
since social security is going to bankrupt the nation with or without any more added debt. Dem's would be wise to stop mentioning SS.

It's a total failure to what the govt. said it would do and how much it would cost.

Fail.............
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
CrackerJax said:
since social security is going to bankrupt the nation with or without any more added debt. Dem's would be wise to stop mentioning SS.

It's a total failure to what the govt. said it would do and how much it would cost.

Fail.............
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UUhhhh, I believe around 51 million people would disagree with you, me included.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
What a load of crap. you want it your way or the highway, I say take a hike, go be on your own. I know, I'd sure leave you alone to sit and count your money, but don't drive on any government road, use any GPS or other government provided services. Yeah a one man island, aren't you just the cats meow.
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So you're saying people shouldn't use things they don't pay for? Hmmm. I agree. I'm more than happy to pay for what I use. Where we disagree is you think I should pay for somebody else, right? You think it is YOUR choice to make MY decisions. We disagree there. It isn't my decision to run your life, why are you so intent on running mine?

My way or the highway? Not exactly, I have no objection to you and your ilk pooling your resources. How is that my way or the highway? You are the one insisting I conform to YOUR wishes. I'm all about YOU choosing your path and ME choosing MINE. Get it? Voluntaryism, simple.

Counting my money? I'll try to count that which is left after big brother has extracted his share. Of course each day your beloved government fiat currency shrinks in value, so I'll count metal instead.

Cat's meow? Beatnik lingo?? I'm hep daddio! :blsmoke:
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
doobnVA said:
WOW, just... WOW. Hey RobRoy, that system already exists!!! You know what it's called?


SOCIALISM!!!


LMFAO... Jesus Christ you people crack me up.
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I guess you misinterpreted my post. I'm not sure you understand what Voluntaryism is. I'd explain it to you but, not tonight okay dear? I got a headache. :roll:
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
medicineman said:
UUhhhh, I believe around 51 million people would disagree with you, me included.
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That's because you haven't a clue to the true costs of SS. Ur post reflects that much.

You think a 2% return is sweet huh? My dog can beat a 2% return rate. Oh, and the trillions in debt after the abysmal return performance, that's a heck of a hangover. Another socialist success story!!!!

You want to see a true Ponzi scheme.... look no further than SS.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy said:
I guess you misinterpreted my post. I'm not sure you understand what Voluntaryism is. I'd explain it to you but, not tonight okay dear? I got a headache. :roll:
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LOL.. no, I know what voluntaryism is, but the way YOU described it sounds more like socialism to me.

Just thought it was ironic, is all.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
Why do you bother responding to me? I have you on ignore ever since catching you lying and back editing ur lies..... I've posted several times for you to realize the this has happened.

Just wait for someone else to post..... you seem silly.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
CrackerJax said:
Why do you bother responding to me? I have you on ignore ever since catching you lying and back editing ur lies..... I've posted several times for you to realize the this has happened.

Just wait for someone else to post..... you seem silly.
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Who are you talking to, Jax? Me?

If you are, then you obviously aren't ignoring me, are you, Jax?

I didn't respond to you, Jax, unless Rob Roy is another of your aliases.

Just FWIW, Jax, I respond to your garbage in the off chance that another reader might be considering your "information" credible. I'm here to make sure they see you for what you really are; a troll with multiple aliases who can often be found conversing with himself.

And again, Jax, you never caught me "editing" any lies. I edited ONE post to ADD some clarifying information and you continue to insist that I was somehow "backpedaling" in response to a post of yours.

Sorry, Jax, your posts are all baloney. There's no need for anyone to "backpedal" in response to ANYTHING you and your other aliases say, because it's all garbage.

I've caught you LYING and misrepresenting the facts at least once every single day. I feel it's my civic duty to make sure your garbage is properly refuted and will continue to do so for as long as you continue to post garbage.


EDIT: Ooh, look! I edited this post. I must be "lying"!

RE-EDIT: Because sometimes one edit (or lie... if that's what we're calling editing now) just isn't enough.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Rob Roy is not an alias for Cracker. However, Rob Roy agrees with a good deal of Crackers commentary, especially regarding economics. We seem to differ on things like how/what the United States role in foreign affairs should be. I'm for a smaller military, non intervention etc.

The interesting thing about right vs left, is from my point of view it's a distraction from real discussion and debate.
I believe the pertinent issues are who owns your body, who owns your property and who owns your labor?
My answer is, you, not another person and never a group of people using force against peaceful people under the guise of government and "legality".

Some leftists adopt a libertarian principle when it comes to marijuana use, yet a statist view on forcing people to give up "ownership" of their labor and property. In my view leftists "get it" on pot and are painfully naive and inconsistent on the rest.

The right seems to favor a libertarian point of view regarding small government being good, but often older "conservatives" are neither conservative and don't believe we have the right to our own bodies, again short sighted, contradictory and naive.

The best parts of the left and the right are when they have moments of clarity and adopt libertarian principle, albeit briefly.

You can't make up another persons mind for them, so why not agree to leave them alone as long as they reciprocate?
Nobody ever logically answers that question. Instead rationalizing that they somehow know what's best for another person. Or worse statists employ legal thugs to make you comply. In the end legal or illegal forcing peaceful people to do something is a very weak way of demonstrating justice and morality. Both the right and left do this, both are wrong.
 
CrackerJax

CrackerJax

New Member
A fiscally conservative govt. DOES leave you alone. A fiscally conservative govt. gives everyone the best chance at success.

A fiscally liberal govt. does the exact OPPOSITE. This has been shown to be true over and over again, and yet we must still suffer the fools like Obama & Cronies.

This is what happens when you elect the most liberal Senator with absolutely no business experience .

Since when during a financial crisis do you put the "wet behind the ears apprentice" in charge?
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
No government gives anyone a chance. They can only take chances and choices away. I'll agree that the bigger a government is the worse it is.
 
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